My first issues with the Bible.

reply to post by kid_cudi


im sorry but im a born again christian and this is close to embarrassing for me,
you clearly just said that not everything in the Bible is true, yet you should believe it all anyway?!
The reason why people have been 'bashing' you is because you come off with stuff that doesnt make sense, even from a christianity point of view, you demand and claim that your belief is right! Yet you provide no evidence whatsoever!
By claiming that the Bible is right because it is the word of God doesnt do any good for the people who dont even believe that God exists
Good grief its this kid of thing that would really put me off religion if i hadnt already worked it out myself...

I dont believe one word in the bible.It was just a book written to profit on.Years ago, the local priest comes knocking at the door with a big speech asking for money.I ask him why are you driving a brand new lincoln town car with all the options and a moonroof with a personal driver,knocking at my door with a beat up hyundai looking for money.Wheres the vow of poverty at?Lets get real here.

Originally posted by Jim Scott

Originally posted by agentblue
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

This post begs a deeper explanation...... If nobody was born sinless after Adam and lost the spirit, then Mary was not the sinless young vessel that a lot of people believe..... interesting. So I guess that would be the reason why Jesus refers to Mary a woman and not mother and plus she is only refered to as a vessel of birth. Maybe the angel just set the newly formed Jesus/embryo into the womb and he was not actually half Mary dna and half God dna. I am a christian and never have I subscribed to the Catholocism view of a "holy mary" and we should pray to her. I do believe there is a lot more hidden meanings in the bible than is commonly refered to. I am a christian and it is an honor to God to look at the text and analyze them because it shows a thirst or hunger to search for him. Seek and you shall find. Be wise as serpent and gentle as a dove.

There was no requirement for Mary to be sinless. The body of Jesus was not different from ours. The difference in Jesus was in His Spirit. He had the Spirit of God. Jesus had to be 100% man in the flesh, and 100% God in the Spirit for His sacrifice to be able to cover the sins of all mankind. Mary was a blessed vessel, nothing more. The DNA was created by God, who, of course, created all things. God can do anything He wants. I take it at face value, and I admire Mary but do not worship her. I do think she should be held up as an example to women, but she is not worthy of godhood.

would you not consider mary as a follower of christ?

reply to post by Josephus23
Ooo, that's so intriguing Thank you for sharing that! I'm really interested in seeing what all he has to say about the subject

Originally posted by ChaosComplex
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Leviticus 14:33-47 we would take our own dwellings down brick by brick if we saw so much as a spot of mould on a wall, yeah?

Wasn't sure if anyone looked at it this way (still have about 5 pgs to read thru to catch up lol) but I wonder if that means that if you find 'mold'/imperfection within the Bible during the first read-thru, then 'tear it down' = dismantle the thoughts or understanding that you acquired during the first reading and read through it again. And again. And again. Until there's no mold?

So... if you're doing it right, you'll eventually get to a point where there are no flaws in your understanding, and it makes perfect sense? With every read thru not only are interpretations supposed to get better, but eventually everything will make sense in it thru God-given understanding? [since God can grant understanding to whom He pleases and that power far surpasses the corruption the translations have gone thru over the years]. Just a random thought though.

Originally posted by cody599
Of course the bible, as we know it, is only a translation of a translation of a translation of an interpretation etc. etc etc. All we can read is the edited version of someone elses interpretation. There are in archives many books never released to the masses (IMHO) to keep control of the ignorant masses years ago, and maybe still the same today I'm sure if you believe in God or even if you don't you would assume that He/She/It would want you to have all the facts, maybe in the unreleased volumed we get an explanation of why the bible contradicts itself.I myself believe that we are all part of The Is,God,Nature whatever you choose to name it,and vice versa. Whatever the truth, rest assured you have not been given all the information so the best you can do is quote selected passages from selected books. Who knows ? Maybe the truth is out there in written form from millenia ago but trying to piece it together from less than half a jigsaw will lead to a skewed veiw and a guessing of appears in the final masterpiece. To quote Richard Bach (kinda) Imagine the universe as perfect as is possible (now sit back and actually try this). Be assured the Is did a much better job of it.
I thank you for your time and wish you all well
May angels sleep on your pillows and may your children if you have them be thrice blessed.

I'm sorry, but I have to interject some appreciation for the accuracy of the Bible. As mentioned before in this thread, if you were to take the book of Isaiah and compare it to the Dead Sea Scrolls copy of the book of Isaiah, you would find there were virtually no differences---11 to be exact, and have no effect on the meaning of the verses...simply punctuation, misspelling, or synonyms. Pretty good, wouldn't you say, for copies? A scroll would last about 300 years, so there could be about 5 copies or less between the original and the Gutenberg printing of the Bible. Additionally, there are over 30,000 copies to be compared, and we know for sure we have an accurate copy in the KJV. Other versions, not so. Please refer to Google for differences, for example, between the NIV and the KJV.
Also, as mentioned previously in this thread, the books not put into the Bible NT were judged by a strict criteria (see Google for Nicean Council and how we got the Bible) to be inspired works written by eyewitnesses only. Heretical works were not included. Today, it would be compared to writing history...would you use the National Enquirer or records from historians? Christianity was a threat to existing religions in its beginning, and still is today. Consequently, other religions created texts and false testimonies to denigrate Christianity. Think of it like a computer virus today.

reply to post by BlueShift


lol you would be surprised at how many Roman Catholic hang-ups you Protestants have. I know, I was raised Roman Catholic, became Protestant, and am now Eastern Orthodox. Don't be so quick to judge him. I would invite you both to read the Church fathers and you will see that there are more theological opinions than just those of Blessed Augustine. I had to relearn so many concepts upon my discovery of the Original Eastern Church. Western Christianity is very juridical and it all comes from one theologian: Augustine.

reply to post by ChaosComplex


Elohim is God as power, that is powers : natural as well as übernatural.
IHVH is God as a Self, as such speaking to mankind.

The feeling of being thrown down by the Bible is rather a good sign.

May you achieve your lecture.

reply to post by marsend


Thats the point, survival of the fittest could only help make different breeds, it cant lead to full evolution into a completely different form of creature.

Technological evolution is different altogether and it may well happen, but it wont affect our physical shape or features, the evolution we're talking about doesnt involve artificial help, it has to happen naturally.

Technological advancements dont prove whether natural evolution is possible or ever occured

reply to post by Jim Scott


But if you were to read the Copper Scroll, which was translated by John Allegro, then you would see why it took the Vatican some 40 years before they allowed the release of the translations of the scrolls.

Most of the translations actually do NOT back up the accuracy of the book that was a creation of the Roman Empire.
The Bible.

Originally posted by InnerstellarOne
Its gods will that no man perish, But im pretty sure peter talked about those who tried to live a righteouss lifestyle and tried to live a life of love and truth, Even though they didnt know god or jesus, That they might get caught up at on the outsides of heaven, Not be sent to hell, But put outside to learn about God first, Before they can enter into his kingdom

Its those who choose not to follow him and accept his teachings, who idol worship and practice witchcraft.
To those who also die without hearing the news of christ, Its also sad but the devil is a roaring lion who devoureth who ever he can, and he comes to steal kill and destroy

so...have you ever tried therapy ?

Originally posted by brindle
I dont believe one word in the bible.It was just a book written to profit on.Years ago, the local priest comes knocking at the door with a big speech asking for money.I ask him why are you driving a brand new lincoln town car with all the options and a moonroof with a personal driver,knocking at my door with a beat up hyundai looking for money.Wheres the vow of poverty at?Lets get real here.

Of course, anything can be abused. You may recall that Jesus himself said he had nowhere to lay his head. Tithing is not a Christian principle. It is an Old Testament requirement under Moses, and is no longer even used by modern Judiasm. Christian churches use it to generate funds. Today, we are to only give offerings freely, without requirement. How many Christian churches would be megachurches with a free offering? Probably none. Legalistic "guilt trips" put undue pressure on congregations to produce funds for growth, when in fact there is absolutely no tithing requirement. Original tithing was never money, only crops or animals, and only first fruits. It was only paid to a Levite priest, of which there are none today. Don't let these ministers of wealth confuse you from the true path of Christianity. It's just about love for one another. Jesus himself said that you can tell his true disciples because they have love for one another. Money did not factor into it. Try not to be discouraged, and may God bless you in your search for the truth.

Is anyone doing anything along the lines of compiling similarities between holy texts? Something like showing what is similar between Sumerian, Hopi, Christianity, Hindu, etc...?

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Jim Scott

Originally posted by agentblue
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

This post begs a deeper explanation...... If nobody was born sinless after Adam and lost the spirit, then Mary was not the sinless young vessel that a lot of people believe..... interesting. So I guess that would be the reason why Jesus refers to Mary a woman and not mother and plus she is only refered to as a vessel of birth. Maybe the angel just set the newly formed Jesus/embryo into the womb and he was not actually half Mary dna and half God dna. I am a christian and never have I subscribed to the Catholocism view of a "holy mary" and we should pray to her. I do believe there is a lot more hidden meanings in the bible than is commonly refered to. I am a christian and it is an honor to God to look at the text and analyze them because it shows a thirst or hunger to search for him. Seek and you shall find. Be wise as serpent and gentle as a dove.

There was no requirement for Mary to be sinless. The body of Jesus was not different from ours. The difference in Jesus was in His Spirit. He had the Spirit of God. Jesus had to be 100% man in the flesh, and 100% God in the Spirit for His sacrifice to be able to cover the sins of all mankind. Mary was a blessed vessel, nothing more. The DNA was created by God, who, of course, created all things. God can do anything He wants. I take it at face value, and I admire Mary but do not worship her. I do think she should be held up as an example to women, but she is not worthy of godhood.

would you not consider mary as a follower of christ?

Mary was absolutely a follower of Christ. Early records indicate she helped in the church after His sacrifice.

Originally posted by kid_cudi
What im saying is that the bible was written by many different people at different times! The devil is the one who you wants you to question the bible and the existence of God! If you knew the power of believing in Jesus Christ you wouldn't be saying the things you have said! You are picking and choosing what you want to believe in the bible! That's not right! You must believe everything! And no not everything in the bible is true either! And why do people like to bash and hate on Catholics! We never did anything to anyone! Or is because our knowledge of Christ is superior and we understand our religion and the bible! I'm pretty sure that i am the only that stated my religion on this thread because I'm not afraid what anyone thinks or says!

And you say I'm on the wrong forum! Who are you to tell me that I'm on the wrong forum!

edit on 21-3-2011 by kid_cudi because: (no reason given)

wow I hope you are trolling, "We never did anything to anyone!" you must be joking the hell out of we, so all the crusades, inquisitions, prosecutions, torture, brutality that catholic church did in middle age was nothing?
the ancient popes was more the definition of Antichrist than a religious leader.

Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

But if you were to read the Copper Scroll, which was translated by John Allegro, then you would see why it took the Vatican some 40 years before they allowed the release of the translations of the scrolls.

Most of the translations actually do NOT back up the accuracy of the book that was a creation of the Roman Empire.
The Bible.

I hope I can be of help here. The Dead Sea Scrolls were written by the Essenes, who were a gnostic group not affiliated with Christians, per se. They produced opinions and writings not relevant to modern Christianity. However, they did have an accurate scroll of Isaiah, which is useful to prove the accuracy of the Bible today.

First:
Assuming you really do want to gain something from reading the bible, and are not just seeking a platform to bash it mercilessly, begin by emptying your head of any and all previous traditions you have heard adherents of organized religions articulate regarding what they think the bible means. In particular, recognize that the _last_ person to know what Jesus was really talking about is a Christian. What they know about is what Christianity has taught them Jesus was talking about it --- an extremely relevant distinction which I hope you get.

Second:
Forget about the foolish Christian myth about the bible being the inerrant, literal, Word Of God. Yes, I know every Christian on the planet insists that it is. But, that is just not true. Any sane, rational, ten year old can discover blatantly obvious contradictions in just the first few pages of the bible.

Third:
If you ignore everything else I say, pay attention to this. Okay, are you ready? Are you really listening?. Okay, here is the most important thing I can say about the bible:

The Bible is an imperfect, flawed, image of the perfect, inerrant, Word Of God.

Simply put, what that means is this -- and it would be intuitively obvious if not for the fact that Christians have been shrilly screaming the exact opposite, and often times even killing anyone who dared to offer an opposing point of few, for almost two thousand years ---- The Bible contains ENORMOUS wisdom ... But That Wisdom Has To Be Separated From the many Ridiculously Foolish Traditions Of Men Also Contained Therein.

Even Jesus foresaw that this would occur, which he illustrated in his parable about the wheat and the tares [see Matthew 13:24-30, 36-42].

But the last thing adherents of organized religions want you to figure out is that _they_ are the tares the devil sowed into the same field that Jesus sowed the good seed.

Grok?

Fourth:
There is a God ... but It is nothing like the false god adherents of organized religions have engraven in the image of man. They have given this false idol of theirs, this Abomination of Desolation, the worst of mortal man's emotions [anger, rage, wrath, jealousy, hate, etc.]. They did this purely as a tool to control the masses -- from whence came 'Saint' Constantine's now infamous quote:

By this, Conquer

They have used, and are using, this control construct to convince the coppertops, the sheep, most of whom are clueless as to what is really going on in the world around them, that it is God's Will to 'kill the infidel', and 'bring the evil doers to justice', and 'fight for freedom and democracy', blah, blah, blah,,,

Fifth:
Regarding your questions about Genesis 1:26 ... God is Spirit. Man was made in the image of God. Hence, man is Spirit. The appearance of the plural pronoun 'us' reflects the Truth -- which Christianity absolutely is positively 100% opposed to admitting --- that the Divine Spirit, aka God, is the One who is All. Us, plural, are gods, plural [the All] -- not separate, individual gods -- but integral, indivisible members of the One body of Christ which is spirit, not flesh.

Sixth
God created man as spirit. But, then, man misperceived Self as a body of flesh. Genesis symbolically protrays this as Adam and Eve eating of the fruit of the Tree of Good and Evil. Obviously, there is no literal tree which bears good and evil as fruit. That myth represents man's unfortunately necessary step wherein he had to forget who he was so that, by regaining his Knowledge of Self, he will be better prepared to appreciate who I AM.

Indeed, this misperception that man has, that he is flesh instead of spirit, is the root of all evil. Man steals, kills, rapes, and tortures all because he thinks, in error, that he is flesh and that what is most important in this life is to acquire pleasures of the flesh [land, money, oil, diamonds, nuclear weapons, gold, silver, etc.].

Seventh
The last book of the bible, The Book of the Revelation, similarly symbolizes the journey which man was created to go through --- the journey which Jesus showed by example how to accomplish --- the journey from misperception of I as Son of Man to realization of I as Son of God.

I think you are the Antichrist! I'm done here. I'm gunna take the high road and leave! Peace

reply to post by Josephus23


I seem to recall the Church existing a good 300 years previous to Constantine's conversion. The Gospels and Epistles are also all dated before 100 A.D. Even after that, the Patriarch of Rome was one among equals and had no supreme power over the Church until he overstepped his station and split the Church in half. Anyways, the First Ecumenical Council didn't even decide the Canon, it was just called to decide between Arianism and Trinitarianism. Constantine also didn't preside over the Council, how could he? He was a recent convert and wanted issues of confusion to be resolved so he could be Orthodox in his understanding of the faith.

Having just found this - news.discovery.com... - I have not been able to research and verify it's validity.

Thought I would post it and see what response it got.

Maybe this will help answer who the other parts of us are.

Originally posted by ChaosComplex
Is anyone doing anything along the lines of compiling similarities between holy texts? Something like showing what is similar between Sumerian, Hopi, Christianity, Hindu, etc...?

In almost every case, the Christian texts predate the others in terms of actual ancient copy. Many of these other were rewritten since the Christian texts.