My first issues with the Bible.

Originally posted by ChaosComplex
My point is that there are entirely too many possibilities to settle on one belief set.

Some similarities I have found in a lot of religious texts:
-Beings came from the sky
-These beings were far more powerful and intelligent than anything on this planet.
-knowledge was shared with humans.
-The beings departed, back into the sky, a lot of stories indicate that they will return.

Been following your replies and appreciate your open-mindedness and lack of inflammatory remarks. More members need to take note on how you handle your business here.

But yes, I'm in the same boat. There are too many possibilities for me to feel right subscribing to one.

Humans have so many unanswered questions. I feel like our history has been erased in a lot of ways, and we take what little historical knowledge we have and try to "fill" in the gaps - Often resulting in erroneous conclusions. It's like we have 25 pieces of a 200-piece puzzle (realistically a 10000000-piece puzzle), and instead of looking for the rest of the pieces, we shave off corners of the ones we have in an attempt to MAKE them fit together..

I feel this is what has spawned the foundation for many religions.. (and definitely scientific foundations as well) including modern Christianity. Christianity has a lot of great principles and teachings, and if everyone embraced many of Jesus teachings, the world would be a better place. Does that make the Bible an authority on an entity we can't come close to comprehending? Not really IMO.. but it has a lot of common sense solutions to social issues.

ONE A SIDE NOT: A lot of members fall into the habit of using the "fringe" element of a religion/organization to define the ENTIRE RELIGION - This is wrong. Just because there's a plethora of "crazies" doesn't mean ALL Christians are like this. Most Christians I know are good people - they find fulfillment in their faith and wish to share the thing that gives them so much hope and security. The "fringe" element uses flawed interpretations of the Bible as a means to create control structures, financial opportunities, and/or as a means of power-tripping. Forget these idiots and listen to the more rational ones if you truly seek answers.

Personally, I refuse to commit to a belief system - I develop my own belief system based on personal EXPERIENCE, not the experience of others - therefore, my belief system is constantly evolving and changing as I grow in my understanding of my environment (the planet). Lately, my main issue with the Christian God is this:
If he created us, then he must understand we are creatures of sensory perception - why then would he allow himself to be so elusive to us? I feel like it's a Divine mind-game he's playing, because he expects us to embrace an intangible concept when WE ARE CREATURES OF SENSORY PERCEPTION! We have our senses for a reason, and if he can't interact with us on our level, then I feel no need to give him any attention. Some could argue that Jesus was God in a tangible form, but I haven't met Jesus, spoken to Jesus, or even SEEN a photograph of Jesus - so because I haven't EXPERIENCED JESUS in a tangible form (i.e. any evidence other than the written-word), I cannot accept he is God, or know for a fact he even existed.

The original hebrew translation letter for letter or more precisely character for character is somewhat different from the standard biblical translations. God never say's what he is! He only say's that we are not to have anyone higher, above or greater than him. He is ALL, the beginning and the end, period.
Gods words, decree's not commandents are to be excepted, interpreted, takin in to each individuals self.
One blanket DOGMA is not and cannot be correct. There are 6 billion, more or less people on this planet and there are just as many ways of seeing it. God is here right now as we write these things. He is everywhere.
Jesus, not his correct name! And certainly not jesus christ. or the christ. The christ or crestos or similar spellings are from the greek and other languages for the SUN. Christianity and Catholicism are more pagan then they are followers of gods decrees.
God is with you, in you, everywhere.

reply to post by Disillusioned_Youth


The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing...
Socrates

Originally posted by CleverNameHere
reply to post by ChaosComplex

 

Young Christians do not see the opportunity to spread their faith when others begin to question their beliefs.

Experienced Christians see this as a way to spread the Truth, without bursting your bubble with information you don't want to know.

The best way to spread the Word is by waiting for those who do not know, to ask.

Patience, children of God. Patience.

Amen brother.
Too many people provoke and cast thier pearls before the swine. But some people are just pure wicked.

In the time thats right, God will bring the right people before you who are questioning life and the answer to life, and thats the time to shine!

Originally posted by InnerstellarOne
reply to post by Akragon

 

Im sorry what original texts? carbon dating or the bible?

I never said the bible was rubbish if thats what your subliminally producing?
No one can trust carbon dating, Cause its based on estimates in layers.

My friend, your intentions are good. But you are too arrogant in your approach. Humility, dude. You seem SO certain that you have ALL the answers when really your logic falls short 60% of the time - recognize you don't know as much as you think you do, and then make it a goal to learn AS MUCH as possible so that you seem more credible when defending/explaining your faith.

Science doesn't deny God - science is a means for understanding his creation. Individual SCIENTISTS can deny God, but that has no reflection on the scientific process or advancements in knowledge. And if anything, most scientists aren't out to disprove God - they may use science to elaborate on/update archaic understandings of God and the universe, but you can't scientifically disprove something that can't be physically proven in the first place (as far as we know, God cannot be defined physically).

Science and religion are perfectly compatible, as I see it.

Originally posted by ChaosComplex
****Let me start this by saying I am here to ask questions and learn. I have no intentions of bashing anyone for their beliefs, as I accept all ideas for thought.****

So I decided to start to read the Bible, and already in the first few minutes of reading I have a huge issue.

"1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

"after his kind" makes me think that these creatures were based on creatures that existed somewhere else...

"1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

What? Let US make? In OUR image? After OUR likeness? What the... How can no one have an issue with this?

edit on 3/20/2011 by ChaosComplex because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/20/2011 by ChaosComplex because: (no reason given)

Dear Chaos, I came into this thread a little skeptical but after reading your honest and sincere nature I thought I'd take the time to reply to this query and explain to you what is being said here.

When God was talking obviously he was talking to someone else like him. The Bible tells us that God is a spirit and that he created other spirit beings like himself before creating the earth and the things on the earth. In fact the Bible tells us that God created a son in his image, known as the logos, and by means of this son he created all other things. So we already know that two spirit beings were in existence long before the universe came into being. God and his first angelic creation, the son of God. We also know that the spirit realm consist of not just two spirits but many spirit creatures. The Bible tells us there are spirit creatures called Cherubs, Seraphs, and also messenger angels. All of these angelic spirit creatures make up God's celestial family of spirit creatures and were in existence before man came into existence. In fact the Bible tells us that these angel "sons of God" shouted out in applause at the creation of the earth (See Job 38:1-7 for this account.)

So when he was talking in that scripture you quoted and said "let us make man in our image" was he saying that man himself would resemble God physically? This cannot be the case. The Bible clearly tells us that God is a spirit, a form of life that is on a far higher plane of existence than that of the physical universe. In fact we are told that the heavens, and the heavens of the heavens cannot contain the glory of God. So he resides somewhere outside the physical universe. It is because of him the physical universe came into being. In fact God has forbidden man from trying to make an image that would be representative of him, because humans cannot do so. He also said that no one can look upon his face and live. His radiance and splendor are beyond human imagination.

So how was it that man was shaped in the "image" of his heavenly Father who created him? What differentiates him from all the other animals of the earth? This, in that man was created with the capacity to love, to think, to yearn for justice, to have a spiritual need, to have a moral conscious. All of these make us closer to God than the animals. We have a moral sense of right and wrong, we have the capacity to love those who hate us, we have a sense of righteous indignation when we see unfair evil perpetuated by bad people, all of these traits are a reflection of how our heavenly Father feels. In this respect we are created in his image, and the image of his other angelic creation. And we are also given freewill in order that we may serve Jehovah not out of forced servitude but out of a heart full of appreciation and love for our loving God who loves us so much.


To help you in your honest and sincere search for the truth I will leave you with these scriptures that you may do further research into your answer. These scriptures verify all that was written above:

John 4:24; Proverbs 8:22-31; Colossians 1:15; 16; Ezekiel 10:7; 2 Chronicles 2:6; Exodus 33:20

all i can say is, beware of converters...

I am all about personal choice. If you want to believe that there is a unifying entity that will guide your spirit to paradise then go for it. As long as morality stays in place I see nothing wrong with religion. As far as the bible is concerned I don't view it as sacred text. Considering how many times it has been rewritten and translated it's difficult to imagine it staying in a pure form through all this time. I do appreciate the "fear of god" mentality it puts into people to force morality onto them.

A fool says in his heart he knows all things.
But the wise knoweth nothing.

The worship of pagan idols, earth, Trees, animals, Rocks, Waters, Fish, stars, planets, The moon, The sun, Jupiter, fire, food, sex, ALL OF THESE are pagan worshiping.

The SUN is not the son of GOD, and he does not set after 3 days on the equinox and rise again, That zeigiest rubbish is crap, God is not a sub conciouss thing, He is a real person, His spirit dwells inside, And his name is Jesus.

Jesus was a real man and and walked this earth doing the will of the father. We are not GOD, or GODS

I found great interest in comparing Genesis with ancient Sumerian text. Then I followed how they correspond right up through the Egyptians and the Jews. I know it was kind of an awkward order of study, but I found it very enlightening. I came to the conclusion that the idea of one supreme deity was perverted by the bible to control the masses. A spiritual person needs no book or church to find god within themselves. Throughout history, people that have succeeded in finding this out have been conquered with the most severe atrocities mankind will ever commit.
There really is not as much oppression today coming from catholics and christians (except against natives) so naturally, christianity is on a decline compared to the last 2000 years or so. Most christians know this, but refuse to acknowledge it, so they become very defensive when somebody questions their system of beliefs. At the same time they work to discredit every other belief. Self righteousness is a mask to hide their insecurity and fear. I refuse to fear god. Fear is the mind killer.

The Bible in my opinion was not written just for the layman...

Yes there are stories which you can read and get a moral point from but more so the Bible is meant to be read not from a literal stand point but rather an allagorical, metaphorical and even astrological stand point.

As for the OP's questions..

In our image... Look up the word Elohiem to understand why "Our" was used instead of my.

There is a lot more to the Bible than meets the eye... that does not mean it does not contain elements of truth.
Besides we only need to look at the prophetic side of the bible to know we are living in the end of days...

But then all of the above is just my opinion.

I probably shouldn't even touch on this post but i feel the same way as ChaosComplex

im not bashing the bible, god or anything but the book has flaws. weather it was a typing error, the person copying or interpreting what was said to the paper lots of things don't make sense but im not here to discuss that.

what i am here to say is the Egyptians, Mayans, Indians all have been around as long as we can remember. no matter where you were in the world now or back in the day. in the pyramids of the Egyptians and the Mayans and the walls of caves that the Indians went to have all same similar drawings of ships, great beings that come from above. who is to say god is real or is not real. Look at al the thing the ancient civilizations have and look at what we have. im going more on alians were here before and will again return. unless we were put here because all ther other planets died off and there is nothing else out there.

Hi all. Interesting thread. Ill answear as a brainwashed person, so don´t bothear to call me that way . So, just my questions for reflecting:
1. If God´s name is Jesus, why Jesus say that the Father is greater?
2.If God were Jesus, they would play a piece of theatre, because that means Jesus never died,still his sacrifice is the base of christians teachings.
3.If God is Jesus, why is the hebrew religion named monotheistic?
4.If God is Jesus, why is God called gealous, and that doesn´t accept any rival God?
5.If God is Jesus, whom is praying Jesus before his death?
6.If God is Jesus, why Satan is called the God of this system?(2 Cor.4:4)
7.If God is Jesus, how could Satan tempte God?(The Bible states non one could tempte God)
8.If God is Jesus, why is Jesus called his Son and not His brother?
9.If God is Jesus, why they have different names(Jahweh,Jesus)?
10.If God is Jesus, there is no logic

Sorry for my bad English.
Thanks.

reply to post by InnerstellarOne


Let me get this straight, we CANNOT denounce your god, but you have every right to denounce our beliefs? Not like I care what you and your "god" thinks about me.

Back on topic, the wording is VERY different in which we see today, could have different implications, such as (we as in angels, etc.) as far as the cattle and beasts and what have you being made in "their" kind, to me sounds like the various species... But...then again, who knows?

Originally posted by ag893
Oh my god you must be kidding me!! "After his kind" simply means after the creatures kind of animal group. Reptiles like snakes "after their kind", the big cats "lions, tigers, jaguars" after their kind". Goodness gracious it doesn't take a rocket scientist!!

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

I thought that and in addition I thought it meant cross breading is not allowed out side of species. Its programmed out by someone

reply to post by ChaosComplex


I love to see people finally bring this up. I had a preacher man ask me what I believe over Thanksgiving.. He flat out told me I was wrong. So I downloaded the Bible app for my phone and those two verses from genesis sent me on a whirlwind to prove my belief. Call it a vision quest of some sort, but after, I felt as if I actually were closer to this supreme being everyone calls God. Keep it up, there's more and more interesting tid bits in that holy bible.

S&F

Originally posted by ag893
Were not on God's time. What is 1,000 years to us is very different to the Lord. Were limited in our understanding of God's creation. This is why many people cannot grasp the concept of eternity because it doesn't fit into their little box of thinking.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

True, but time is all relative to how far you are from your sun.. Maybe "eternity" has an orbit that takes 1000 earth years to complete it's orbit?

This is just my take on the Bible so please don’t be offended, I have very little knowledge on the matter.

How can people believe in something that was written by many different people hundreds of years after these events supposedly happened?

Just like today, stories get twisted and content added.

For all we know it can be a big book of Chinese whispers.

Ha.. My first issue with the bible was having people force it down my throat for the first 14 years of my life.

Then I decided it was a contradictory load of crapola.

Then I realised people other than those forcing it down my throat could actually be even more serious about it.

Then I thought "KOO KOO" and concluded that fools and people who need a mental crutch need this religion.

Now, that's not to say a mental crutch is a BAD thing... I mean if you have cerebral palsy, you need support in order to maintain movement... not so dissimilar, except the people with cerebral palsy are cognisant enough to hopefully know baloney from polony...

reply to post by DrCarter
War has a way of destroying libraries, like the library in Alexandria. Many others that I can't recall the names of suffered the same fate. (I believe the history channel did a show that partly covered this. It had something to do with the ancient computer discovered in the Mediterranean).

A lot of these anthropologists, etc, seem to believe that a lot of knowledge was lost that we are just now relearning.

Wish I had more time to research this but unfortunately I don't. Maybe someone else can shed more light on this subject.