Anti-Zionism = Anti-semitism.

Ummm...from my point of view, Zionism is a supremacist ideology that uses golden cows to inhibit criticism...no antisemitism. There are whites and there are white supremacists...see the difference here?

reply to post by Lazarus Short


Goyim is Hebrew for nation. Israel herself is referred to as "Goy Echad" a singular nation. A special nation.

Do you see how words, and repitition of words can carry new and different connotations after awhile?

Zionism refers to Judaism. And it is not ethnic, but religious. Does anyone here understand and respect this distinction? So far. Not many.

Goyim, is a freaking Hebrew word that means nation. Jews are referred to as goyim in some contexts. Do most people know that? Nope. They hear goyim, they hear it said in a pejorative manner, thus goyim is a secret term for the subhuman non-jewish people. Does it actually mean this? Do Jews when they refer to Goyim mean it in a derisive way? Most, do not. Some Xenophobic types, do. I no more support that attitude than i would any other type of racism.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Goyim is Hebrew for nation. Israel herself is referred to as "Goy Echad" a singular nation. A special nation.

Do you see how words, and repitition of words can carry new and different connotations after awhile?

Zionism refers to Judaism. And it is not ethnic, but religious. Does anyone here understand and respect this distinction? So far. Not many.

Goyim, is a freaking Hebrew word that means nation. Jews are referred to as goyim in some contexts. Do most people know that? Nope. They hear goyim, they hear it said in a pejorative manner, thus goyim is a secret term for the subhuman non-jewish people. Does it actually mean this? Do Jews when they refer to Goyim mean it in a derisive way? Most, do not. Some Xenophobic types, do. I no more support that attitude than i would any other type of racism.

edit on 21-3-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

Well, I thought "gentile" was the Hebrew word for "nations." Perhaps I was misinformed, or maybe you are side-stepping. Let's cut to the proverbal chase, shall we? Does the Talmud, or does the Talmud not assert that non-Jews are subhuman? Answer carefully, some of us know more about the Talmud then you may suspect...

reply to post by anumohi


First Point: The US doesn't need to sell nukes to Israel-they've had them for at least 20 years. Ever heard of Mordechai Vanunu? He's still being persecuted for letting that proverbial cat out of the bag.

Second Point: I have nothing against Jewish people or the Jewish people. I am not racist in the least and love my fellow man. I am however anti-zionist and as someone else pointed out, you don't have to be Jewish to be a zionist.

Third Point: Compare this description of Zionism:

There are several different forms of Zionism. From the 1920s until the 1970s, the dominant form was Labor Zionism, which sought to link socialism and nationalism. By the 1920s, Labor Zionists in Palestine established the kibbutz movement, the Jewish trade union and cooperative movement, the main Zionist militias (the Haganah and Palmach) and the political parties that ultimately coalesced in the Israeli Labor Party in 1968.The top leader of Labor Zionism was David Ben-Gurion.

www.merip.org...

With this description:

Nazism (Nationalsozialismus, National Socialism; alternatively spelled Naziism[1]) was the ideology and practice of the Nazi Party and of Nazi Germany.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] It was a unique variety of fascism The term Nazi derives from the first two syllables of Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei[21]. Members of the Nazi Party identified themselves as Nationalsozialisten (National Socialists), rarely as Nazis. The German term Nazi parallels the analogous political term Sozi, an abbreviation for a member of the Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands (Social Democratic Party of Germany).[22][23]

en.wikipedia.org...

Notice any similarities? If not I'll point it out: they are both based on National Socialism. Ironic huh?

reply to post by coyotepoet

who do you think wrote the final solution?????
they needed to get rid of the competition somehow

reply to post by coyotepoet


Could you define for me what zionism is?

The problem is this lack of a definition.

Surely Nazism is definable. It was the GERMAN Nationalist movement. All germans equally subscribed to it. And given Germanys prominence on the world stage in the early 1930s, Nazism warranted attention.

What is zionism. Aggression? Oppression? These are adjectives that can be equally applied to the non-Jewish bulk of world leaders who are decidedly non zionist, and have nothing to do with what zionism suggests.

If we want to pick a word to characterize this fascist movement, why use one that carries Jewish connotations? Thats what my equation of anti-zionism = antisemitism represents. It is completely, and utterly sensible.

We need to redefine what this word means, and what the word itself insinuates. When "zionism" becomes synonymous with an elite cabal that controls the worlds affairs, even though the vast vast majority of elites are non-Jews, this deflects criticism from them, onto the Jews - the majority of which have no knowledge at all of what the establishment Jews do.

Is this not a reasonable complaint? Do the Jews, given their trackrecord, not warrant protection in this way?

reply to post by dontreally

Could you define for me what zionism is?

The problem is this lack of a definition.

What a ridiculous question to ask 5 pages into YOUR thread that's titled by you,

Anti-Zionism = Anti-semitism.

Obviously another poster was correct in saying your reason for this thread was merely to twist definitions and then label people racist..

Oh, and as for connecting Zionism to Nazism.

Lets compare Germany of the 1930s, to Israel.

Germany was considered the world leader in virtually every intellectual field: Technology, Medicine, Philosophy, etc. Germany had one of the strongest economies and was considered the most "progessive" and humanistic culture of that day.

The Germany of 1930 compared to the Israel of today is like comparing the US military to Portugals military. It is not a reasonable comparison. Israel is a world leader in many fields, but still, due to its small size and small population, it cannot reasonably compete economically with the super-powers out there.

To think that the Jews are in any way shape or form, a threat as the Nazis were, is ABSURD. Clinically insane! The Jews have no where near the manpower or the military power to take on neighboring Arab powers. It would be suicide, especially considering the bellicose Muslim mentality.

If you wanted, The charter of the Black Panthers or any other radical left group could meet the same terms of Nazism. Progressivism, or radical liberalism (like a margaret sanger) are as much Nazis as you seem to think the secular zionists are.

Also, and this is relevant to the overall spirit of this thread: The PLO charter doesnt acknowledge the right of a Jewish state to exist. Neither do the constitutions of Hamas or Fatah. None of these groups, 2 of the 3 regarded as "moderate" have any ambition to see a Jewish state in the area.

Look up the Islamic concept of Kaphia. That is, lying through your teeth to achieve an end.

reply to post by dontreally

To think that the Jews are in any way shape or form, a threat as the Nazis were, is ABSURD. Clinically insane! The Jews have no where near the manpower or the military power to take on neighboring Arab powers. It would be suicide, especially considering the bellicose Muslim mentality.

Your assumptions are wrong..
Israel has nukes and are therefore much more threatening than Germany ever was.

And why do you keep swapping words?
Is this paragraph talking about Jews or Israel ??

reply to post by backinblack

Israel has nukes and are therefore much more threatening than Germany ever was.

So does America, Britain, France, Russia, China, India, Pakistan and North Korea..

I would be much more uncomfortable about India and Pakistan, or North Korea, than i would be about Israel.

In anycase, it isnt right to just pick out one group - the Jews (or "Israelis") while ignoring the rest. They are only one among many. If they get anymore than 13 % attention (being 1/9th of the Nuclear power collective) than they are recieving a disproportionate degree of criticism, which at this point becomes strategic manipulation of public opinion (which is obviously occurring to anyone with a working brain).

reply to post by dontreally

So does America, Britain, France, Russia, China, India, Pakistan and North Korea..

Your post was comparing Nazi Germany to Israel..
WTF would you even mention other countries for??
Bit tough when the OP goes off topic..

this is jew mentality and the danger to the world as it currently is and shall remain

The Rothschilds

"The few who understand the system, will either be so interested from it's profits or so dependant on it's favors, that there will be no opposition from that class." — Rothschild Brothers of London, 1863

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

Originally posted by dontreallyTo think that the Jews are in any way shape or form, a threat as the Nazis were, is ABSURD. Clinically insane!

Ask a Palestinian. Ask any of the millions who were murdered by the Jewish Bolsheviks. I could go on.

BTW, you have still not answered my question. I note that you are highly skilled in side-stepping, changing the subject, and always down-playing the Zionist threat, while constantly rattling the Nazi boogeyman. I think you are a sleight-of-hand artist. Do you really think we are all mentally conditioned for that to work?

Stop trying to redefine zionism, even the heavily monitored wikipedia will tell you it is a political movement that has been used in our current understanding since the 19th century. If it was simply a harmless word that people with a true bone against Judaism picked up to brand some nefarious designs to, there wouldn't be the large movement amongst Orthodox Jews against it.

Anti zionism is not the same as anti semitism they are in fact two different animals.

reply to post by WJjeeper


OK How about giving me my own land because my religion says that America was the land chosen for me by my god. Never mind the people living there, they must just give a part of it to me because my religion says so.

How about giving me a blank cheque and military aid to establish and enforce a system of oppression and apartheid.

Americans had much to say about the apartheid in South Africa but do their very best to maintain the status quo in Israel, which has been condemned by the UN and almost every other right minded individual who cares about human rights.

How can America be so critical, being the bastion of democracy and the upholder of human rights when they contribute to a country that flouts international law and any common sense or decency.

Try and look at it objectively and you will see that Israel is a nation of terrorist who does not give a damn about international law or human rights. They believe they have the right to do whatever the hell they want and scream anti-semite as soon as a word is spoken against them. Even going so far as to call other jews anti-semites for daring to speak out against the the atrocities committed by Israel.

Yes the wheel does turn and Israel will have its day for your sake I hope your not part of Israel when it does!!!!

reply to post by dontreally

Could you define for me what zionism is? The problem is this lack of a definition.

To echo another, you're asking this 5 pages into your own post? OK, obviously you didn't read the link I quoted on Labor Zionism. How about different "flavors" of Zionism from the "Middle East Research and Information Project?

A second form of Zionism was the Revisionist movement led by Vladimir Jabotinsky. They earned the name "Revisionist" because they wanted to revise the boundaries of Jewish territorial aspirations and claims beyond Palestine to include areas east of the Jordan River. In the 1920s and 1930s, they differed from Labor Zionists by declaring openly the objective to establish a Jewish state (rather than the vaguer formula of a "national home") in Palestine. And they believed that armed force would be required to establish such a state. Their pre-state organizations that included the Betar youth movement and the ETZEL (National Military Organization) formed the core of what became the Herut (Freedom) Party after Israeli independence. This party subsequently became the central component of the Likud Party, the largest right wing Israeli party since the 1970s.

Although many Jews became Zionists by the early 20th century, until the rise of Adolf Hitler in Germany and the institution of a "Final Solution" to exterminate world Jewry, most Jews were not Zionists. Most orthodox Jews were anti-Zionist. They believed that only God should reunite Jews in the Promised Land, and regarded Zionism as a violation of God's will.

The areas captured and occupied in 1967, especially the West Bank, were important to religious Jews because they are the core of the biblical Land of Israel (Judea and Samaria). Consequently, Israel's victory in 1967 gave rise to a more religious variation of Zionism. Some existing political parties representing orthodox Jews came to embrace religious nationalism, and new parties and movements formed to advocate Israel's permanent control and extensive Jewish settlement in the West Bank and Gaza.

Originally posted by coyotepoet

Dontreally has already defined Zionism several times and he has his mind set so anything you say he will dismiss. He is trolling you guys. It's a wasted effort. If you're smart, you'd abandon this thread. I'm not trying to insult anyone but this is obviously a troll thread.

Just a warning.

Originally posted by demoncleaner
reply to post by WJjeeper

 

OK How about giving me my own land because my religion says that America was the land chosen for me by my god. Never mind the people living there, they must just give a part of it to me because my religion says so.

How about giving me a blank cheque and military aid to establish and enforce a system of oppression and apartheid.

Americans had much to say about the apartheid in South Africa but do their very best to maintain the status quo in Israel, which has been condemned by the UN and almost every other right minded individual who cares about human rights.

How can America be so critical, being the bastion of democracy and the upholder of human rights when they contribute to a country that flouts international law and any common sense or decency.

Try and look at it objectively and you will see that Israel is a nation of terrorist who does not give a damn about international law or human rights. They believe they have the right to do whatever the hell they want and scream anti-semite as soon as a word is spoken against them. Even going so far as to call other jews anti-semites for daring to speak out against the the atrocities committed by Israel.

Yes the wheel does turn and Israel will have its day for your sake I hope your not part of Israel when it does!!!!

im not even gonna reply to that, ive already said everything there is too say. once again its Israels land, the Palestinians needs to get over it and go back to... PALESTEIN.

reply to post by dontreally


11.59 million people died in the Concentration Camps. 53% Jews 47% Non Jews. Every one a tragedy. But to be fair, the Majority of European Jews died. The Majority of Non Jewish Europeans didn't.

"If you want to know who it is who rules you, ask yourself one simple question:'Who is it that I am not permitted to criticize?'"