Shooting down Stealth/F22 and winning the war, page 7
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reply posted on 12-4-2011 @ 10:58 PM by Laxpla
Where are these satellites? In service? Powerful enough? Got further reading on this? Please, I take everything you say with a grain of salt because of how inaccurate the things you were advocating in previous posts and your lack of references and your inability to stand by your opinion on the JASSM/JASSM-ER.

I would argue that high powered optical satellites would have a hard time detecting stealth "if" they are available, especially a B-2 in the presence of night time when the B-2 is most deadly. Even though the B-2 is getting outdated, but still more advanced that any other bomber in the world, the 2018 bomber will have ELO not LO. And Optical Satellites don't have the capability to provide radar lockon, a squadron of F-22's would most likely escort the bomber to wipe out any enemy adversaries in the air.

The best bet of detecting stealth is quantum entanglement radar IMO what Lockheed Martin just patented a couple years back, but that is quite far away from becoming a reality.

And when you make write this "article" up, please make a thorough reference sheet so I can go through in detail what you are saying is correct.

But since you brought other systems into the equation, so will I. The United States would DEMOLISH these satellites while or before a ground strike package is sent in, "if" there are even any jeopardizing the American lives, which I highly doubt.

Its common sense.

Good Day
edit on 12-4-2011 by Laxpla because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 13-4-2011 @ 12:53 AM by Laxpla
Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to
post by mad scientist



You don't need to know where precisely. Plus Darpa didnt think of lots of things. The F22 is basically 20 years old now and it still aint invisible. The DARPA people are not the smartest, I met one DARPA person and not the brightest.


How, and why when you met this person from DARPA did they not give you the essence of them being bright?

Did you work on a project with him?

Most likely (if you even did) meet him, in a social encounter, MANY people from a vast array of fields tend to be socially awkward who excel in engineering, etc.

Such as the case with John Robison who suffers from Asperger syndrome


reply posted on 1-5-2011 @ 02:22 AM by pauljs75
Networked radar is likely to defeat deflective stealth. But in that game of rock-paper-scissors, all one needs to do is fly something with a decent electronic warfare pod on it and jam it. In that case stealth then resumes being undetectable (obscured by the blob of noise from the jamming aircraft), but by then the enemy obviously knows something is up. (More often than not, diplomatic channels have failed and they already know it's hitting the fan. So stealth is somewhat redundant in that regard.)

I think optical guidance and detection systems will be making a comeback. They won't have the range of radar, but you could paint an aircraft with a laser and have the missile home in on that. Some countries like Sweden already have shoulder launched missiles that use this instead of infra-red or radar guidance.

Alternately video guidance and things like object recognition software becoming a lot cheaper will have an impact too. (Computer hobbyists have access to this stuff now, some even being open-source and developed outside the U.S. or falling through the ITAR cracks. No reason why those developing weapons systems wouldn't be able to use them.) If an average person can get hobby software that lets them lock a tracking box on a specific person's face with 99% accuracy on a home computer and have a webcam follow it, no reason why that couldn't be changed to recognize an aircraft profile and let a missile follow it. Chaff and flares won't easily distract from that specific image either. The cat is out of the bag there.


reply posted on 17-5-2011 @ 09:59 PM by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by DOJtookmyjob



If you try to detonate a nuclear bomb, it will be mistaken as a nuclear war and we don't want those can of worms opened. Not only that most military hardens all electronics against EMP. If the US uses nuclear weapons for any purpose all other countries will be justified in using them. Do you want a nuke detonated over NYC? That is exactly what the enemy will do.

If it was an EMP strike the enemy could place or manufacture a Z-pinch device right here in the USA borders and set it off near major areas effectively frying out all US systems that have not been hardened.

It really would not work for both sides as all militaries know about EMP and have hardened their systems.
edit on 17-5-2011 by THE_PROFESSIONAL because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 24-5-2011 @ 09:02 AM by Laokin
Originally posted by Bicent76
reply to
post by THE_PROFESSIONAL



well that is your opinion. The Comanche was not hypothetical it was made.. Anyhow a apache, can deal with small arms fire, and IF a good enough helicopter pilot was piloting the helicopter it can and would harass these sam sites. Hellfires are great for eliminating sam sites... Just fire and forget. Um maybe throw in some a10's as well.. sam sites alone will not win a air war.....

you can argue with me on that til your purple in the face.. Won't change my mind.


The F22 will eat your Apache's, while it's briskly defended and flying in the "zone" of the AA battallion.

Strategy fails.

It was the Modern AA Battallion and an F22 vs A squadron of F-22's.

Clearly, it's an unwinable scenario, without matching with mobile AA, It becomes a battle for the sky.

What I would do, is get some mobile aa in there, and try to pop their F22, once that's done... we can send in the Apache's under cover of the mobile AA and the F-22 Squadron. Once the Air space is converted to your control -- the battle is essentially won.

The only counter to AA Batallion and an F22 is More F-22's and mobile AA.

(I suppose you can try some UAV attacks on the AA's, but pretty much, you would have to overwelm the AA's to win.)


reply posted on 25-5-2011 @ 10:54 AM by fritz
With regards to the F-117 that was shot down over Kosovo, I seem to remember that it was raining on that particular night. For those of you who don't know how detecting a stealthy aircraft can be achieved, you don't look for any aircraft. You look for something that is not there.

For example if you remember the armoured attacks that took place at night during DS I and II, the Allies seemed to know where almost every Iraqi AFV was, even though they were 'shielded' from radar and thermal detection. The reason? There were 'dark, empty' shadows against a black background which was giving off a certain amount of heat. The tank gunners simply lined up their sights on these targets and destroyed tank after tank!

The same can be done with radar against so called 'stealthy' aircraft. These can be detected because even rain has a radar cross section and believe it or not, if an aircraft stealthy or otherwise is flying through it, there could be a 'nil' return on the detector, thus indicating that 'something' is 'out there!'

A good operator will re-tune his search and target tracking radar to paint any 'blank' spaces in the sky and, depending on the type of radar, send a pencil thin bean which frequency hops within a certain spectrum to detect the suspected aircraft.

It can be done. It has happened before and it will happen again. The trick is to keep doing it when somebody is shooting missiles at you but then of course, as a SAM battery commander, you'll have a 'knock-off' Patriot SAM system of your own and we all know that these are the dog's dangly bits when it comes to area defence against incoming missiles and smart bombs!

A good SAM commander will also utilise dummy SAM sites with smoke missiles which will force said F-22, F15/16s, A10s and Apache pilots to fly higher risking further detection.

Of course all this speculation is null and void if the SAM commander is also armed with a few Metal Storm systems or something fiendishly similar.


reply posted on 25-5-2011 @ 11:37 AM by Pervius
Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to
post by Laxpla



What if they are russian owned satellites and the Russians are just giving their services to another country say Iran. Is the US really gonna try to shoot down a Russian satellite to start WW3?



Iran no longer exists. We just put sanctions on them so they can't get gasoline anymore. They're dead since they can't take their crude oil and make their own gasoline. We probably promised China something since they will soon lose their investments in Iran...I'm sure they are getting something nice,

I think shooting down a F-22 is irrelevant now. Since the F-35 is getting canceled I think they see it won't work and are opting for the newer birds.

If Russia's space satellites are any good you've already seen what they are. Tiny aren't they?


reply posted on 26-5-2011 @ 03:11 AM by korathin
Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to
post by DOJtookmyjob



If you try to detonate a nuclear bomb, it will be mistaken as a nuclear war and we don't want those can of worms opened. Not only that most military hardens all electronics against EMP. If the US uses nuclear weapons for any purpose all other countries will be justified in using them. Do you want a nuke detonated over NYC? That is exactly what the enemy will do.

If it was an EMP strike the enemy could place or manufacture a Z-pinch device right here in the USA borders and set it off near major areas effectively frying out all US systems that have not been hardened.

It really would not work for both sides as all militaries know about EMP and have hardened their systems.
edit on 17-5-2011 by THE_PROFESSIONAL because: (no reason given)


Simple end run= Saturation Bombing. Stealth is useful for strategic bombing aka "we don't want a too high enemy civilian casualty rate". Send in drones on Kamikaze missions against enemy SAM batteries and other anti-aircraft targets and then just send in B-1B , B-2 , some F-22's as distractions/support to eliminate infrastructure and mop up with a few B-52H.

Of course that would probably violate a few international treaties, high enemy civilian causalities and likelihood of high pilot causalities.

But in the end the target nation would not longer be able to wage war, let alone rule it's own people(so a despotic government would fall into complete anarchy).
edit on 26-5-2011 by korathin because: Changed Coventry Blitz to "Saturation Bombing", aka carpet bombing.

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