How they Built the Great Pyramid of Egypt

S+F

Great use of diagrams, helped this layman visualise some of the more intricate parts of the pyramid, I especially liked your varying ideas of how the foundations may have been built with ramps and zig-zags.

Never heard about those strange bits of metal (tools?) in there, possibly the ball may have been used in a weight mechanism?

Maybe the pyramids were used as a machine or at least had a purpose. The older I get, the further i distance myself from the tombs theory.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Great new Avatar I didn't recognize you at first.

The ball and Iron fired my imagination. Could they have used the ball-balls as some sort of large bearings to roll or pivot heavy objects on? They wouldn't have lasted very long [Maybe why only one was found] but stone balls would have been easy to create in large numbers and easily replaced. The Iron is really interesting because in the link provided it states the Iron is possibly very VERY old and is not from a meteor.

That means it was smelted in the bronze age

reply to post by SLAYER69


I was referring more to the Djed itself and not any base (which would be easy enough to anchor), the Djed would still have to rotate upon an axle for this theory to work and I don't see any means to secure it in a way it could still function and handle that sort of lateral load. It would take a material like steel to work. Place a stone Djed (let's assume made of granite) in a sandstone basin like in the photo and rotate it while under a heavy load and it would quickly wear it's way through. The friction would also be too high to allow a setup like this to provide any adequate advantage.

As for these being food and/or water basins, well that is just a suggestion, they may have been re-purposed from blocks quarried for the pyramid itself and left at a height suitable for self-serving from, they did have some 20,000 people to feed per day. They're just too decorative to have been used for anything like a pivot point for some lifting device or pinion device. (and why would they need to make the lip raised above the stone surface?)

When all is said and done, I think you'll see the most practical means the Egyptians had at their disposal is also the least glamorous - the one described by Herodotus and exemplified by the Shadoof lever.

Another point to keep in mind, Egyptians didn't just build pyramids - how would some of these techniques theorized in this topic work for building some of Egypt's other great monuments? None of the other pyramids have anything like the Grand gallery so their construction methods clearly was not reliant on it. Nor would these internal/external ramps, or Djed pinion methods be very useful for later works like the Alexandrian lighthouse or the hypostyle hall (to name just a few), for those they needed lifting devices that couldn't incorporate ramps as in the building of a pyramid.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Draken
Also all this article is trying to prove is that humans got dumber ?

How did we get dumber? Not all humans at that period were able to read hieroglyphs. Remember [then as now] knowledge is power. I'm sure the Egyptian Priests and Engineers would have kept their knowledge as secretly as possible in order to be able to maintain their worth in the royal families eyes.

This would have worked against mankind as a whole. For unless they trained and shared their knowledge it would have been lost. In this case that appears to have happened

So thousands of years ago we could built pyramids with super basic tools, but as things evolved and we got better, it seems it took longer for us to create great structures of art ?
en.wikipedia.org...
This building took 30 years to complete and doesn't even compare to the great pyramid.

I honestly think the Egyptians didn't allow Unions

They wouldn't need unions. It has been proven that they were not slaves and they were building because they wanted to.

2nd, They would have to place a block every 2secs to have created the Great Pyramid in the time periods given by archeologists. Its more about impossibles then amazing feats of man.

Originally posted by johngtr
reply to post by PsykoOps

 

But if that theory was "correct" how do you explain things like the giant blocks of solid Granite that were also used weighing several tons each?

Could you try to explain it, please ?

Peace

Nope but slayer might be able to come up with something. As far as I'm concerned that casting theory is the most interesting one so far but I have no idea how well it holds up.

reply to post by PsykoOps


Thats cool, you are entitled to your opinion and i respect that, i how ever believe Egyptians did not build them ( at least not on there own ) i really agree with a lot of what Nassim haramein ( the guy whos vids i posted ) has to say, it may seem a bit " far out" but i believe it has a lot of good valid points about why they could not have built them on there own- including as a few people mentioned , the blocks could not have been placed fast enough with the precision they were in the time frame the pyramids where built.

Thats my opinion,

Peace

Whew!!

Nicely done, as always, and a lot of fun things to read! While I disagree with some of the mechanism interpretations and agree that others need further evidence, you did a nice job of tying it together.

One thing that I recently came across that you may find interesting is that Herodotus mentions how the pyramids were built. Yes, I know he's sometimes called "the Father of Lies" but I recently downloaded one of his books and started reading -- and I think that dismissing him in that way is a bad idea. In fact, he's a pretty decent source for what people knew and what he was told and he is honest enough to say "well, I was told THIS but here's what I think and here's the evidence I'm using."

So, he reports they said they used the Shadouf levers and hoisted the stones -- and I find this a pretty credible thing. Given the way the djed is used and written about in ancient Egypt, I disagree with the idea of the djed being any part of a construction device.

Oh... the circular stones with the weird engravings? Those are the tops (or bottoms) of temple pillars.

Personally, I like the *idea that the Pyramids were designed built with the assistance of other-world help, but pragmatically I believe that the people did have the wherewithal to pull off this great feat and that we modernists tend not to give their expertise enough credit. We are still learning about our past, there are more surprises to come, no doubt. Fantastic thread.

Originally posted by Draken
2nd, They would have to place a block every 2secs to have created the Great Pyramid in the time periods given by archeologists. Its more about impossibles then amazing feats of man.

1st.
They supposedly placed a block every 3 to 6 minutes. Not an impossibility after a few months of trial and error and another 19 years and 10 months or so to perfect the technique

2nd.
From my understanding of real human history many things were once thought impossible.

A. People would die if a train went faster than 30 miles per hour. [The air would be sucked out]
B. Nothing heavier than air would ever fly.
C. Flying to, landing and returning a man from the moon.
D. Finding and splitting the Atom.
E. Getting myself extracted from my last marriage

Slayer
what a great thread bro
S&F

I could not absorb all this data if I worked
at it for 10 yrs. It is an encyclopedia of
knowledge and brilliantly displayed.
Maybe you should write a book
Kudos on a job well done

boon

my guess is that most of the rapid development of the math and science took place before the establishment of really big government. by the time the "takers" had gathered the power to command the big and lasting monuments, the civilization was well on the way down. who is john galt? and pulleys, levers, inclined planes, etc. would sure have helped to move all the cement and water used.

reply to post by PsykoOps


Great, I would suggest to contact directly Prof. Davidovits for an answer on that. I contacted him for a similar research concerning the stone spheres in Costa Rica (chemical formula to 'soften' the rocks) and got a reply very quickly.

en.wikipedia.org...

Can we also address how other cultures seemed to build similar things around the same time and being unable to communicate with one another and who didn't have as much man power as the egyptians are thought to have had?

or is that for another thread?

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Agreed. For this to be anchored securely would require more than what is pictured. While it is a great idea for some smaller pieces, I cannot see it working well or lasting long for anything of significance.

The more I look at it, the more I start to mentally tinker with it. Perhaps if the shaft were sunk into a much deeper fixture (above and below) it could possibly bear the lateral load without failing. I am not all that keen about animal lard working well but perhaps they used some form of bushing.

I am not an Egyptologist. This was the Bronze age, true? What type of metal would they have to work with? This could be made of stone perhaps but trying to get that shaft concentric enough would be a challenge. However, stone was their medium.

Anyway, great work OP.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Draken
2nd, They would have to place a block every 2secs to have created the Great Pyramid in the time periods given by archeologists. Its more about impossibles then amazing feats of man.

1st.
They supposedly placed a block every 3 to 6 minutes. Not an impossibility after a few months of trial and error and another 19 years and 10 months or so to perfesct the technique

2nd.
From my understanding of real human history many things were once thought impossible.

A. People would die if a train went faster than 30 miles per hour. [The air would be sucked out]
B. Nothing heavier than air would ever fly.
C. Flying to, landing and returning a man from the moon.
D. Finding and splitting the Atom.
E. Getting myself extracted from my last marriage

edit on 20-3-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Really sorry but i have to defend against this - absolutely nothing personal : ) , and this is a fantastic thread.
PS . ( you spelled perfect wrong )

But even if they had a 6 minute maximum built time per block ( i believed it close to between 2 - 4 minutes ), Do you seriously thing they could place them so extremely accurately together so accurate they are almost perfect, every single one of them. With only the methods you mentioned in the OP,

Even if they practised for years i severely doubt that they could do this.

There is no way even today with the most modern, efficient equipment and experts , that we could make a replica pyramid placing blocks on that quickly with that much consistency in how accurate they were.

Again this is my opinion, nothing personal.
2nd comment A - D i totally agree , that humans have made a lot of assumptions then been found to be wrong and i think that believing the pyramids where built by the Egyptians could be another to add to that list.

comment E - that's your business


Peace -

reply to post by Byrd


Thanks for the reply.
As always, it is appreciated when a more knowledgeable member chimes in.
Regarding the Djed method, I too find issues with it but it does raise the question and possibility of pulleys and winching being used. I also like his idea of the ramping system he outlined. I added it to give some variety to the possible methods used.

I tried to break down the various known remnant components to the ridiculous. Everything seems to work if we let certain things that may not factor in to the accepted time-frame. Considering that the Ancient Egyptians were obviously way ahead of many of their contemporaries why is it so hard to believe they not only were able to build such large monuments but also had slightly more advanced metallurgy techniques figured out?

Any Iron and [possibly steal] they may have developed would have long since rusted away. [Easily could have happened over 3 to 4 thousand years] Leaving only small fragments. Alloys last much longer. [Bronze from Copper]

They had rope.

Whats the first thing one would do with it? Tie things up, Then bind things together. Followed by using it to lift and haul. Finally create methods to increase it's functionality - Pulleys and or creating a Windless.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Draken
2nd, They would have to place a block every 2secs to have created the Great Pyramid in the time periods given by archeologists. Its more about impossibles then amazing feats of man.

1st.
They supposedly placed a block every 3 to 6 minutes. Not an impossibility after a few months of trial and error and another 19 years and 10 months or so to perfect the technique

2nd.
From my understanding of real human history many things were once thought impossible.

A. People would die if a train went faster than 30 miles per hour. [The air would be sucked out]
B. Nothing heavier than air would ever fly.
C. Flying to, landing and returning a man from the moon.
D. Finding and splitting the Atom.
E. Getting myself extracted from my last marriage

edit on 20-3-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

No no. If you want to believe egyptians created them then you must follow the history that is being told. They would not work half the year because they would be working on crops. So it is a block every 2-3 seconds. You must also consider that the great pyramid had limestone slabs at angles all around the whole thing enclosing the stone blocks and polished to leave the surface super flat you could slide down the whole thing ? You could also not fit a thin blade between these slabs. Imagine we factored in the time for those ? Some say it could of been so polished it reflected the sky.

www.highbeam.com...
This is an article from 1998. They wanted to re-encase one of the smaller pyramids to make it look nicer. Guess what, they never finished the project, it was deemed not possible for any money by the engineers

Should we get into the water erosion in the pyramids and great sphinx ? That could only be possible if these structures were standing at least 10k years ago. When the area was less arid ? Which already throws the whole current theory on Egypt out the window. Also if you follow the meandering path of the Nile, you find that 10k years ago it would of run right next to the pyramids , showing if they were built 10k years ago, the Nile will fit in perfect with their design of the pyramids.

Also latest findings show that the half-build pyramids and other such pyramids in Egypt were built AFTER the great pyramid. Proof of this is also shown from the water erosion on the sphinx and great pyramid, the erosion is not present on the more modern 'copy' pyramids. Most likely the culture that ended up around that area 2k years ago wanted to copy the pyramids and these diagrams you are showing are just the possible ways the people in that area 2k years ago could of tried to do this.

Doing any research on these things has been very hard within the last 30 years. The Egyptian government did not allow you to do studies or papers on anything around Giza unless it was following the accepted history of the area, I.E It was built by slaves around 2k years ago.
At least now with what has happened in Egypt, maybe we can get a leader their that will allow people to do this research.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

2nd.
From my understanding of real human history many things were once thought impossible.

I couldn't agree more. Same thing with water on mars and the moon. And life on mars.
But then you must consider that accept theory of Egypt is from YEARS and YEARS ago. Don't you think they missed something back then ? And we should re-look at things ?

reply to post by Draken


Hopefully they will allow the work to be done that would be exciting, obviously once Egypt is more settled and is more stable and safer to travel, work and live there.

I believe because of the time period thing ( you mentioned growing crops ) They would also have to have made time to bathe,eat,drink,sleep and deal with all kind of possible weather conditions, social issues etc.. at that time.

Hope this is a valid point you all will seriously consider, and not "brush it under the carpet" because it does not fit in what we have all been told growing up, isnt this what ATS is partially about.

Peace

Normally I find pyramid talk boring, because there is so much idle speculation and gooey New Age nonsense associated with it. You make a compelling case that certainly the ancient world had the technology to construct these monoliths. WHY they would waste so much time and energy on it is another matter...maybe people in the future will wonder why we wasted so much time on the Internet.

That said, I have to add, your first post was the most thorough, well-illustrated, well put together post I have ever seen on this forum, or many others for that matter. Well done!