Do we have the Illuminati all wrong?, page 2

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reply posted on 20-3-2011 @ 05:31 PM by jolly

reply to post by WillNiendick

If you read all the articles on the website, and are still unable to come to a conclusion about the true intent of the ancient society. Then stick to ATS. ATS has all the answers. ALL the answers...

reply posted on 21-3-2011 @ 12:53 AM by CasiusIgnoranze

Although that website is an interesting read, it is inherently a party manifesto of the Illuminati Hip Hop Meritocracy party. Do not ask me why, apparently the illuminati have chosen Hip Hop as their primary music..
Their politics and system of government is flawed - and they do very well to re-enforce their ideas as expected by any political party with firm beliefs.
They make really bold claims that they can eradicate poverty, have less crime etc like any other political party would "pledge" to do. But the hideous thing about meritocracy is that it tells you that if you’ve given life your all and haven’t got to the top you’re thick or stupid. Previously, at least, you could always just blame the class system in a Capitalistic society.
Meritocracy may seem the flashy alternative to communism and capitalism to those who do not have a CLUE about how these systems work, but don't be fooled. It is mere a mixture of both (and a bit of fascism minus racism) and plus the economy in that type of system is unstable + never been proved to work (something which many small fringe parties completely ignore).
They clearly state that they want to abolish political parties and hence establish a one "world" government - be it good or not. I can imagine the lack of free speech denied to people who might be against to the notion!
Don't get me wrong but capitalism and communism also have their own serious flaws (you can wiki it and check for yourself) but so far Capitalist Democratic Society is by far the most stable. In all, Meritocracy is literally a "lip service to equality".

So to sum up, very good read on website but illuminati Hip Hop Meritocracy Party? No thanks..Unless you have a free lightsabre to hand out.

edit on 21-3-2011 by CasiusIgnoranze because: nrg

reply posted on 21-3-2011 @ 09:20 AM by jolly

reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze

I am sorry you feel that way. If you could please point me to this Capitalist Democratic Society you speak of, that would be appreciated, probably by all people on this forum. Are you not aware, this phony two party Democratic Society you speak of is in fact the veil of the most insidious plutocracy to ever govern this earth.

btw you missed one key difference between communism, meritocracy, and capitalistic democracy. The reason why communism failed, and why the current democracy will fail, the Elite came to power. This will not be allowed in a meritocratic society, by the very laws that govern a meritocratic society. Has there ever been a meritocratic society? America was originally supposed to be one, but we all know what happened when the banks took over. So how can you be so quick to judge. I myself couldn't be sure, because I have never lived in a meritocratic society, but I have lived long enough in this country, and read enough about how it works, to know that it doesn't operate by the rules of its own constitution, which btw essentially calls for a meritocracy. All men are created equal, but in this day and age a man's wealth is his status. This is not what the founding fathers of this country called for. It's your choice, if you agree that people deserve nothing more then to be wage slaves, keep defending this system you believe to be functioning healthily.

edit on 21-3-2011 by jolly because: flabbergasted

reply posted on 21-3-2011 @ 02:51 PM by CasiusIgnoranze

Originally posted by jolly
reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze

I am sorry you feel that way. If you could please point me to this Capitalist Democratic Society you speak of, that would be appreciated, probably by all people on this forum. Are you not aware, this phony two party Democratic Society you speak of is in fact the veil of the most insidious plutocracy to ever govern this earth.

btw you missed one key difference between communism, meritocracy, and capitalistic democracy. The reason why communism failed, and why the current democracy will fail, the Elite came to power. This will not be allowed in a meritocratic society, by the very laws that govern a meritocratic society. Has there ever been a meritocratic society? America was originally supposed to be one, but we all know what happened when the banks took over. So how can you be so quick to judge. I myself couldn't be sure, because I have never lived in a meritocratic society, but I have lived long enough in this country, and read enough about how it works, to know that it doesn't operate by the rules of its own constitution, which btw essentially calls for a meritocracy. All men are created equal, but in this day and age a man's wealth is his status. This is not what the founding fathers of this country called for. It's your choice, if you agree that people deserve nothing more then to be wage slaves, keep defending this system you believe to be functioning healthily.

edit on 21-3-2011 by jolly because: flabbergasted

No system is perfect. Humans are born selfish. True equality is like trying to reach infinity - it can never be reached....

reply posted on 21-3-2011 @ 07:29 PM by HTorch22

Step 1 to true equality is the 100% Inheritance tax. It would ensure that each person is on equal terms. The rich won't stay rich.

but the hideous thing about meritocracy is that it tells you that if you’ve given life your all and haven’t got to the top you’re thick or stupid. Previously, at least, you could always just blame the class system in a Capitalistic society.

That's life for you. Why should some idiot "make it" while an extremely intelligent person doesn't. In a nation where the best and brightest automatically rise to the top anything is possible. I don't care about other people's feelings if it means weakening the nation. The world doesn't revolve around me nor does it revolve around anyone. I am not as intelligent as Michio Kaku, but I don't get jealous because he is a world renown theoretical physicist and I am not. Our merit should dictate our success in life. Not looks, personality, or our parents. It's not like there will be that big of a difference. The guy working at burgerking can't become president now and he won't in a meritocracy, but at least he'll have a chance to get a real job or move up in the world. Is ignorance really bliss when it threatens your welfare?

They clearly state that they want to abolish political parties and hence establish a one "world" government - be it good or not. I can imagine the lack of free speech denied to people who might be against to the notion!

No. Why would there be political parties in a Meritocracy? This is not Democracy. There is no reason for parties. Everyone does something to the best of his abilities not because their party demands it. There is no party guidelines. There is no corruption. There is no lack of free speech, because this is not communism. A very large majority of people in the U.S. vote strictly on party guidelines and not about specific issues. That is bad. Someone who works in Walmart knows nothing about Healthcare and thus why would they vote on it? This ensures only experts deal with the problems they are experts in.

This is NOT the Illuminati people think it is. There won't be any lack of freedom. There won't be any death camps. There won't be any silencing of conspiracy theorists. There won't be any corruption. That is fundamentally against everything Meritocracy, the Movement, and the Illuminati stand for. We simply wish to bring equality to a corrupt, broken world. Why should children starve while Donald Trump and some 6000 others sit on a hoard of gold. Is 2.9 billion dollars really not sufficient for one person?

If you want to live in a world where the rich get richer and the poor starve then Meritocracy is not for you. If you want to live in a world where everyone has an equal chance, everyone graduates high school, and everyone gets to eat then Meritocracy is for you. Living a perfect moral life is impossible, but should we all degenerate into thieving, murdering barbarians? Also once again I reiterate this is NOT communism. We don't want true equality. We don't want the same wages for everyone. We just want an equal beginning for everyone.

If life is a race why should some people start a few feet from the end, while others never even made it to the stadium yet? Would you want to run that race? Would you want your children to? We want it so every person starts at the same starting line. Their natural abilities would decide if they come in first or last.

edit on 21-3-2011 by HTorch22 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 22-3-2011 @ 02:52 AM by Octoaugustus

Hello,

This is my first post here, so please feel free to send me packing if I'm asking in the wrnog thread.

A search threw up this thread while I was looking into stuff regarding people having their Illuminati and NWO ideas wrong so it seems like a place to ask and you guys seem helpful and open-minded.

The question on my mind though was not what if the Illuminati are fighting against the NWO/enslaving of humanity, but what if the Illuminati/NWO is actually what it says - a way of saving humanity - not in a spiritual or political sense, but in a very real physical sense?

My main interest has never been consipiracy, but archaeology and in particular the feasability of mankind having survived global cataclysm previously (re Hancock, Bauval etc...), whereby an elite group survives the catastrophe and re-establishes human society afterwards. Towards the end, Would a group such as this follow normal moral codes of "good" and "evil" to ensure survival, or would they go hell bent to save whatever few they could? Would they sacrifice the many to save the few? I'm still pulling in ideas and theories about this so they are just questions in my mind for now.

Essentially what I'm asking is could the Illuminati/Elite/NWO (whatever name you want to give) all be the same group, working towards survival of a few to guarantee the survival of the species? Has this idea been discussed before? (I did a search but must not be looking in the right places)

tl;dr - "What if it's not so much a New World Order, but an Order for the New World?"

reply posted on 22-3-2011 @ 01:47 PM by HTorch22

I can only speak about the Illuminati I know of. They are an order based on Eastern mystics that was really organized by Pythagoras. They are not elite. Their entire message is no man is better then another. They are very anti Royalty.

There is no coming apocalypse. The Illuminati have been fighting for centuries to topple the Old World Order and to create a society based on Meritocracy. They want to save the poor from the rich. They want to end this secret slavery we all are subjected to.

reply posted on 30-1-2012 @ 01:56 AM by euph0ric

reply to post by WillNiendick

the real truth is really hard to find, everyone has their own version of what they think is the "truth" especially regarding the illuminati. you should to some research about the reptilians and reptilian hybrids and see if that may change your opinion...

anyways i think the best way to find out the truth and stay away from dishonest information and keep yourself away from confusion is to meditate, open your third eye... gnani yoga will present you with the universal truths.

astral projection can give you the opportunity to communicate with different entities; you can gain knowledge from higher consciousness beings, who know waayyyyy more than we do.

just something that might help out with your theory... maybe it'll help you prove/ disprove it

reply posted on 3-3-2012 @ 03:50 PM by TeslaandLyne

reply to post by WillNiendick

Your right we do not know how to stand up to them, cause they knock us down.
They are knocking us down on every occasion.
They don't even need paid agents because they have turned every one to their side.
How many people say UFOs are balloons when good people put up an unknown
as if they can't tell us it a balloon. Teslaship sightings are not balloons but we do
not know of them because of the Illuminati. Is that wrong. Yes.

reply posted on 3-3-2012 @ 08:02 PM by unityemissions

reply to post by houseoftheangels

First off, kudos to you!!

Now, when I look at complex systems these days, I don't see evil or good. I see greed, and damage control. I see human nature. Just as every individual has potential for what other individuals perceive to be evil, so does various institutions, governments, and corporations.

It's a kind of mindless, yet enlightening perspective, but I see everything as happening all at once, and there being no other way about it. We're a drop in the ocean. At the marco level causing tidal waves, yet individually ascending one drop at a time into the heavens to be purified and recycled.

Yes, people do seem to be mis-perceiving their selves, and therefore, the world around them. Now, to be honest, this is just a transitory state. I'm still pretty polluted with all sorts of nasties, and will be back to being pissed at the world shortly. Doesn't change the fact that everyone seems to simply be playing there part, and doing what they thinks is best based on their current set of circumstances and understandings.

I can look at nearly any so evil conspiracy and see it from multiple angles. I can see the black and white absurdities people often speak of in CT circles, and know something is off. What I know is that people should be wary when someone tries to tell you they know the truth. Myself included. Rarely does someone claim to know THE truth and not expect to gain captives.

Apply that to this site, and others like it. There are people who are unwitting tossing around bs, and then people who just want to cause harm. CTers are going in nonsensical loops. Wasting their lives. Been there, done that.

I don't claim to know the reason anyone here started on this site. It could be many. I bet you the ones who stay a while are unsatisfied, and need to fill some of their time with things that are not constructive to their well being.

So if you stumbled on this thread wondering of another possibility (elite not absolute evil or similar), and read this post, just know that you're on the right train of thought. Look at yourself first. Are you all good? Really, are you? What about your girl/boy friend? What about your family? Your community? Your country? Then how the hell are you going to expect these supposed rulers, or social engineers to get things right with a bunch of crazy ass human beings?!

It's just damage control.

Yes, greed happens. Yes, some people can be thought of as psycho, or brutal. Sometimes things are necessary, sometimes people are too far gone and still have power. It's still not controlled by any damned one person or group. To think otherwise is absurd, in my opinion. Powerful individuals may have a small chunk of control within a given sector, but there are many. Even if standard laws are being corrupted, that just gives way for "criminals" to be disobedient, and creative, and find an out.

All I'm saying is ultimately "the game" is more about perception, than what really is. That didn't click with me for the longest time, but makes perfect sense now. If social engineers are able to wave a magic wand, it's by way of transmiting ideas and ideals that the rest of us gobble down. they change our perception, and concept of reality. Well just free your mind. I'm not talking out of that one box, but the whole lot of them. Out of any one group doing this or that, and onto more productive things.

Besides the mundane, people only have influence when we give it to them. Control is an illusion. So take back the only thing you can get remotely close to truly controlling, your mind, and use it to some benefit, rather than sitting behind a keyboard and pondering some # that doesn't bloody matter. Why doesn't it matter? Because we can't change it. None of us. These cycles involve 7+ billion free minds doing their thing, but ultimately interacting to play out the same damned ending and beginnings.

If you see merely ramblings, good...move on.

If you see something of benefit, good...move on.

edit on 3-3-2012 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 3-3-2012 @ 08:28 PM by rickymouse

I'm not sure the Illuminati exist. If they do, I'm not sure if they are good or bad. There could be someone controling this mess but all I can find is evidence of greed, desire for power, and another weird thing that follows.

It seems that lending officers sometimes bend rules to loan people they like or have something in common with, giving them loans they can't really afford. If the loan officer knows the real-estate salesman he/she may try to get the loan approved so there is a commission paid. Also if a loan officer is intimidated by a lack of knowledge of a business venture a customer is trying to borrow for they will try to get it approved. This is the borrowers bullying technique. Sometimes people just want to be perceived as nice by others and that can make loans have problems. Commissions and bonuses make bad business for banks too, only straight salary or wages should be allowed. It is not always greed. All loans made from friendship arrangements aren't bad either. If your friend helped you get the loan, most times you go out of your way not to default. When the banks are big corporations or loans are reassigned, noone cares if they default. Many reasons for things to go bump in the night.

reply posted on 7-4-2012 @ 08:07 PM by Jayhews

Interesting post, one of the reasons i find this interesting is, while i was at university some place in the U.K, during the first term of the first year we all got letters from the illuminati asking us to join up, except me, i didn’t get one. My mate down the hall he got one, he was doing psychology, the girl across from me, she got one too, she was a science-based degree. Me i was fine art, and to brag a little bit i did get a first degree, that was nice for a while. I don’t know anyone who applied to join the illuinati. Others and I assumed it was some sort of test, or some Christianity junk mail pretending to be something else to attract applicants. But now 10 years on i am not so sure, because a friend of mine doing science got a letter asking her to join the illuminate, its a letter that has the eye and pyramid. Just the same as 10 years ago. It looks like the illuminati are recruiting science-based students, why has no other student reported this? I have heard that the illuminate is the antidote to our freemason infestation.

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