Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

The minting of Liberty dollars also appears to be in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 486:

Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

So making coins is not illegal, but making coins that are .....intended for use as CURRENT MONEY, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, OR OF ORIGINAL DESIGN...... is illegal.

Wow, do you have any idea what this means? Take a US quarter out of your pocket and ask ten random people if it resembles a United States coin. Ten out of ten people will say something like "Yes, it does resemble a United States coin." Now use that coin to buy a gumball. You are now a Felon under US law you cited which clearly states that any and all coins that resemble US coins are illegal to use as money under the law.

Or at least that would be the case, except for one very major point! The little snippet of law you present is out of a bigger section very clearly titled "Counterfeiting and Forgery". That title clearly places the context of the law to be counterfeiting and forgery, not currency markets.

If that really is the law used to convict Liberty Dollar then they obviously have a slam dunk appeal & subsequent vindication. The $20 Liberty piece does not resemble any specific US coin, even though it does have a similar style. The criminal syndicate known as the Federal Reserve very well may have some text on US law books that says competing with their monopoly scheme is illegal, but the citation you use is not it.

Originally posted by Frontkjemper
Umm... Because they're not in the U.S.? What this case goes on about isn't a copyright issue but rather one of counterfeit. Since the coins resemble the U.S. coins, they can be mistakenly used as legal tender.

They are so much more valuable than the pot metal us coinage I don't think the holder of the liberty dollars would accidentally use them.
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Originally posted by civilchallenger


If that really is the law used to convict Liberty Dollar then they obviously have a slam dunk appeal & subsequent vindication. The $20 Liberty piece does not resemble any specific US coin, even though it does have a similar style. The criminal syndicate known as the Federal Reserve very well may have some text on US law books that says competing with their monopoly scheme is illegal, but the citation you use is not it.

You completely missed the point then.

The section makes it illegal to use the coin as currency - "current money" - regardless of whether it resembles "official" US currency or not.

My point was that it appears that the conviction is for making the coinage to be used as currency - presumably as payment for goods and services.

Not for it's bullion content being traded on markets as such.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
The section makes it illegal to use the coin as currency - "current money" - regardless of whether it resembles "official" US currency or not.

My point was that it appears that the conviction is for making the coinage to be used as currency - presumably as payment for goods and services.

Not for it's bullion content being traded on markets as such.

Well you seem totally right that the conviction appears to be for minting the coins as currency.

You are totally wrong that the citation regarding forgery had anything to do with anything but counterfeiting and forgery. If the section was about printing original currency, it would have been labeled "printing an original currency". And if you totally ignore the context as you really want me to do apparently, then you are left with a law that makes using any and all coins of all types completely illegal, and does absolutely nothing to say that only coins used as currency would be illegal. It very clearly states anything resembling a US coin is not allowed.

US mint coins resemble US coins more than any other coin there is in existence. They are the very definition of a US coin. Therefore the people most obviously violating the law cited are very certainly people using genuine US coins. That is to say if you avoid the context completely.

If you look at the context then you are left with a law regarding forgery and counterfeiting, which I say again has zero to do with Liberty Dollar since they very clearly were not involved in those activities.