Allied Forces Begin Military Action Against Libya - Live Updates

reply to post by Danbones


History is written by the victors. Remember that few US classrooms teach about the smallpox blankets given to the native Americans, or the widespread extermination of bison herds, or how the Vietnam war was started by a lie, or how the Korean war started - but never actually ended. Stuff like that. Most Russians never learned a thing about Josef Stalin.

What is taught to children now just prepares them for the rubbish they'll read in the newspapers and see on the TV later in life. Swallow this rubbish now, and you won't believe what you'll be able to put up with later.
This is not America Bashing, by the way (and I can read that you're in Canada), as I'm simply pointing out that history (especially on the History Channel) can be spun any way you need to spin it. Look how Reagan is being lauded as so amazing. Well, he was. For the rich only though.

Originally posted by Itop1

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant

Originally posted by Itop1

Originally posted by Irish Matador
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

I totally agree with you but just because of our situation we dont start wars with other countries just because we have big brother USA behind us and kill and rob the people of another country.

We fought for our own freedom for long enough so I understand foregin rule only too well.

This is a doulbe standard attack on a country.

Financial mistakes of one country would never justify the invasion of another.

As much as I agree with you, I think the point you are making has nothing to do with this thread

Not as if Ireland could mount an offensive anyway, is it?

Can you elaborate what you are trying to say here? Are you saying that if a country has the ability to mount an offensive, it s justified?

Ireland is useless, their economy just recently seriously failed and we had to bail them out, when we took northern ireland we should have just taken the whole of Ireland and renamed it United Ireland

Ok, now I am aware of your close minded irrational view points, I am restricting myself from engaging in further debate with you. Just as my last argument I would like to say "just because a nation is unable to effectively govern itself, its own populace and stabalize its own economy, it dosen't justify another nation to pursue an imperial foreign policy towards said country.

On reflection there is one potentially good thing to come out of all this I suppose.

Surely now we have set a precedent of running to the aide of all 'brutalised' civillians everywhere.

Palestine, Somalia, Rwanda, Ivory Coast, Congo etc....Dont worry we are on our way to liberate you all!!

Or is that me being naive this time? Guess so.

Still probably for the best...we dont seem to have a good track record as far as liberating goes.

Originally posted by primus2012
Funny that they say the US is just supporting in this mission. I mean, 100+ missiles that probably cost over 1 mil each, that's just support? The "vast" numbers of French and UK planes probably don't add up to the cost of those missiles.

Big tough France with the harshest words for Libyan's regime deployed 4-5 warplanes? WTF is that?
UK has what, a few more than that?
Denmark flew a handful of their F-16's down...

How many US warplanes and vessels are involved do ya think?

US will be blamed for any casualties to innocents. US will pay the biggest price. Wonder why Obama and Clinton sound hesitant in their speeches? They were forced into this mad dash to secure the oil for the above militaries. (US only gets a tiny % of it's oil from Libya)

Correcting my numbers, sorry Tomahawks aren't $1mil each, they are only aproximately $569,000 as of FY99$.

United States Navy Fact File - Tomahawk Cruise Missile

Description
The Tomahawk® Land Attack Missile (TLAM) is an all-weather, long range, subsonic cruise missile used for land attack warfare, launched from U. S. Navy surface ships and U.S. Navy and Royal Navy submarines.

General Characteristics

Primary Function: Long-range subsonic cruise missile for striking high value or heavily defended land targets.
Contractor: Raytheon Systems Company, Tucson, AZ.
Date Deployed: Block II TLAM-A IOC - 1984
Block III – IOC 1994
Block IV – IOC expected 2004.
Unit Cost: Approximately $569,000 (FY99 $).
Propulsion: Block II/III TLAM-A, C & D - Williams International F107 cruise turbo-fan engine; ARC/CSD solid-fuel booster
Length: 18 feet 3 inches (5.56 meters); with booster: 20 feet 6 inches (6.25 meters).
Diameter: 20.4 inches (51.81 cm).
Wingspan: 8 feet 9 inches (2.67 meters).
Weight: 2,900 pounds (1,315.44 kg); 3,500 pounds (1,587.6 kg) with booster.
Speed: Subsonic - about 550 mph (880 km/h).
Range: Block II TLAM-A – 1350 nautical miles (1500 statute miles, 2500 km)
Block III TLAM-C - 900 nautical miles (1000 statute miles, 1600 km)
Block III TLAM-D - 700 nautical miles (800 statute miles, 1250 km
Block IV TLAM-E - 900 nautical miles (1000 statute miles, 1600 km)
Guidance System: Block II TLAM-A – INS, TERCOM, Block III TLAM-C, D & Block IV TLAM-E – INS, TERCOM, DSMAC, and GPS.
Warhead: Block II TLAM-N – W80 nuclear warhead
Block III TLAM-C and Block IV TLAM-E - 1,000 pound class unitary warhead
Block III TLAM-D - conventional submunitions dispenser with combined effect bomblets.

With at least 110 fired, that's only a rough (missile-only) cost of $62.5 mil US.

Originally posted by lnr42
On reflection there is one potentially good thing to come out of all this I suppose.

Surely now we have set a precedent of running to the aide of all 'brutalised' civillians everywhere.

Palestine, Somalia, Rwanda, Ivory Coast, Congo etc....Dont worry we are on our way to liberate you all!!

Or is that being naive this time? Guess so

Unless they have large amount of Oil reserves, don't count on it!

The African Union have called for an immediate ceasefire, why am i not suprised? most of those countrys are just as bad as Gaddafi himself, ie Somalia, Algeria, Congo..... etc

news flash........everybody lies,there will always be double standards,war sucks but is always gonna be a part of life...deal with it, or sit here and piss on each other, anyone can make an argument for anything......this is retarded, but it has amused me so i thank you all for the time i wasted here.......adios

Double standards, I hope Bahrain and Yemen are next if they really there to liberate the people of dictators.
Does this intervention only apply to the Middle East or can we have jets flown to Zimbabwe and Cuba, obviously nothing to gain.

One wonders how many civilians are going to eventually die, is it greater or equal to the amount that
Gadafi has killed.

I think the US has been sitting back because they don't want to be seen as the major aggressor but they will be running the show soon.

Originally posted by hbpdfsu
news flash........everybody lies,there will always be double standards,war sucks but is always gonna be a part of life...deal with it, or sit here and piss on each, anyone can make an argument for anything......this is retarded, but it has amused me so i thank you all for the time i wasted here.......adios

Amen

OK, now I have a different view of all of this. It's true that both Hillary and Obama presented a low-key facade. Both said they were helping their allies, the Brits, French, Canadians (! ?) and would not take the lead. Now before this, they said it was important to have cooperating Arab nations in the lead. I kind of laughed at the Canadian reference, because our planes only got there this afternoon and are not expected to be combat ready until tomorrow. However, one of our Navy commanders was interviewed about leading the offensive, and said that the US was doing so. Ok then, the US and Brits were the ones with the Tomahawks, so phase 1 made sense. I fully expect that the US will play a support role after this. The DOD said it was sending two amphibious vessels, and I wondered why.

So being a total ignoramus about military strategy, I do remember that over the past three weeks, Cameron, Sarkozy and Merkel (EU) met many times directly and indirectly with Obama (US), about this. They insisted that the Arabs would have to take the lead, which so far they haven't. So if the US is not going to put feet on the ground then who will be in those landing vessels?

I was perplexed by quite a few tweets that told me that Libya was to be divided and that the other capital would be Benghazi. Why? It was clear to me over the past month that the EU was instigating this somehow and then the MSM went to work on Ghadafi. But why?

So I researched, and the plethora of information out there is an embarrassment of riches. What is the number one problem in Europe?

Here`s a rather shocking video and there are a lot more out there like it.


Click on each of the countries here and read very carefully

And for those of you who like Soros

Migration from Libya

And so, Ladies and gents, it just might be about people in Europe and about lots of Libyan Land, not to mention jobs and rebuilding

Seriously, Gaddafi is really stirring up some #, they should just assasinate him already and then everyone can get on with their lives.

reply to post by Itop1


You are both idiots. If "war just happens deal with it" then we shouldn't be intervening, if our leaders were concerned about us. NEWSFLASH: war doesn't just happen, it happens for a reason and you are either stupid or purposefully obstinate

Originally posted by lnr42
On reflection there is one potentially good thing to come out of all this I suppose.

Surely now we have set a precedent of running to the aide of all 'brutalised' civillians everywhere.

Palestine, Somalia, Rwanda, Ivory Coast, Congo etc....Dont worry we are on our way to liberate you all!!

Or is that me being naive this time? Guess so.

Still probably for the best...we dont seem to have a good track record as far as liberating goes.

edit on 19-3-2011 by lnr42 because: (no reason given)

America's new motto: America, coming to help you, as long as you are oil rich and plentiful with resources.

reply to post by Irish Matador


It actually is the topic at hand. You are all bent out of shape because you hate the UK. But the people orchestrating this are multinational corporations not "nations." They have control of governments, they are using nations, but because they are behind the curtain pulling the politicians strings, you will hate the nation, and not recognize the real people orchestrating this.

Hell you would invite them into your country with open arms and legs if you thought they were bringing you jobs.

Getting the worlds people to fight one another is how they do what they do.

What a joke.

What about the millions of people that have been tortured, starved and living under dictatorship in North Korea for eons.

What about other African Countries that kill hundreds or thousands of their own every year.

I hate how the corrupt, greedy, scumbag leaders of the World can just waltz straight in to a country without even getting the support of their own people. It makes me sick.

where's Obamas, "sit down and negotiate policy" now???????????? Thats all he was talkng about during his election process, now its just, lets get in there and bomb the crap out of them.

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by fatdad

 

What I want to know, what are these "unique capabilities" the US has that will be used by the US

That is pretty scary dude. I wonder if the US is gonna become the next Germany. Hell, they already are the next Germany!

US = The Fourth Reich.

There's also the EU.

Originally posted by Itop1
Seriously, Gaddafi is really stirring up some #, they should just assasinate him already and then everyone can get on with their lives.

People should stop ********* about with each others countries...

No one listens to the Libyans, to the actual people on the ground (not the paid-for-rebels/mercenaries). The people have clearly said they will deal with Gadaffi but the international community is not listening.

I am watching Iraq 2.0 here, only difference being that this time it will not be an impotent nation and people and the backlash from all of this could be something no one wants or expects.

Start a war, who wants to? Well good news, 112 cruise missiles let off so far. That's good isn't it? it's to take out STA missile banks to make it easier for warplanes to use more missiles. They like to use cruise for its accuracy, that's good isn't it? any bad news, well there is sort of. It takes up to 12 hours to see if all hit their targets....or not. Oh well, it's not like ordinary folk matter then does it? and even posts here talking about avengence.

www.wtvm.com...

My final post, first i would like to say that even though some of you may not agree with my views, at least I'm not living in a mickey mouse world like the rest of you, this is the reality of the world, and it will never change so you better get used to it, because when the final axe drops you will need to defend yourselves.

On the other hand i think we should take pre-emptive strikes on the following nations: Russia, Iran, Pakistan, China, Burma, North Korea and most of the African Union states

They pose the greatest risk to us with their crazy views and dictatorships.

Originally posted by Shilo68
Double standards, I hope Bahrain and Yemen are next if they really there to liberate the people of dictators.
Does this intervention only apply to the Middle East or can we have jets flown to Zimbabwe and Cuba, obviously nothing to gain.

One wonders how many civilians are going to eventually die, is it greater or equal to the amount that
Gadafi has killed.

I think the US has been sitting back because they don't want to be seen as the major aggressor but they will be running the show soon.

Originally posted by grantbeed
What a joke.

What about the millions of people that have been tortured, starved and living under dictatorship in North Korea for eons.

What about other African Countries that kill hundreds or thousands of their own every year.

I hate how the corrupt, greedy, scumbag leaders of the World can just waltz straight in to a country without even getting the support of their own people. It makes me sick.

where's Obamas, "sit down and negotiate policy" now???????????? Thats all he was talkng about during his election process, now its just, lets get in there and bomb the crap out of them.

edit on 19-3-2011 by grantbeed because: (no reason given)

"i don't think you guys are really grasping a very important distinction between Libya and some of your examples of "more oppressed nations we should be liberating". that distinction is squarely that the Libyan people are actively trying to liberate themselves. it isn't any other nation's job to march into Saudi Arabia or North Korea because the government has imposed strict and yes, oppressive, policies on its population. it may seem like an arbitrary line to draw, but in fact, it isn't. there aren't outcries and revolts and internal regime change attempts in those places, at the very least not to the extent of Libya and others.

Kim Jong-Il isn't sending turret toting pickup trucks into city squares and firing freely at peaceful citizens. he's having political prisoners rounded up, certainly, but the internal movement isn't anywhere near strong enough to warrant international military aid. nor is it in Zibabwe, though there have been times in the recent past where things have gotten very testy, and with the recent discoveries of gold there, trouble could be brewing in a very nasty way. al-Bashir just gave the okay for Southern independence within the last few months, a region that happens to hold the majority of Sudanese oil reserves. etc, etc, etc.

in Libya, as a result of other resorts throughout North Africa, the population rose up in vast vast numbers and were met with violent destruction by an army controlled by a maniacal psychopath with blood on his hands and no regard for human life and a horribly skewed understanding of the world. those are the facts, and no, they aren't media propaganda.

these are real differences in real situations in the real world. it isn't just; oh, you helped those guys, why not help these guys? for f*cks sakes, the world is a complicated place. that argument is silly anyway. i said it earlier today and i'll say it again: not being able to help everybody all the time isn't an excuse not to help somebody some of the time. if i buy a sandwich for a starving child at a train station in Moscow, am i morally obliged to do the same for every starving child at every train station in Russia, just because i've still got a few hundred Canadian dollars in my wallet? of course not. don't you see how silly that argument is?"