Germany: where obedience can be a dirty word

Germany: where obedience can be a dirty word

www.guardian.co.uk

Volker, a journalist I know in Tübingen, prints out the affidavit of another protester for me. Mark Pollmann accuses the authorities of calculated brutality: preventing paramedics entering the park, and using plainclothes police as agents provocateurs in the crowd. He says he witnessed one of them punching a teenager in the stomach, and concludes they wanted "to obtain pictures of violence on the part of the demonstrators … using provocative attacks to achieve violent responses".

Two dictatorships within living memory have left their mark on Germans. Many have a wary attitude to authority: this is a country where the word "gehorsam" (obedient) can be used as an insult.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This story may sound in contrast to a news article I ran on my own blog site about the German sterotype that appeared in The Guardian in the past few days..

www.guardian.co.uk...

Yes, the pedestrian crossing man is sacred – along with recycling and a nice, quiet lunch
One of the first noises you may hear when arriving in Germany is the sound of people tutting as they see you crossing the road before waiting for the little green man. Ignoring the red Ampelmännchen is a crime in Germany, punishable by a fine of €5 (£4.30) or more, and, outside the big cities at least, is just not the done thing. Never mind that you're in a two-horse town with one bus a day passing through: if the light is red, you wait. This is even truer in Austria, where one sleepy Sunday in Salzburg Iwas whacked on the back of the legs for ignoringthe light by an elderly woman brandishing a walking stick.

If there is a sign, you should probablyobey it. If the sauna poster tells you to shower before cooling off in the plunge pool, do it – unless you want to get into an argument with a naked German about your personal hygiene. Always carry ID. Don't cut your lawn during the Mittagsruhe (the fiercely enforced quiet time over lunch). Recycle everything. Even the grungiest station platform includes a bin separated into compartments for paper, glass and Restmüll (leftover rubbish), and woe betide you if someone spots you chucking your apple core into the wrong receptacle. If you want to argue about it, good luck: Germans are not known for backing down in an argument.

It would appear Germany runs a tight-ship government, but it is also evident the german people can and do protest. There seems to be much tension, however.

I live in a Latin-American country. There is not always a lot of "obedience" but there is a lot of cooperation among its people. It's not a perfect world here but personal liberty is very highly valued.


www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


My Dutch father lives in germany just across the border as do many dutch people. The prices for homes in germany can differ as much as 400% compared to the netherlands. However Germany really is a b*tch when it comes down to petty rules. And the german populace will go to great lenghts to help you abide by them

On the other hand, there is this crazy law. Let me explain. In the Netherlands as we all know, buying and using small quantity's of marihuana is legal. In germany this is not legal, however when a Dutch person carries a small amount (max 5 gr I thought it was) across the border and gets stopped, the police will confiscate your marihuana, giving you a receipt in the process wich yo can then use in the Netherlands to get a refund... How do ya like that!!!!

These demonstrations, especially the leftwing's are secretly funded by the state. They also use agents to infiltrate and disrupt demonstrations by using violence, but they also infiltrate in political parties like the extreme rightwing party NPD which is full of them.
It's all because the occupiers (USA, Britain and France) fear that the truth will come out, it will anyway.
Wait and see.

I am totally confused.

First, obedience is an insult, then they whack you for not being obedient.

Please explain.

I have never had any problem in Germany.
Very good people, polite.
It does help if you can speak some German.

Been there five times (mainly in the south) and never had any trouble.
But then again, you don't argue with the politzi
What they say is what goes.

reply to post by catwhoknowsplusone


We as Dutch neighbours have a bit of a grasp on the german people. They dont differ much from us. They are a little bit more eager to demonstrate as Holland barely sees any of that. But the general german populace are pretty much the backstabbing type. Just like the dutch people. As long as there is a personal profit its all good but woe anybody other having it better

Oh and the majority of german people are fullblown aholes on the road!!!! Driving left alot, barely staying clear of your bumper and always giving you a punishing look when passing. The same thing can be seen in the netherlands.
Offcourse on a personal level germans are human just like all of us and can be just as fun and nice as any other people

reply to post by faceoff85


Well, Aloha to you German and Dutch people,

You sound totally screwed up! And I still don't get this obey and disobey thing.

Why don't you get some of our kiwi and aussie love each other thing going?

reply to post by catwhoknowsplusone


Hehehe... I love kiwi's. But seriously neighbourlove is a rare thing in western europe. Offcourse there are exceptions but overall the western people will sell eachother out for nothing more then the feeling of having playd a number on someone... I agree its a controversial issue but take the whole deal with anonymous tip-lines wich every communitypolice has. They are being put to very good use... Offcourse there are some cases in wich this is very needed but the point is that people rat others out for nothing more then a bonfire in the backyard of an acreage (yes they are illegal here, need a permit)

reply to post by faceoff85


Hi faceoff,

Thanks for loving kiwis - I do too.

We have to have permits for fires too - it is a safety thing.

I have to thank providence that I was born in NZ, when I read stuff like that.

Oy,at least our Police isn´t shouting,a Gun in each Hand, for you to get out of the Car ,slowly,Hands over your Head,laying down in the middle of the Road...because one of your Car lights is broke

Though you are right,we have some strict Laws,too much to tell the Truth (the Chinese complained about that recently for whatever Reason...and because of lots of Paperwork for a few little Multi-Billion Deals...)

At least our Politicans are fun to watch when they go at each others Throats like rabid Dogs There is a Reason why it takes Months to get anything done in our "Democrazy"

reply to post by faceoff85


As a Dutch guy living in Germany I don't agree with you that the Dutch are like the Germans. They are very different.
The Dutch are wimps, Germans have (surpressed) Pride and respect their (teared down) culture more than the Dutch. If you ask a Dutch for their culture they ask you "what culture?".

Naja...wir Deutschen haben schon nen Stock im Arsch.

Automatic obedience is idiotic, no matter where you're from. Respect should be earned.

Germans are very, very...how could you describe it...neat people I think. Absolutely everything has to be in order.

That's why Germans still tend to get a bad rap in foreign countries I guess, cause it comes across as distant and cold.

reply to post by Regenstorm


Care to explain what teared down culture you are speaking of?
Also I would be interested in the "truth" the occupiers fear.
Just to make one thing clear:
Neonazis and Commies are the scumbags of our society and many Germans agree on that.

reply to post by Regenstorm


HAHAHA exactly... I hate the dutch easygoing mentality. We really dont have a dutch culture left... to many other cultures are free to roam in holland... there are parts of Amsterdam wich could make you feel like you entered a completely different country altogether, ranging from china to to the wellknown muslim streetview

Originally posted by Shenon
Oy,at least our Police isn´t shouting,a Gun in each Hand, for you to get out of the Car ,slowly,Hands over your Head,laying down in the middle of the Road...because one of your Car lights is broke

Not sure if you were referring to the US but that seems about par for the course in California where I lived most of my life. Wasn't always like that but more and more it has become so in places.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


This isn't so much a reply to you as to a line from the second article that you quoted:

Don't cut your lawn during the Mittagsruhe (the fiercely enforced quiet time over lunch).

I remember a few months back seeing a report on RTL here in Germany about the Mittagsruhe laws and such. As it turns out, in the vast majority of German localities, no such law exists; it is more of a cultural thing that has is just practiced as common courtesy. Thus, it's difficult to say that it is "fiercely enforced".

I will admit though, in the summer time, I do sometimes wish that this was a law and enforced in my community. Nothing is more annoying than trying to eat lunch and the neighbor leaf blowing for an hour! (Keep in mind that there is no A/C in German homes so the windows are almost always open in the summer!)

I find it ironic the post creator is from Mexico....talking about Germany punishing people for trivial crimes.

Mexico's been a wild west without a real government...crime enforcement...since the Spanish came to shore there and took it over. True?

Originally posted by Pervius
I find it ironic the post creator is from Mexico....talking about Germany punishing people for trivial crimes.

Mexico's been a wild west without a real government...crime enforcement...since the Spanish came to shore there and took it over. True?

Having spent most of my life in the US where life has become increasingly regimented and now the past several years living in Mexico I have seen many issues from both sides and there are certainly are some trade-offs. I really do not want to ever return to the US, not even to visit. I feel like I have to watch every little step I take. Here I can drive and have to pay attention to the road ahead, whereas in the US I have to give half my atention to watching the rearview mirror.

A half-inch foot foul is usually permitted in Mexico but the same can have you spread-eagled on the pavement on the north side of the border. Law and order is fine if you don't over-do it. When it is used as a revenue source then it becomes a game of cat-and-mouse. I'm getting too old to play that game.