Physicists investigate lower dimensions of the universe

(PhysOrg.com) -- Several speculative theories in physics involve extra dimensions beyond our well-known four (which are broken down into three dimensions of space and one of time). Some theories have suggested 5, 10, 26, or more, with the extra spatial dimensions "hiding" within our observable three dimensions. One thing that all of these extra dimensions have in common is that none has ever been experimentally detected; they are all mathematical predictions.

More recently, physicists have been theorizing the possibility of lower dimensionality, in which the universe has only two or even one spatial dimension(s), along with one dimension of time. The theories suggest that the lower dimensions occurred in the past when the universe was much smaller and had a much higher energy level (and temperature) than today. Further, it appears that the concept of lower dimensions may already have some experimental evidence in cosmic ray observations.

Now in a new study, physicists Jonas Mureika from Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles, California, and Dejan Stojkovic from SUNY at Buffalo in Buffalo, New York, have proposed a new and independent method for experimentally detecting lower dimensions. They’ve published their study in a recent issue of Physical Review Letters.
www.physorg.com...
In 2010, a team of physicists including Stojkovic proposed a lower-dimensional framework in which spacetime is fundamentally a (1 + 1)-dimensional universe (meaning it contains one spatial dimension and one time dimension). In other words, the universe is a straight line that is “wrapped up” in such a way so that it appears (3 + 1)-dimensional at today’s higher energy scales, which is what we see.

Hellooooooooooo

can anyone explain this for me, please.

thank you

I could be wrong [ maybe skipped over something ] .. but it basically just sounds like they are attempting to prove that there are more dimensions than we think. They think there are dimensions hiding within the dimensions that we already know about. [ someone please correct me if I'm wrong.. perhaps my brain is at it's end for the evening, haha ]

This is a little heavy for me. I understand the concepts behind what they are looking for but studying cosmic rays to find it.. I am puzzled. I hope some intelligent ATS'er can shed some light on this in a way that someone "simpler" like me might understand.

You are wrong.

What he is saying is that there is one dimension of space and one of time.

You have to understand, every Physicist has a different theory these days and like the article say they are almost all unmeasurable. Making more of a belief set rather then science.

Maybe they'll find a Annunaki, lol.

If you want to go to the source (and not an interpretation in the OP),
here it is

reply to post by Stormdancer777
a most interesting post BUT i think these people with the extra large IQ would be better off figuring out how to get more efficient sources of energy in our realm . Its like saying there is a certain species of fly about to go extinct on a planet in the Andromeda galaxy

Sounds similar to the holographic universe theory.
The way I interpret this is that there is actually less than 3 spatial dimensions and its our human form of perception that makes us think there is 3. It could also.be saying that there was originally only 1 dimension of space but because of higher energy levels it has split into 3 and will continue to fragment as energy levels increase(possible tie in with new state of consciousness thing we hear about?).

What it is basically saying is that our universe consists of one dimension of space and one dimension of time. but due to the high energy of the universe, it caused the universe to "bend" per say, to create the illusion of there being 3 spatial dimensions. I personally think it is a bit more out there then other theories.

*I'm not completely sure this is what he is saying.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

(PhysOrg.com) .

More recently, physicists have been theorizing the possibility of lower dimensionality, in which the universe has only two or even one spatial dimension(s), along with one dimension of time. The theories suggest that the lower dimensions occurred in the past when the universe was much smaller and had a much higher energy level (and temperature) than today. Further, it appears that the concept of lower dimensions may already have some experimental evidence in cosmic ray observations.

In 2010, a team of physicists including Stojkovic proposed a lower-dimensional framework in which spacetime is fundamentally a (1 + 1)-dimensional universe (meaning it contains one spatial dimension and one time dimension). In other words, the universe is a straight line that is “wrapped up” in such a way so that it appears (3 + 1)-dimensional at today’s higher energy scales, which is what we see.

I will give it a shot. I wrote about this for someone else who wanted to understand; but, I cannot remember the thread. You are not alone, string theory and extra dimensions can be tough to understand. The beginning point is simple physics. Gravity holds things together because of mass, the more mass a thing has, the more gravity it creates, we are all taught about that in school, Newtonian physics and we can understand and see it in the world around us.

As we got better at seeing smaller and smaller things we were finally able to see the sub-atomic level and then everything fell apart. Specifically, gravity no longer made sense. On a sub-atomic level there is insufficient mass for atoms to stay together. Other problems emerged, my particular favorite is the fact that two completely unconnected particles will respond to each other. Basically it is as if whenever someone in England sneezed, you did too at the same time, every time. No explanation. In humans we would say it was ESP or some psychic connection; but, that is poo pooed by science. Problem for science is that it happens on a sub-atomic level and there is no ignoring it.

The scientists who say there is no afterlife or God have a very big problem making sense of things on a sub-atomic level so they developed "strong theory". String theory is the idea that everything is connected on some one dimensional level. String theory still had a problem, couldn't explain gravity and why it made no sense. Not to be deterred science hypothesized that there must be other dimensions that have things we don't witness effecting things in this universe. Other dimensions of reality. They kept increasing the number of other dimensions needed every time something they knew to be true on a sub-atomic level. Eventually some were saying there were hundreds of alternative universes. Problem is they could test or prove any of it.

The current state of science is the search for the Higgs Boson particle. This is a theoretical particle that is also called the "God Particle" by scientists. The Large Hadron Collider was built to find this particle. Another problem, if they find the particle it violates the laws of physics and if they don't find it, it still violates the laws of physics. Basically, what we discovered was that the laws of physics don't apply at a subatomic level and we don't have a logical explanation for this.

Lately some scientists have put forth the explanation that nothing we see is real, instead, they hypothesize that the subatomic is real and we are a reflection of it, that this is a fractal universe. Gets us back to lower dimensions. If this is all a projection then it must project from a lower dimension.

The reason their words are so confusing is because their theory violates logic. Don't get me wrong, I love science, I just hate to see it lie to itself and violate its own rules because if they tell the truth, the truth is that they cannot explain the universe at all. Not how it began and not how it works. There is a famous Asian physicist, sorry can't think of his name right now; but, he is on television often. He worked on these theories and there youtube videos of him.

In pop-science a different view is emerging. People have taken to saying there is no matter, per se, and that the universe is vibrational or electric. Those theories do not explain the big bang and many other things. Another thing, nobody bothers to explain what these other universes are. I like heaven and hell; but, they don't explain them at all. You may have seen the threads about how the Large Hadron Collider could be a time machine. That is because if they discover the Higgs Boson all bets are off and anything is possible. The particle would violate the rules of physics so anything is possible. Except God of course, well, that is not quite true and that is why it was named the God particle (which is no longer liked by scientists because it lets us all be in on the joke).

Just so you don't feel bad about not understanding what they had written, there is no agreement on it. Scientists began revolting when the number of dimensions kept growing, too many unknowns. Einsteins theories regarding time are also fun to look at. It is supposedly the fourth dimension, the reason, because it is not consistent, it is relative to where you are in relationship to other things. If you take a spaceship off the earth and fly away from the earth. Gravity and speed effect the relative time of the observers. Time slows down as you go faster in relationship to another body. The problem is the definition of time. Einstein determined that time was the movement of matter through space. While Einstein correctly defined what is occurring, it doesn't make common sense. Time being measured by matter, that does not exist, means there is no time. I think we know there is time, we feel it, we experience it and you cannot go backwards in time, you can only duplicate it.

This is dry stuff and I am trying to make light of it just to make it more amusing. Think about how you experience time, you experience it in your mind, your mind is aware of the fact that things happened before. The only real measurement tool that we have is our experience of life. We are self aware beings and we experience this world, it is not the other way around. We know there is time because our thoughts change, we have new experiences and emotions vary. There is not just one note in the universe.

Many scientists follow the lunacy that the only thing we know is real is matter. Poor logic leads to convoluted and desperate answers which need to get more and more complicated to avoid the obvious. The only thing we know is that we exist, this experience we live may or may not be real; but, the experience of it is the only thing we know is real. Science would rather attempt to teach that you are mechanical and your experience is an illusion; but, this is foolishness also. You don't have to worry about the afterlife if you aren't even real. Do you feel like an illusion because that is what they are saying you are if the only real thing is matter.

On an atomic level physics works and allows us to do amazing things like building the Large Hadron Collider. It is an amazing work of science and mechanics and technology. They spent billions building it so that they could prove that God did not exist, that we don't have to have a God explanation. Problem for them is if they prove or disprove the Higgs Boson it means all physics is wrong and we spent a lot of time coming up with it. Beyond that, on an atomic level physics works and quite well.

The shortest answer to your question is that the laws of physics fail on a subatomic level and the physicists are attempting to find an answer for this. The best answer they have is that there are other dimensions and they act differently than ours; but, effect ours. That there is an unknown and unknowable other thing in the universe that effects us. I can put this in very complex science speak; but, it is still the same answer. By the way, whether they discover the Higgs Boson or don't it will neither prove nor disprove there is a God. I don't agree with calling it the God particle, it is the impossible particle that has to exist if physics is to make sense and if it does then physics doesn't make sense.

The only scientists I personally trust are geologists and I know a few because I work with rocks. Geologists really mess up other scientists because they don't have a political agenda. One geologist was asked about the sphinx, he was asked its age. He examined it and said tens of thousands of years old; but, the Egyptologists did not like his answer because they measured its age based on the face and only gave it a few thousand years. The geologist pointed to the wear on the sphinx and pointed out correctly that it was wear from water and there hadn't been water there for tens of thousands of years. He also pointed out that the head was not carved at the same time the sphinx was made. All the other geologists read what he wrote and agreed.

Science works where it needs to, it works for us in this life in this world. The fact that it makes no sense on a subatomic level is okay, we don't need it to, we don't live on a subatomic level. Gravity works well enough on an atomic level, cars run, we stay on the earth and steak tastes great. On a subatomic level we don't have an answer that makes sense in a mechanical universe. Be well.

reply to post by AQuestion


I believe Michio Kaku is the theoretical physicist you were referring to.

reply to post by DevilDog0311

Thank you so very much, that is the guy. I had a mind fart and couldn't remember. To the OP, go to youtube, type in the mans name and you find videos of him explaining what he believes. He is a very nice man, explains his position well for non-physicists and gives good presentations. I believe he is completely sincere in what he believes although I disagree with him, I still think he presents his position well.

reply to post by AQuestion


Michio is awesome, he puts the mind boggling physicist jargon into terms that the average person can understand. He has a lot of interesting and plausible theories as well, I see him all the time on the History, Discovery, and Science channels.

reply to post by DevilDog0311


I like him also and first became aware of him on a show about string theory, he was fantastic, open and clear. I prefer geologists but much prefer this guy over Hawkins who I find pompous and Hawkins does not like to be questioned, he is very arrogant.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


you might be interested in this thread - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Wouldn't it be freaky if aliens are in fact inhabitants of another dimension on earth? And we are getting momentary glimpses of each other?

I often feel that the "end of the universe", does not exsist. And when the "end" is actually reached, it would be nothing more than the intersecting of dimensions. Which reach out in different directions. Crossing over each other in some points. Ouch my brain hurts...

reply to post by AQuestion

Your post has no bearing on what is described in the linked article. You have taken your own misunderstanding of modern physics and written an essay about it. I hope no-one takes what you say seriously, for their sakes; you're propagating ignorance and confusion.

To understand the OP article, all you have to do is realize is that a 'dimension' in spacetime is not a separate place or a different universe, like in The Twilight Zone; it's just a direction. In our universe, things seem to have three physical dimensions (they have a top and a bottom, a left and a right side, a front and a back) as well as one of time (things also have a past and a future). Some physicists think there are more spatial dimensions (directions) than just three, but right now we don't need to worry about that.

What the article is saying is that, in the past, the universe may have had fewer dimensions than it does now. Maybe things had only two spatial dimensions: they had a top and a bottom, a left and right side, but no front and back. Or maybe they only had one physical dimension – left and right – and not even a top and bottom. But they still had a past and a future.

Ideas like this, intriguing as they seem, are not really for people who don't have a physics background to worry about. Unless one has had a very specialized education, one is almost certain to misunderstand it, and to get confused. Rule of thumb; if your knowledge of mathematics doesn't go much beyond high school level, it's best to leave physics to the physicists.

Originally posted by elouina
Wouldn't it be freaky if aliens are in fact inhabitants of another dimension on earth? And we are getting momentary glimpses of each other?

I often feel that the "end of the universe", does not exsist. And when the "end" is actually reached, it would be nothing more than the intersecting of dimensions. Which reach out in different directions. Crossing over each other in some points. Ouch my brain hurts...

You might enjoy reading Jacques Vallee, he was the French scientist that was represented in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind". He worked on project Blue Book with Hyneck. He believes that UFOs are not alien; but, are instead from another dimension. He stated that they violate the rules of physics. You hear people talking about a coming awakening, what if they became aware that this is not all there is, they would have limited choices. They could believe in alternate universes, aliens, or God. The one you picks is the one you gets.

reply to post by AQuestion


That was a great post AQ, nice clear and easy to understand. It all sounds like they know what they are talking about but are talking about nothing. As to nothing exists anyway so they are right all along saying that they know nothing and talk about nothing so there is nothing.

As to all of the earth quakes that we are having, do you think if the oceans of this world stared to apply more pressure on the sea floor that there would be more movement and thus more earth quakes. Lets say that 100+ years ago when there were more Ice on the caps that the pressure on the earth was more equal, now that the caps are melting, does it not make sense that with more water now there is more pressure on the the floor and thus more movement and that leads to more quakes.

Just thinking out loud.

JS

reply to post by jsettica


Dear JS,

Thank you for your kind words. I try to explain quantum physics to people in common language and I believe it can be done, I believe we are capable of quite a lot if we try, including understanding very complex things if presented in the language of people rather than experts, I hate buzz words.

I do not wish to get too off topic. Your question about the quakes is a good one. There is a weather lady, don't remember her name but I found her videos on Youtube. She proposed that the sun was causing changes in part. of the atmosphere that were causing the quakes. It is somewhat reasonable except the sunspot activity has been tracked and she couldn't prove that prior sunspots were related to quakes. Same for the oceans, it is simple. We have had ice ages before come and go, the sea level has changed many times; however, nobody has proven a correlation between that and earthquakes.

In the same way that quantum physics violates physics, the quakes and volcanoes do not fit a reasonable pattern. The shifting of the magnetic pole is a more likely culprit; but, there are problems with that also. If you believe in a fractal universe (subatomic realities projecting into our perceived reality) then none of this makes sense. You begin having to come up with insane and unprovable alternate realities. The rules of physics have failed to explain what they know exists. I believe we experiencing "birth pangs". I often ask people if everything is normal then we wouldn't expect the expectable to happen this month, enough strange things have occurred; but, nobody takes me up on my bet anymore. We all know it is going to just getting weirder and weirder.