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Kiss Your Internet Goodbye!

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posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 08:39 AM
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Anyone who thinks it can't happen are fooling themselves. You have no idea (free people) just how violent and bad things can get. Perhaps you're not capable of understanding the depth of evil in the minds of those who rule us. If you can't, I suggest you take an in-depth look at what happened back in Nazi Germany (i.e. how they thought, what gave rise to Hitler's control, what he his thoughts and plans were and how lulled and blinde Germans were) It's worth the time.

I grew up thinking these things could never take place again. (Thanks to the socialisation/indoctrination of public education
) Thinking that the good people who had this lesson seared into their minds would NEVER stand for it. 'Course, that was back before MTV and personal computers. Our country has become so doped up and lulled into complete complacency, by the time something happened and people decided to rise up, it'd be too late. The machine would eat their arse for breakfast or throw them away forever in some detention facility. Wake up! Your worse nightmares havn't even begun!

I don't mean to be a doomsayer, but tyrannical governments will do any damn bloody thing they want. Your guns and ingenuity and computer expertise most likely won't make any difference at all. That's why right now, at least while we've still got a semblence of Democracy, we've GOT to work to correct the wrong course we're taking. We've got to recalibrate and push back the demonic workings of the elites so they can't pull off their diabolical coup!




posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by Heratix
is it called the patriot act?
from what i understand(and i am very likely wrong..as u will understand if u read my welcome to ats message)it just about nullifies the first amendment?
sry to bother u with this but i am welsh(u.k)so i dont quite understand your gov type...lol


Heratix, here's a good article addressing your question.




The Star Chamber Is Back

by Paul Craig Roberts

The biggest threat to freedom, however, is the full-scale assault on what 18th century English jurist William Blackstone called "the Rights of Englishmen" and Americans know as civil liberties.

President George Bush and his Attorney General, John Ashcroft, have resurrected the "Star Chamber," made infamous by the Stuart kings in the 17th century for arbitrary, secret proceedings with no right of appeal.

Today, American citizens can be arrested and held in secret indefinitely without being charged.

The Bush administration has sacrificed the Bill of Rights to its "war on terror." As Elaine Cassel conclusively demonstrates in her forthcoming book, The War on Civil Liberties (Lawrence Hill Books), the "war on terror" is in truth a war on the first, fourth, fifth, sixth, and eighth amendments to the Constitution.
www.antiwar.com...


Hope this helps break down what's really happening.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 10:02 AM
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we have had the same problem here for a while dude

"Anti-terror law was used instead as an information-gathering exercise for the British security forces, a tool to intimidate dissent, to criminalize political activity. Demonized Irish people were only the first victims. Soon enough, the same laws were used against members of the British Black Power movement, and those engaged in the struggle against police brutality or for immigrants' rights.

In the 1980s, working class white families found themselves on the receiving end of the same police tactics that had been honed in the "war on terror" in Ireland when hordes of London cops and MI5 intelligence operatives invaded rural coal mining communities and infiltrated the labor unions during the decisive miners' strike in 1984. "I'm seeing another side of the story now," one miner's wife told a reporter then. But she was seeing it far too late."

i know this because i come from a mining community and seen it in action.
i have a friend who was arrested for"an arrestable offence"..they would not state the offence...is this freedom?
here is the link m8
www.workingforchange.com...
the article is i think a message from a group to the the american poeple about the patriot act

[edit on 17-8-2004 by Heratix]



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
right now, at least while we've still got a semblence of Democracy, we've GOT to work to correct the wrong course we're taking. We've got to recalibrate and push back the demonic workings of the elites so they can't pull off their diabolical coup!


How?

Regardless as far as your other comments. It would sure take ALOT for things to get as bad as you envision but change is desperatly needed and the people need to start governing the govt. again instead of vice versa.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by build319

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
right now, at least while we've still got a semblence of Democracy, we've GOT to work to correct the wrong course we're taking. We've got to recalibrate and push back the demonic workings of the elites so they can't pull off their diabolical coup!


How?



1. Vote Bush out of office, first.

2. Turn off the TV, put down the beer & chips and get politically active, at the local level.

3. Write, call, fax, email representatives demanding they be accountable to the voters.

4. Pray!


That's a start.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
1. Vote Bush out of office, first.


Won't change a thing, Kerry is just as bad




2. Turn off the TV, put down the beer & chips and get politically active, at the local level.

Can a get an AMEN!?! .....but I still wants ma beer!!!



3. Write, call, fax, email representatives demanding they be accountable to the voters.


This is a beginning, we really need to break down the lines of a two party system to allow more views to be circulated on the public level. The internet is a good start and I actually believe this website has really set itself apart from everyone because everyone here (for the most part) is seeking the truth. Even though people here have such a diverse set of beliefs and they hit every extreme on the spectrum, we all are on here and we are all listening to each other instead of just fighting everything left and right. Of course there are a few exceptions to the norm but I am not going to get into that





4. Pray!


That's a start.


First of all, I am not religous by any means but a little faith can go a long way. Second, that is a start. I may not agree with some of your views but you are one of the only people I have seen that is at least able to answer that question (How?). Getting involved in this govt. and actually trying to make a stand without this large overhead skewed view as most groups have. Every govt. or lobbying organization has gotten so far out of hand that the politics of today has started to set us back as a whole. Not just here, but all over the world we are seeing this.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by build319
[quoteWon't change a thing, Kerry is just as bad


- No. Get the most grossly corrupt out first, then go from there. It matters.



Can a get an AMEN!?! .....but I still wants ma beer!!!


- It'll still be there. I think it would help a lot if it society worked in such a way again that it were a winder-down rather than a blocker-out for most, huh?


This is a beginning, we really need to break down the lines of a two party system to allow more views to be circulated on the public level.


- I agree.


The internet is a good start and I actually believe this website has really set itself apart from everyone because everyone here (for the most part) is seeking the truth. Even though people here have such a diverse set of beliefs and they hit every extreme on the spectrum, we all are on here and we are all listening to each other instead of just fighting everything left and right. Of course there are a few exceptions to the norm but I am not going to get into that



- Very true.



First of all, I am not religous by any means but a little faith can go a long way. Second, that is a start. I may not agree with some of your views but you are one of the only people I have seen that is at least able to answer that question (How?). Getting involved in this govt. and actually trying to make a stand without this large overhead skewed view as most groups have. Every govt. or lobbying organization has gotten so far out of hand that the politics of today has started to set us back as a whole. Not just here, but all over the world we are seeing this.


- Too right. Resurrecting the principle that we the people are the power is the point IMO. The world over.

These people are there to serve the public (at handsome salaries) not to serve their own interests.

Rather than be talked down to or ignored (except come election time) as if an ignorant inconvenient 'herd' we should have public leaders aghast that their public mandate is so thin and that half the electorate are turned off of politics.

Term limits would IMO go a long way to helping push politicians toward engaging with their public as well as anything that removes the pork barrel.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 06:27 PM
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count me in with the doom and gloomers.... the internet's days are numbered. and, that number of days might be less than 100.

a few years back AOL crashed for 2 or 3 days, and none of their customers could get on. so, obviously the simplest way to deny internet access [to 99 percent of the public] is to forbid the ISPs to grant that access. yes, this is a bit of an over-simplification, but...... when

DER ASHCROFTFEURER


says the internet is "suspended", what else could the ISPs possibly do? like trained dogs at obedience school they all lay down and play dead on command.

government apologist [right-wing] talk radio will soothe listeners with talk of nice little refund checks to reimburse them for the months of service they're PAYING for but not getting, and they will herald the return of the "more secure" internet. remember, all of this happens after a stupendous terrorist attack. while all our heads are spinning, and in the midst of a national stampede to "the nanny state" to protect us. what will happen to all those nasty, commie-loving liberals whose love of civil liberties made it easy for the terrorists to inflict that hideous terror attack????

paranoid speculation is only paranoid WITHOUT that "mega-9/11"...if that awful attack does come, all bets are off.



[edit on 17-8-2004 by victor was right]



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 06:56 PM
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Freezing internet would halt all business, even if ppl cant access internet from their homes they still have their businesses, that is IF the gov restricts it to only gov and businesses. Lets say they do cut off internet SOMEHOW the us econ would go to sH*t... and even THEY dont want that...who wants to control a poor country?



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 05:32 AM
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SIRR1, mpeake, Spiderj, kogigaiden:

I hope you've been listening well. If you've taken the wool out of your ears, i'll take it off your hands so you don't put it back in.

Anyways..

I doubt there'll be an end to the internet. There would more likely be a global version of AOL, I'd say. They'll continue to target and shut down the websites they don't like, which won't effect the business/money side of things at all. Anonymity will continue to be chipped away, and privacy/p2p/encryption techniques will be quashed. Anyway, it's always incremental, so we should be able to continue to keep ahead of them.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 08:41 AM
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I love that Avatar Stoneskull!


To Build and SminkeyPinkey - thanks for sharing your thoughts. And thanks for all who have popped on to voice your opinions. It's been an interesting thread. Nice to see one that isn't polluted by petty arguments.

Build - go out and stump for your favorite candidate, from whatever level local to national, hand out flyers, volunteer your time.. then.. you can go home and enjoy all the beer your mouth can suck down - feeling especially good in the knowledge that you have actually taken the power back and are using it as we all should. Drink one for me while yer at it.
This is what we should all be doing.

I've thought about trying to put together a concert/festival/voter registration drive in our arts district to raise money. I know people that could make that happen. What could be more cool than that?


Another thing I've thought about is maybe canvassing poor neighborhoods, helping folks to register to vote and then committing myself to driving them to the polls.

Howard Dean's organization revolutionized campaigns with his brilliant internet campaign. It was incredible. The other candidates were in shock and then copied him. That's power. It was so powerful, in fact, that it shook the two parties to their foundations. Enter the mainstream media as the ESTABLISHMENT TWO PARTY attack dog and he was smeared right out of it. He - the people - became too powerful and neither party was willing to let the good Dr. represent reality! His campaign proved the mass number of real people out there who are sick to death of this two party nonsense. That's the power of the net. It scares the powers that be to the core. Gone are the days of their total control of information. Right now they're probably figuring out ways of how to control info on the net (here in the states). Control over the IPs sounds like one way. We CANNOT let that happen! It'd be like going back to the dark ages!



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 11:52 AM
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I don't know how, but North Korea has successfully quarantined their internet I believe.

Now I need an IT person to correct me if I'm wrong, but IP addresses are essentially coordinates, right? Your computer sends coordinates which route your request to the proper location on the phone grid and you access the computer there, right?

If that was the case, then monopolizing the phone system and equipping it with stations designed to disregard any unrecognized packet (no exceptions) would make it possible to confine access to approved computers, and the only way to hack through would be to disguise your request as a voice conversation, which would require the adoption of an entirely new kind of encryption, which both sides of the data exchange would have to have before they could communicate. All you'd have to do is find a way to keep a new encryption system from being spread over your "approved internet"- the obvious way to do this is by making the internet read only except from locations with the proper security clearance.


I'm a network engineer who worked for a Tier 1 ISP for about 6 years.

Basicly an IP is a series of 4 octets that are used as a unique identifier for any particular machine, server, printer, whatever you want. The Internet is a series of Networks that allow comminication between them. Each network is allocated a block of IP's depending on their needs. It rides across an independant network from the telephone system.

In order to "shut down the internet" you would basicly need full cooperation of every country and every network within that country.

Now, i remember bout 4 years ago the government tried to come in and install Rapter firewalls to moniter traffic on our network. Lets just say it didn't go over well and for some odd reason 0
the trafic didn't seem to flow correclty over their firewalls. The project was scraped.

Now a word aobut networks.. the smallest networks or Tier 3 are basicly your local providers that have 56k dialup connections for a small group of people. They probibly have a single T3 to support all of their traffic. There are aproximalty 24 56k lines in a T1 and there are 28 T1's in a T3 to give you an idea of Bandwidth.

Tier 1 ISPs such as sprint, L3, At&T etc.. have multible OC192 (192 T3's) some of them running DWDM (Dense wave Division Multiplexing) which allows for the white light of an OC192 to be broken up into bandwidths of 8 nanometers to allow for several OC192's to travel across a single piece of fiber. Can you say Disgusting ammounts of traffic.

That is not to mention the Tier 1 providers in Europe, asia, africa, Austrailia, Canada. etc...

Even if you shut down all of the Telephone lines there woudl still be the internet becasue there is so much fiber layed down that is used only by the Tier 1 ISPs.

Back to Ip's in order to block or maipulate who does and does not get to a group of Ip's you must first either have direct controle of that IP's network, or have direct controle of the Router or switch that connects the group you want to controle. Basicly one side of the line or the other. Then again all you need to do is to Spoof your IP if you dont mind sending somethign out and not caring if it gets back to you Ie.. a network attack.

As for Korea locking down their network BWAAA baaahahahahah yea right. I spent 2 years in network security workign with the FBI. Korea was a free for all as for boxes exposed for hacking. Almost every Hacked box I found that was beign used for threats, attacks, hacking, etc were all from compromised boxes in Korea or China. The worlds hackers own their networks.

To be compleatly honest.. if the Government wanted to limit or controlle the internet. Tehy would need to hire a very large ammount of very skilled Black hat hackers becasue the white and grey hats would never do it and the Black hats would only do it for the money and at the same time put in so many backdoors for their firends it would be useless anyway.

Wraith

[edit on 18-8-2004 by wraith30]



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 12:30 PM
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Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, Wraith.

Remember, the vast majority of internet users don't know didly about the mechanics. It would be fairly easy to wipe out a huge segment of users. And as far as those folks the gubmint would have to hire.. trust me, they're out there and more than willing to do whatever they gotta do to make some nice jack, their country be damned.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, Wraith.

Remember, the vast majority of internet users don't know didly about the mechanics. It would be fairly easy to wipe out a huge segment of users. And as far as those folks the gubmint would have to hire.. trust me, they're out there and more than willing to do whatever they gotta do to make some nice jack, their country be damned.


Oh yea they are out there.. but they are so chaotic I dont know if the governemt would ever really hire them.. or find them for that matter. Hell most of the Black hats I know would do more damage than what the government wanted them to and then say .. oops.

It is overall fairly easy to take down large secions of a network if you have access to the routers. But no ISP out there would hand over that lvl of controle they would never trust one of the government engineers with their networks.

We had a customer who was running BGP (Boarder Gateway Protocal) It's basicly an announcement that propigates arround the world that says he is responcible for his network. well.. he had what is called a /24 it is basicly a class C network. Class C being 256 addresses. The /24 is a statement refering to the number of bits used out of the 4 octets to determin a subnetmask which would really take me a very long time to explain.
Anyway... when you put in teh Subnet code for a /24 it woudl look like this
255.255.255.0 Which you will likely find on yoru own computers if you do a ipconfig from a comand prompt. If he had done it correctly then the announcement would have been sent out that his network was responcible for those 256 address and all woudl be good.

Well... he put 0.0.0.255 which basicly means he claimed responcibility for every IP in the world exept for the 256 addresses he ment to use. As soon as our equipment started to propigate that statement basicly ALL taffic in our network was being sent to him.... ALL OF IT!

Lets just say that all traffic in our network East of ohh... Texas was hosed.

It is really easy to fubar a network if you have access to the routers. That is why they are so heavily guarded.

Wraith



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 01:24 PM
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Those who don't believe X can happen, all I have to say is think 9-11. Our citizenry never THOUGHT anything like that could happen to us! It did. We cannot fathom what COULD happen. I'm not scare-mongering, I'm just trying to get people to think to the future so they can be prepared for whatever may come.

thanks again, Wraith.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by AD5673
No one is just going to shut down the internet. Come on. Who'd let them?



You're asking the wrong question.
Suppose somebody wants to steal my truck. It has nothing to do with letting them.

The question is: who's going to stop them. Everyone who's willing to kill a local police officer, perhaps a friend just doing his job, over internet access raise your hand. That's what it would come to if there was a rowdy demonstration over a violation of our rights.

*stares around blankly at a sea of un-raised hands*



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:37 PM
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As far as the phone access goes, I can see that happening, actually. I used to work for a phone company and we'd joke about how one day it was all going to be MCIATTCOMVERIBELL once everybody bought everyone else up. They could just shut out certain people/sites. Force phone companies to shut down 'net services. It's not hard to find people to torture other people so it surely can't be hard to find people to trash the net.

Trouble with the internet is... anyone can go in and put up information. From any computer anywhere. So if something's happening, and you don't want to rely on network or papers, you can go and have a pretty good chance of finding information posted from someone who was there, or knows what really happened. That's why it's such a threat. They can report that xyz happened, but someone who was actually there and saw it or was involved can post that abc is REALLY what happened. And then can post the names of those who want you to believe it was xyz. It's not all entertainment and discussion boards. There is some serious stuff out there floating around waiting to be viewed.

I'd love to think that these things are pie in the sky, but it's heating up out there, and you just can't think that things will always be as they have always been. Average people have no real idea of what the super rich and powerful can get accomplished.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:46 PM
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Here's a nice little scenario and pretext to clamp the lid down tight on the net:




Cyber Fears On
Fed's Web Plan
By Hilary Kramer
New York Post
8-17-4

With little fanfare, the Federal Reserve will begin transferring the nation's money supply over an Internet-based system this month ó a move critics say could open the U.S.'s banking system to cyber threats.

The Fed moves about $1.8 trillion a day on a closed, stand-alone computer network. But soon it will switch to a system called FedLine Advantage, a Web-based technology.

Proponents say the system is more efficient and flexible. The current system is outdated, using DOS ó Microsoft's predecessor to the Windows operating system.

But security experts say the threat of outside access is too big a risk.

"The Fed is now going to be vulnerable in two distinct ways. A hacker could break in to the Fed's network and have full access to the system, or a hacker might not have complete access but enough to cause a denial or disruptions of service," said George Kurtz, co-author of "Hacking Exposed" and CEO of Foundstone, an Internet security company.

"If a security breach strikes the very heart of the financial world and money stops moving around, then our financial system will literally start to collapse and chaos will ensue."
www.rense.com...



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond

Originally posted by AD5673
No one is just going to shut down the internet. Come on. Who'd let them?



You're asking the wrong question.
Suppose somebody wants to steal my truck. It has nothing to do with letting them.

The question is: who's going to stop them. Everyone who's willing to kill a local police officer, perhaps a friend just doing his job, over internet access raise your hand. That's what it would come to if there was a rowdy demonstration over a violation of our rights.

*stares around blankly at a sea of un-raised hands*


*raisis his hand* .. looks arround and sees he is the only one... oh.. heheh.. sorry... just kidding.. hehe..

Wraith



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond

Originally posted by AD5673
No one is just going to shut down the internet. Come on. Who'd let them?



You're asking the wrong question.
Suppose somebody wants to steal my truck. It has nothing to do with letting them.

The question is: who's going to stop them. Everyone who's willing to kill a local police officer, perhaps a friend just doing his job, over internet access raise your hand. That's what it would come to if there was a rowdy demonstration over a violation of our rights.

*stares around blankly at a sea of un-raised hands*


*raisis his hand* .. looks arround and sees he is the only one... oh.. heheh.. sorry... just kidding.. hehe..

Wraith



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