La Bruzzo wants to drug test welfare recepients...

Originally posted by Cosmic4life
reply to post by macman

 

Man, you really are one squared away jarhead !

It's those " masters " telling you to jump that are the biggest parasites.

Public Welfare is a drop in the ocean.

Why don't you grow a pair and take a shot at the real scumbags in society, the Establishment.

But their too big for you aren't they, they have lawyers, or maybe your in a position where you are unable to criticize the Guberment so you take the soft easy target of welfare recipients.

Your masters are your problem, a free man has no masters and is subject to no-one.

Cosmic...

WOW. Your assumptions are by far one of your weaknesses.
Jarhead? Um, no. What does that matter?
You are a doofus at best.

Again, "its societies fault" boo hoo. I don't buy into the BS you are pitching.
Fact is Welfare is from the Govt teat. When you suckle the breast of the Govt, you are beholden to them.

A free man is not one on welfare. You prove my point.

Fact is Welfare is from the Govt teat. When you suckle the breast of the Govt, you are beholden to them.

i disagree with this, but only because of the fact it is not seen that way when it is the other way around.
are the government beholden to the people who's teets the government suck off? do governments care what people want when they are sucking up all your taxes and spending it where they see fit and passing laws you have no say in?

the majority of people are only bothered about people on welfare, end of story. they are using the drug thing as an excuse to give poorer treatment to certain sections of society and excuse them essentially becoming slaves and having to do everything the government says outside of looking for work.

i agree the government should have guildlines and conditions for recieving help, but anything that involves snooping around the house and subjecting people to searches etc is not fair and basically sounds the opposite americans claim to stand for.

if people are truely bothered about people on drugs spending welfare on drugs, then maybe the best way to tackle it would be to incorprate it into the conditions for recieving benefit but in a fair way that is not forced on those doing nothing wrong.

if you are arrested for taking drugs then your benefits can be affected, seeing as though you recieve benefits as long as your looking for work, it could be argued those on drugs are doing themselves no favours in making themselves employable, but this would have to be done on alchy's to.

it would make more sense to target those who have been arrested for offenses rather than target the whole welfare group just because people have some sort of vendetta against them and would love to see them all go through hell to satisfy themselves.

by targetting only the people who have been arrested for offenses you are also cutting the costs considerably,
the police already do drink/drug testing on people who have been arrested for such things anyway.

reply to post by lifeform11


Your retort is in theory. I appreciate it, understand it and agree whole heatedly. The Govt should be subservient to us, the citizen.
But, it is just not that way right now. And, they have control of the purse.
If I am going to give you money to live on, when I tell you to do something, you had better do it. If you cry foul, then I cut you off. Very easy.
If I don't give you money and I tell you to do something, your reply should be to get lost.
And to even go further, I don;t think money should be given out for welfare. If anything, the person should be given an allotment of food, clothing and some shelter on a temporary basis.
If the person is not capable of self sustainment , then they should be taken care of to an extent.

reply to post by bluemirage5


To answer your question would be very off topic. Lets just say that for reasons which are not explainable, they are very enjoyable. Try to explain to someone who has never seen a rolercaster how much fun it is to ride on, and why it is so much fun. That would be really hard, yeah?

I have seen things, felt things and experienced the the world in ways which are so foreign they defy explanation. I have learned and grown, become a better person, that it for sure. I would not want to deprive anyone of these experiences, but nor do I feel public money should finance them.

If the world was a diferent type of place entirely, perhaps some of these experiences would be availabel vis health care professionals, or in schools. I honestly think that some of them are that valuable. But allas, this society does not understand. So it will never happen. In the mean time, in these hard economic times, I doin't feel our tax money should be spent on propping up the dope habit of the unemployed.

Think of it like this:

You earn money
you pay tax
government pays benafits
unemployed buys dope
Street dealer buys in bulk
Street gangs organise imports
dealers import from internationl suppliers
overseas gangs purchase from growers
Growers protected by gang leaders.

Do you want your tax money to go into arganised crime? Do you want your tax money to pay for lazy layabouts who do not want to go out and get work, but just sit arround all day smoking pot?

I don't. LLet them work for their drug money. I did.

Originally posted by dereks

...The "missing" money in fact was announced well before 9/11....

Rumsfeld announced it to Congress the day before 9/11. The funds have never been accounted for.

Originally posted by Mr Headshot
They also need to make foodstamps good for commodities only. I can't tell you how many people come into where I work (Walgreens) and buy candy, chips, ice cream, and soda. It's the most frustrating, disrespectful thing.

The problem is that there is no legal definition of junk food for one thing. It's not up to the government to dictate what you eat for another. And lastly, poor people drink stuff like Kool-Aid and soda because it's cheap. But maybe we should just put poor people on a bread and water diet.

reply to post by Kryties


You're absolutey right... the idea of mandatory drug tests in employment, and for 'welfare' is appalling! Love your signature, it's awesome..
Vicky

Originally posted by Sagittarian69



Best comparison. And, my answer is no. Even though many students are drug users. Here is why this is different, Students are taking out loans to better themselves and become (hopefully) productive members of society. Welfare recipients are just that. The only indication that they are trying to become productive is when the welfare stops because they got a job. It is the desire to rid ourselves of deadbeats and leeches that I uphold the idea of drug testing them.

Of course, if the cost is higher than just keeping them it will make this debate moot. But, heck, I am enjoying it.

Still new to ATS so this didn't come out the way I wanted lol

edit on 19-3-2011 by Sagittarian69 because: (no reason given)

If using drugs is bad and likely to cause employment problems, then a student should certainly be held just as accountable. It's not just loans, but grants. They don't have to pay the money back. Why should I have to pay for some pot-head to sit in college classes that will never amount to a job because he is a stoner?

Most welfare recipients were productive members of society. who wound up on welfare through no fault of their own.

Also consider the fact that MANY people on foodstamps, or who get Section-8 housing, DO in fact work full time.

The whole notion of deadbeats and leeches is propaganda meant to foster class division.

Sure, let's no blame the people in control for screwing everything up, we'll blame the poor person who has nothing.

Originally posted by macman
Again, how is this even an issue?
When you are on the Govt handout, you are at the whims of the Govt.
If you are to receive money from taxes, then why would anyone be surprised when asked to do submit to a drug test?
What do people have to hide?
If the money is truly important, then there should be no fuss from those receiving.
Otherwise, stop taking the money. Stop expecting something for nothing, with no strings attached when it is for nothing.

The old "if you got nothing to hide" routine. I think we should put a camera in your bedroom. I want to see what happens in there, make sure you aren't a deviant terrorist.

More to the point though, I don't want my tax dollars being wasted on a useless government program. What do you think drug testing is going to accomplish anyway?

Originally posted by macman


You are right. People do have the right to life liberty and so on.
They have the right to not submit to a drug test. Then they have the right to not get Govt funds.
Pretty easy.
Again, when the master says jump, you say how high.
This is not Unemployment or Social Security, this is for welfare. BIG DIFFERENCE.

I paid taxes all my life. I have no problem taking some back now that I am in serious need. And it's none of your business if I smoked a joint last weekend.

Originally posted by StigShen

Originally posted by macman
Again, how is this even an issue?
When you are on the Govt handout, you are at the whims of the Govt.
If you are to receive money from taxes, then why would anyone be surprised when asked to do submit to a drug test?
What do people have to hide?
If the money is truly important, then there should be no fuss from those receiving.
Otherwise, stop taking the money. Stop expecting something for nothing, with no strings attached when it is for nothing.

The old "if you got nothing to hide" routine. I think we should put a camera in your bedroom. I want to see what happens in there, make sure you aren't a deviant terrorist.

More to the point though, I don't want my tax dollars being wasted on a useless government program. What do you think drug testing is going to accomplish anyway?

What does my bedroom have to do with drug testing welfare recipients?
Nothing.
I am not on welfare, thus I do not have to abide by the rules revolving around welfare.
Cut welfare and then we don't need tax dollars going to drug tests.

reply to post by Shamatt


And who protects those gang leaders???

Wait for it

YOUR GOVERNMENT!

Yes, thats right

YOUR GOVERNMENT!

Are you at all aware of what your Government is really involved in? They are NEVER going to stop the flow of illegal substances because it's BIG business, YOUR Govt is profiting off it....MEGA bucks too. Not to mention illegal weaponry on the black market, supplying militas your Govt prefers at the time only to turn on them years later. Are any of you aware at all of a large boeing US airforce plane flew in to a neighbouring country with illegal weapons and illegal drugs? It happened just 2-3 weeks ago. Can you all explain to me why the US Military refuses to destroy all the poppy fields in Afghanistan??? No expense is spared by your Govt in many countries; if you only knew what they got up to half of the time. Makes the welfare recepients look like a walk in the park and only a tiny tiny dent on your Govt's budget. This is a Govt YOU elected to run YOUR country. Not one of you question your Govt expenditures, not one of you!

None of you have the god given right to decide how one lives their life, not even welfare recepients. The system put them there in the first place and there is nothing you can do about it. They may live off a measly tiny amount of your taxes but I know for a fact that those not on welfare OWE much much more coin to our nations because of your loose and very irresponsible behaviour everytime you pull out that credit card you don't have the money to pay for up front, with 2nd and 3rd mortgages to pay for your homes, cars and other rediculous spending habits. Your welfare recepients don't owe our countries.....YOU do, thats right YOU owe us! Everytime you go out and use someone's elses money for YOUR buying habits, MY country (and others) suffers the consequences.

Compare how much welfare recepients receive each week to YOUR debt YOU owe your nation that owes MY nation and many other nations you borrowed from!

If none of you get that, then I'm dealing with brainless idiots here.

Welfare money ALWAYS ends up back in to the system ie, rent, utilities, food, clothing, petrol etc.

So when are YOU going to take responsibility for your own debt? You want the poor to pee in a cup for a bit of coin but I want YOU to pee in a cup everytime you make purchases you don't have the money up front for! Every time you shop without using your own money I PAY FOR! So do I have a say? You better believe it!

reply to post by bluemirage5


Sorry, but I owe nothing to anyone.
I have made my own way in life and expect the same from everyone.

reply to post by macman


You don't have a credit card?

BS

99% of those with jobs have a CREDIT CARD!

Don't tell me you paid your own way in life......someone paid for you somewhere along the way and my bet is YOU DO HAVE A CREDIT CARD and my bet is YOU DO OWE your bank that owe me.

Originally posted by macman


What does my bedroom have to do with drug testing welfare recipients?
Nothing.
I am not on welfare, thus I do not have to abide by the rules revolving around welfare.
Cut welfare and then we don't need tax dollars going to drug tests.

Let people starve in the streets. That's your solution? Because really, that's not going to happen. What will happen is that millions of innocent people will be victimized by a crime wave the likes of which the world has never known. In fact, It would trigger an all-out anarchy rebellion in the US.

EDIT to add: And as far as your bedroom goes, stop asking questions. We are installing the camera to prove you have nothing to hide.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

Sorry, but I owe nothing to anyone.
I have made my own way in life and expect the same from everyone.

No man is an island. Did you build your own house, build the car you drive, grow all your own food, etc.?

And what are you going to do when suddenly your money is worth nothing, your education is no longer useful, and the looters have burned your house down?

If you are all about making your own way in the world, I hope you never pick up the phone to call a cop or an ambulance. I hope a flood or a hurricane or a twister ever rips through and destroys your town. Because you know what? You're absolutely right. You're on your own, you don't need anyone's help.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by macman

 

You don't have a credit card?

BS

99% of those with jobs have a CREDIT CARD!

Don't tell me you paid your own way in life......someone paid for you somewhere along the way and my bet is YOU DO HAVE A CREDIT CARD and my bet is YOU DO OWE your bank that owe me.

edit on 19-3-2011 by bluemirage5 because: (no reason given)

First, I currently do not have CC.
That has nothing to do with welfare. This idea that you can defend welfare by deflecting from it to me and whether I have credit cards or not is childish.
The notion that I owe you, because I have debt, because you have money in an account with the same bank is one dimensional in thought.
The bank owns the debt, not you. They borrowed from you, provided a return for the borrowing to lend to me (hypothetically). You do not in turn own my debt, the bank does.

No, since 16 I have held at least 1 job, mostly 2. I pay my way through life. I did have CC, but paid them in full. I did not file any chapter, nor did I try to weasel my way out of my debt.
Spare me the cock on bull.

Thanks.
Who's next?

Originally posted by StigShen

Originally posted by macman


What does my bedroom have to do with drug testing welfare recipients?
Nothing.
I am not on welfare, thus I do not have to abide by the rules revolving around welfare.
Cut welfare and then we don't need tax dollars going to drug tests.

Let people starve in the streets. That's your solution? Because really, that's not going to happen. What will happen is that millions of innocent people will be victimized by a crime wave the likes of which the world has never known. In fact, It would trigger an all-out anarchy rebellion in the US.

EDIT to add: And as far as your bedroom goes, stop asking questions. We are installing the camera to prove you have nothing to hide.

edit on 3/19/11 by StigShen because: (no reason given)

I live by no notion or agreement of this. If you provided me my house, then you would have a solid leg to stand on.
As for letting people starve, I guess only if they either refuse to submit to a drug test or fail it. But, that is on the notion that all of those on welfare are stupid, and can't provide for themselves. I guess I have more faith in my fellow man then you or those that support welfare.
I know that ordinary people are capable of extraordinary actions and accomplishments.

Making poverty uncomfortable is the best solution.

Originally posted by StigShen

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

Sorry, but I owe nothing to anyone.
I have made my own way in life and expect the same from everyone.

No man is an island. Did you build your own house, build the car you drive, grow all your own food, etc.?

And what are you going to do when suddenly your money is worth nothing, your education is no longer useful, and the looters have burned your house down?

If you are all about making your own way in the world, I hope you never pick up the phone to call a cop or an ambulance. I hope a flood or a hurricane or a twister ever rips through and destroys your town. Because you know what? You're absolutely right. You're on your own, you don't need anyone's help.

Great, in theory, yes you are correct. I did not personally build my house and so on.
I have made my own way. I do however pay taxes, thus am afforded the emergency responders.

Nice that in your tongue and cheek remark, you show your true colors.

Originally posted by macman

Making poverty uncomfortable is the best solution.

What makes you think poverty isn't already uncomfortable. No, Sir. It seems to me you wish to make poverty grounds for second class citizenship - outside of Constitutional protections.

~Heff