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Just My Opinion on Believers

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posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 03:57 PM
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I totally agree with you...there is much evidence...which is why there are so many people who do believe that we have been visited, many who would not even publicly admit it. I would never talk it about it with anyone but my close friends and family (who also think I'm a loon because of it). That is why I have started to come here to discuss my thoughts with like-minded people...many of which probably don't openly discuss things like this with their co-workers.

I believe we have been visited by many different "aliens" (if you will). Why is it hushed by those who do know? If they exist or are visiting us why not just show up and say "hey! we're here!!" ? Here is my theory on that:

Let's put this on a small scale that we (as humans in the stage of development we are in) can fathom...

Forget aliens for a moment and focus on what we have going on here on earth. We start off as a primitive people, we start using tools and such, we progress, we deal with our problems, we make new ones, we survive, we build houses, then buildings, then factories, then organizations and so on. We discover new ways of doing things, new ways of problem solving, and technology, and the progression continues....

Our progression has not quite made it everywhere yet. Geez...it was only 1903 that the Wright Brothers successfully flew!!! Our progression as humans hit a fast pace...and now, keeps getting faster. Now we have the internet. This speed of information is causing more and more booming information,and more and more booming technology.

Now...take a look at this Encyclopedia Britannica article...

www.britannica.com...

There are many indigenous tribes of people still out there. They are protected. They are studied. Once in while they are visited by anthropologists and filmed for a documentary. What way would these people have of knowing what's out in the real world? Planes flying over maybe? Remember the movie, "The Gods Must be Crazy"? The tribal people thought planes were gods and when the pilot threw a coke can out of the plane they thought it was a gift from god and used it to crack nuts and stuff...You see where I'm going with this?

If you are over 35, you remember life without the internet. (Wow...did I just say that out loud?) We relied on the media for information. Secrets were easily kept. Now what if you took one of those indigenous people and showed him an ipod? You don't speak his language..He would assume you were magic. What if you brought him into the middle of New York...Information overload...how much could he really process? Maybe freak out and want to go home immediately. But maybe think its totally cool, and want to stay as long as you are protecting him from being hit by cab drivers and such, until he learns the ropes because he trusts you.

Now go to a universal setting...We are this indigenous tribe. Once in a while we get visited, looked at, and studied. Contact in the past from these other people (aliens) may have resulted in contamination, disease, or danger of some sort. They may have shown up and because they showed us a hypothetical Ipod, we thought they were magic, or Gods, and worshiped them. Maybe some decided to leave and go to New York. Which may have led to the strange disappearance of the Mayans, the Anasazi, the Egyptians, etc. So, like the indigenous people, our leaders who have been contacted, have chosen for us to be left alone.

I think that we have been given the calendar because planets go through changes. Just as the tribal people know that a flower will grow, open, wither, die, and come back, more advanced species will know this happens with planets as well. If we knew that a volcano was going to explode, would we come in and take the tribal people off the mountain? Yes...we would. They would be frightened, but we would take them. We would check them for parasites, stick sticks in their mouth and look down their throat, maybe a shot or two of an immunization, and i wouldn't put it past us to give them a microchip (like we do to our pets and animals we study) to keep track of their migration and such. Sound like an abduction? We know that our earth goes through changes. We know scientifically that we are due for the change.

I think we have been given our religious scriptures to help with this transition. Many people across many cultures are expecting the end. The rapture...maybe a ship to coming to evacuate us while our volcano explodes. (The "comet" Elenin, maybe?) The horseman (maybe four different alien cultures coming to "recruit" us for their planet) and we will have to decide which way to go. Interplanetary Propaganda maybe. But I do think we are close. Do I think they are trying to "invade" us? No...Mine us for energy or annihilate us? No...they would have done that already...Drop off new baby Jesus's in Jerusalem? No...But making an appearance above places we consider holy or religious may cause us to believe that they are sent by God, making us more willing to be evacuated.

You have to look to the past to know what to expect of the future....personally, all religious BS aside, if earth is going through the change that we have known to happen over and over again, take me to New York till it's over! And who knows? I may like it and want to stay.



edit on 18-3-2011 by restlessbrainsyndrome because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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tnx for starting a pretty interesting debate, so far.

the thing I can't understand is the "believe".
let's give some context:
I'm Atheist
I'm a scientist.
I didn't watch star trek (or, wait, maybe I did, when I was 6 or 7)
I enjoy watching silly pseudo-docs crippled with self-reference, wrong facts or ideas mistaken for facts.
I especially enjoy watching the superheroes of the scene selling the biggest BS to huge audiences.
I think swallowing can be an art.

ok, back to the lack of understanding:

I prefer to work with probability (PR) and plausibility (PL).

my 2 cents:
life out there? PR: 5, PL: 5
intelligent life out there? PR: 3, PL:5
visiting earth? PR:1, PL:3
having dinner with President Change°? PR:0, PL:-5

(°anyone remembering there use to be a time US people actually believed that sucker who kept on repeating the Change Mantra?)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by vinunleaded
People who believe aliens dont exist are as ignorant and annoying as those who believe any conspiracy theory thrown at them. Of course aliens exist, do you have any idea how large the universe is? According to Eistein, nothing can travel as fast as the speed of light. There's galaxies several thousand light years away. Even if aliens were advanced enough to make spacecraft that can travel at the speed of light, noone is going to spend several thousand years traveling to earth. And thats only if they know where exactly earth is.

The closest star that might have habitable planet is 581, its 20 light years away. Were developing a rocket that can travel as fast as 10% the speed of light. That will take 200 years to get to that star then the astronauts would have to look for the 'Goddilock' planets, then they probably will find that there's no intelligent life on those planets. Just to give you an idea how difficult it is for civilizations to make contact.
edit on 18-3-2011 by vinunleaded because: (no reason given)


Good post, I was watching the Nasa Ustream channel recently, its very interesting and covers a broad spectrum of subjects related to space. There is so much to consider when it comes to space and its shocking vastness.

In both time and space our tiny insignificant lives are nothing in the history of this universe. We have several technogical challenges we have to overcome, some small, some big. An example is our current inability to reach interstellar space let alone traverse it. Also in the timeline of space we are nothing but a quick flash in the pan.

Sorry I enjoy the subject of space, it takes me off topic!
edit on 18-3-2011 by CrazyMonkey because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 06:25 PM
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Oooops I got the numbers wrong there. "several thousand light years away" was wrong. I just visited my Astronomy book. The closet galaxy is the Large Magellanic Cloud galaxy and Small Magellanic Cloud galaxy which are about 200,000 light years away. Thats 200,000 years to travel to earth if they know where exactly earth is and have spacecraft that can travel at the speed of light.



Originally posted by CrazyMonkey

Originally posted by vinunleaded
People who believe aliens dont exist are as ignorant and annoying as those who believe any conspiracy theory thrown at them. Of course aliens exist, do you have any idea how large the universe is? According to Eistein, nothing can travel as fast as the speed of light. There's galaxies several thousand light years away. Even if aliens were advanced enough to make spacecraft that can travel at the speed of light, noone is going to spend several thousand years traveling to earth. And thats only if they know where exactly earth is.

The closest star that might have habitable planet is 581, its 20 light years away. Were developing a rocket that can travel as fast as 10% the speed of light. That will take 200 years to get to that star then the astronauts would have to look for the 'Goddilock' planets, then they probably will find that there's no intelligent life on those planets. Just to give you an idea how difficult it is for civilizations to make contact.
edit on 18-3-2011 by vinunleaded because: (no reason given)


Good post, I was watching the Nasa Ustream channel recently, its very interesting and covers a broad spectrum of subjects related to space. There is so much to consider when it comes to space and its shocking vastness.

In both time and space our tiny insignificant lives are nothing in the history of this universe. We have several technogical challenges we have to overcome, some small, some big. An example is our current inability to reach interstellar space let alone traverse it. Also in the timeline of space we are nothing but a quick flash in the pan.

Sorry I enjoy the subject of space, it takes me off topic!
edit on 18-3-2011 by CrazyMonkey because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-3-2011 by vinunleaded because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by AtruthGuy
 





My response is prove it.

Show us a real StarGate
Show us a real Alien
Show us a spaceship.


Your "response" is childish and not founded on sound logic. Let me show you why:

First, let's assume that spaceships, aliens, and stargates exist.

Next, tell me how I (one person) could lead you to these things? Obviously if such things exist, they would be considered pretty valuable from any human perspective. So how is one anonymous guy on the internet possibly going to lead you to that? What is your honest answer?

Instead of beating up on (easy) things that believers can't supply you with. Why not turn the tables on yourself? Why do you give so much belief to a jealous invisible judgemental all powerful being? He sounds very unstable which is not what we observe from what appears to be a very stable universe....

Why is God so much easier for you to believe in than aliens? What is your honest answer? How can religious documents or maniscripts possibly stand up to real modern (undeniable) encounters like 1976 Tehran UFO, 1986 JAL UFO, Phoenix Lights, and all the others...... ?


I'm really tired of logging into ATS and finding people who rip on well documented UFO incidents, yet they're happy to believe in the God their parents taught them. Sounds like those folks just use their feelings to deduce everything in their existence..... what happened to rational thought?



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by Scramjet76
reply to post by AtruthGuy
 





My response is prove it.

Show us a real StarGate
Show us a real Alien
Show us a spaceship.


Your "response" is childish and not founded on sound logic. Let me show you why:

First, let's assume that spaceships, aliens, and stargates exist.

Next, tell me how I (one person) could lead you to these things? Obviously if such things exist, they would be considered pretty valuable from any human perspective. So how is one anonymous guy on the internet possibly going to lead you to that? What is your honest answer?

Instead of beating up on (easy) things that believers can't supply you with. Why not turn the tables on yourself? Why do you give so much belief to a jealous invisible judgemental all powerful being? He sounds very unstable which is not what we observe from what appears to be a very stable universe....

Why is God so much easier for you to believe in than aliens? What is your honest answer? How can religious documents or maniscripts possibly stand up to real modern (undeniable) encounters like 1976 Tehran UFO, 1986 JAL UFO, Phoenix Lights, and all the others...... ?


I'm really tired of logging into ATS and finding people who rip on well documented UFO incidents, yet they're happy to believe in the God their parents taught them. Sounds like those folks just use their feelings to deduce everything in their existence..... what happened to rational thought?



Show me where I said I believe in God.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by AtruthGuy
 



Well your first point was to attack "atheists"..........so that kinda gave me a clue.




I don't care if you believe you was a alien in a previous life, if you cant prove it then it's BS.


Logic says that if I was another sentient being in a previous life, then it makes sense that I would not remember that life. It would undermine the purpose of this existence on a fundamental level (obviously).

So maybe you need a little faith brother.....

Ugh.... fine.

Just watch the movie 2001: Space Odyssey. If you have trouble "getting the movie" here is how to understand it:

www.kubrick2001.com/

Get it now earthman?








edit on 18-3-2011 by Scramjet76 because: spl



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 07:25 PM
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Yep. Earth is believed to have started forming 4.5 billion years ago. If that was to be represented on a highway that stretches 4.5 km, human started hunting at the last 1mm, and recorded human history can only be measured through a microscope (the last nanometer?)

The universe is said to be 14 billion year old....


Originally posted by CrazyMonkey

Originally posted by vinunleaded
People who believe aliens dont exist are as ignorant and annoying as those who believe any conspiracy theory thrown at them. Of course aliens exist, do you have any idea how large the universe is? According to Eistein, nothing can travel as fast as the speed of light. There's galaxies several thousand light years away. Even if aliens were advanced enough to make spacecraft that can travel at the speed of light, noone is going to spend several thousand years traveling to earth. And thats only if they know where exactly earth is.

The closest star that might have habitable planet is 581, its 20 light years away. Were developing a rocket that can travel as fast as 10% the speed of light. That will take 200 years to get to that star then the astronauts would have to look for the 'Goddilock' planets, then they probably will find that there's no intelligent life on those planets. Just to give you an idea how difficult it is for civilizations to make contact.
edit on 18-3-2011 by vinunleaded because: (no reason given)


Good post, I was watching the Nasa Ustream channel recently, its very interesting and covers a broad spectrum of subjects related to space. There is so much to consider when it comes to space and its shocking vastness.

In both time and space our tiny insignificant lives are nothing in the history of this universe. We have several technogical challenges we have to overcome, some small, some big. An example is our current inability to reach interstellar space let alone traverse it. Also in the timeline of space we are nothing but a quick flash in the pan.

Sorry I enjoy the subject of space, it takes me off topic!
edit on 18-3-2011 by CrazyMonkey because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-3-2011 by vinunleaded because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by Scramjet76
 


You did nothing to address his points. Show us the evidence and then we can talk.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 07:36 PM
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Just because it would take US that long to get to what WE THINK, MIGHT BE the closest habitable planet (by the way...we did not know that there were any planetary systems other than our own until less than 5 years ago) does not mean that there is not another way that we, as humans, have not thought of yet. Would you think that it is at all conceivable that, say, 300 years from now as we grow and evolve, that we may have the ability to travel around our solar system? Or is this unlikely in your opinion? How about 1000 years? 2000 years?

Our solar system is a baby, assuming you think the big bang theory is correct. Then why would you assume that making contact with other civilizations from other systems is difficult? Difficult for us with our possibly baby-like knowledge perhaps, but you don't expect a newborn to get up and run either...that would be quite amazing. We learn to control our hands, then to hold up our heads, then sit up, then crawl, then stand up, then walk before the possibility of running happens.

UFOs that have been reported by people over time are reported as moving at incredible speeds. These are speeds at which nothing we know could possibly move that fast. And then they are reported as "disappearing". Could it be that our slow little eyes cannot keep up with how fast they may be able to travel?

We babies are just learning to hold up our heads. The first person to actually leave earth to hover just above it for an hour and a half was in 1961...60 years ago! How narrow minded is it to think that what we know now is even a fraction of the limit of what we could possibly know and that we would have thought of it first? Our brains are capable of complex thinking in ways at which we do not understand yet. It's another one of those little mysteries. Why someone can get a decent bonk on the head and as they heal they become a savant in a certain area is still unknown.

Don't put a limit on what intelligent life is capable of because of what we babies know now. Step back and see the bigger picture!
edit on 18-3-2011 by restlessbrainsyndrome because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by Turiddu
reply to post by Scramjet76
 


You did nothing to address his points. Show us the evidence and then we can talk.


I don't need to address everyone's points. I have been posting, reading, and thinking for years about this "alien/ufo problem" and how to solve it. Until he admits some of his faulty logic, there is no reason to go forward. It takes awhile to type out paragraphs.

I sent him the link to the Kubrik movie to get him on the right track. I'm sure he'll have more fun figuring it out on his own.


PS- I did address his most important point. I told him why it's ridiculous to ask an ordinary person on the street (or on the internet) for physical proof like a "spaceship."

"uhhhh yeahh... right here man. Let me take you to my secret underground base and I'll show you the saucer up close."

Have you ever met somebody who can show you that? Ok didn't think so..........

edit on 18-3-2011 by Scramjet76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 03:28 AM
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To be clear, I do not believe everything that comes along in the UFO debate. I have debunked videos, (and I've fallen for some hoaxes as well, but readily admit that), and have posted threads that demand evidence for extraordinary beliefs (e.g. Project Bluebeam is a HOAX). The difference between my knowledge and belief in UFOs and ET presence is, first, my own experiences and second, the credible testimony of thousands of eyewitnesses. Other claims don't carry such weight. While the idea of a real stargate is fascinating, for example, I have never seen the existence of testimony of any credible witnesses. So, I have to relegate it to the realm of the "possible" but that's all until some evidence, either credible testimony or physical, shows up.



Originally posted by AtruthGuy

Before I post the following I am open minded that aliens MAY exist some where in the universe. I do not believe they are visiting earth. I also doubt they are reptillians, or lion people.


So, you are admitting that you are a believer, of sorts. You simply choose to believe that unless you have physical evidence in your lap, that we should then conclude that ETs are not visiting and that UFO sightings are all cases of mistaken identity.


Originally posted by AtruthGuy
This first argument drives me insane.
"Aliens Must Exist Cause God Does Not."
First for you teenagers going through "Secret Internet Atheist when mommy and daddy's not home"stage, A good amount of people have gone through that stage before noone cares and you don't have to post "There's no god..lol" in every topic. Samething applies for the kids going through the "gothic (skulls,zombies, snakes, satan everywhere etc) kids."

To you real grown up and mature Atheists. I just feel its a bit Ironic. To yell there's no god but believe in little magical gray and reptillian creatures flying in spaceships, and they have these magical/fairy, and pyschic powers is a little bit ironic.

I'm not a big tough "Internet Religous guy."



I've studied the UFO/ET issue for decades and have never heard this argument. I don't know where you've heard it, especially so often as to be at the top of your list, but I'm perplexed. Either way, your thinking is obviously very limited when it comes to "out of the box" thought processes and belief systems. I'm an atheist, however, I also believe that we have an eternal spirit that is self existent, obviating the need for a creator-god. There is nothing ironic about that. It seems that you need things to fit tightly into standard thinking patterns, otherwise, you can't handle it. In other words, you think that all atheists have to think a certain way, otherwise it is "ironic" when confronted with an atheist who diverges from your standard. Events that violate the so-called laws that our primitive "scientific" community have established are immediately rejected by you because they just don't fit the limited, dogmatic system of thought you have been told is inviolate.


Originally posted by AtruthGuy

Another argument is everyone wants to link the
"Drake Equation."

So far it has yet to be proven right. In fact correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe any part has been proven correct. I mean don't think we have found any civilizations yet because to the drake equation. (I know we havent.)


I've never been impressed with the Drake equation. It limits what is likely a limitless universe, teeming with life in much greater numbers than it allows. Infinity has no bounds.


Originally posted by AtruthGuy
Another Argument.
"Skeptics just don't want to accept that we are not alone."

Its not a point in "wanting to accept" it's more of "wanting to know".
This goes back to people who "want to believe" they will believe everything hoax or not. They ignore all opposite of their belief. Those on this site with "I WANT TO BELIEVE" in their avatars and signatures,
and have names like "humanhybrid, alienman, galaticpeace etc" ( I don't believe these are actually members of the site this is just examples of types of names here, )
will never accept anything other then aliens exist...because THEY WANT THEM TO EXIST...

They will go around calling people "trolls". I'm sure I will be called one in this thread.

Skeptics want proof we don't care for incredibly bias TV shows, Books, stories...Terribad youtube videos.
We want legit proof.



Whether you're tired of this one or not, in many cases it is true. Skeptics are often fearful of anything that breaks their little comfort level. They are convinced that humanity has discovered most of the basic laws of physics and cannot conceive of the possibility that we may be very wrong in those conclusions. In other instances, they may fear the competition with their religious bias stemming from possible life elsewhere. As for the "I want to believe" statements I've seen for so long, I for one don't want to believe nor do I need to believe. I KNOW, just as others who have seen UFOs (in my case, over a dozen. I've lost count) or have been contacted by ETs, we don't need proof, and usually we don't even try to provide proof. In a court of law, a person could be convicted or lose a civil case on the basis of eyewitness testimony ALONE, without any supporting photos or physical evidence. Such a standard hinges on the credibility of the witness. There are countless credible witnesses for an incredible variety of UFO sightings and alien contact experiences. If such testimony is sufficient for a court of law, it is sufficient for me and should be for you as well. Your demands for absolute hard, physical evidence, and similar demands of people like you, are in fact efforts to deny what in many cases is the undeniable. And besides, even if such proof were forthcoming, you would work feverishly to prove it is hoaxed, CGI'd, doctored, fabricated or manipulated. True physical evidence would NEVER be acceptable to the average skeptic.


Originally posted by AtruthGuy
Another Argument
"The aliens are already here"

My response is prove it.

Show us a real StarGate
Show us a real Alien
Show us a spaceship.

I don't care if you believe you was a alien in a previous life, if you cant prove it then it's BS. And I don't care for internet "roleplay."


It's already been proven. Countless times with the eyewitness testimony of credible eyewitnesses. In court, if you want to discredit a witness, you have to impeach their credibility. The burden is on the person challenging the testimony to prove why that testimony should not be believed. In the UFO/ET debate, it is up to YOU to DISPROVE and DISCREDIT the testimony of thousands of credible witnesses. When you've finally done that, only then can you say there is no evidence for the existence of UFOs or ETs.

edit on 19-3-2011 by Visiting ESB because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 04:36 AM
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Originally posted by Slipdig1
Whether it is a load of BS or not isn't up to you, its up to the reader. They will believe what they want.


I am the reader dipchick.


Originally posted by Slipdig1
At the moment you guys are eating up a thread made by a man that says he was in the army and saw Aliens?


You'll find I haven't posted in your or his threads. I don't give it the value of merit. Similar to how science doesn't approach creationism with an open ear - it's bunk before looking. Please be more careful when labelling someone into a category, you've already supposed incorrectly that the OP fights with his uncle. Project elsewhere.

As for the rest of the replies since my last visit - it's certainly one of the better threads for people relaying their thoughts upon the phenomena of UFOs. I envy those who have 'experienced' seeing a UFO however I do think that observational skills and the ability to pass along information are lacking within the given accounts. IT's not a slander against those who claim to have had these experiences - it's just an oddity.

As has been mentioned there have been accounts from those trained in observation, such as policemen and pilots, which still defy scrutiny. These are the accounts which keep me interested in the subject.

We need more evidence though - things to work with. Hearsay is still hearsay.

-m0r



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 10:13 AM
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I'm a proud ufo believing atheist.
On a personal level i feel there is more proof of alien visitation than there is of an all knowing god.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by restlessbrainsyndrome
Just because it would take US that long to get to what WE THINK, MIGHT BE the closest habitable planet (by the way...we did not know that there were any planetary systems other than our own until less than 5 years ago) does not mean that there is not another way that we, as humans, have not thought of yet. Would you think that it is at all conceivable that, say, 300 years from now as we grow and evolve, that we may have the ability to travel around our solar system? Or is this unlikely in your opinion? How about 1000 years? 2000 years?


We have to dream big, but before you start getting ahead of yourself. We need to a technological break through to cover great areas of space in a short amount of time. One of the benefits of ISS it helps solve or expose technical and physiological problems encountered in zero gravity. Its a good thing they now have laboratories in space where experiments can be run.


Originally posted by restlessbrainsyndrome

Our solar system is a baby, assuming you think the big bang theory is correct. Then why would you assume that making contact with other civilizations from other systems is difficult? Difficult for us with our possibly baby-like knowledge perhaps, but you don't expect a newborn to get up and run either...that would be quite amazing. We learn to control our hands, then to hold up our heads, then sit up, then crawl, then stand up, then walk before the possibility of running happens.


It would be a game of probability, after analaysis of potential planets which may harbor life. Lets say you have the technology to now traverse interstellar space and all the dangers which accompany it. It doesn't gurantee you will find life.


Originally posted by restlessbrainsyndrome


UFOs that have been reported by people over time are reported as moving at incredible speeds. These are speeds at which nothing we know could possibly move that fast. And then they are reported as "disappearing". Could it be that our slow little eyes cannot keep up with how fast they may be able to travel?


Hessdalen lights are capable of ridicolous speeds, one exposure was taken at 1/60th of a second and I love photography. To get a light trail on any camera at 1/60th second is very fast! Dont get me wrong I am not saying Hessdalen lights are responsible for all sightings. All I am saying is don't discount other feasible answers.
Hessdalen is a mystery within itself.


Originally posted by restlessbrainsyndrome

Don't put a limit on what intelligent life is capable of because of what we babies know now. Step back and see the bigger picture!
edit on 18-3-2011 by restlessbrainsyndrome because: (no reason given)



I never put a limit on what we are capable of technologically , as you have to dream big to achieve big. Sometimes the impossible becomes possible when you break the constraints of regular thinking and science and develop new science and a new attitude. Take flying for example, I am sure the Wright brothers were ridiculed, but if they could see that flight is now an every day occurance.
The difference between the Wright brothers and your every day arm chair expert is, they were out their trying to prove and develop a flying device.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by Visiting ESB


Originally posted by AtruthGuy

Another Argument.
"Skeptics just don't want to accept that we are not alone."

Its not a point in "wanting to accept" it's more of "wanting to know".
This goes back to people who "want to believe" they will believe everything hoax or not. They ignore all opposite of their belief. Those on this site with "I WANT TO BELIEVE" in their avatars and signatures,
and have names like "humanhybrid, alienman, galaticpeace etc" ( I don't believe these are actually members of the site this is just examples of types of names here, )
will never accept anything other then aliens exist...because THEY WANT THEM TO EXIST...

They will go around calling people "trolls". I'm sure I will be called one in this thread.

Skeptics want proof we don't care for incredibly bias TV shows, Books, stories...Terribad youtube videos.
We want legit proof.



Whether you're tired of this one or not, in many cases it is true. Skeptics are often fearful of anything that breaks their little comfort level. They are convinced that humanity has discovered most of the basic laws of physics and cannot conceive of the possibility that we may be very wrong in those conclusions. In other instances, they may fear the competition with their religious bias stemming from possible life elsewhere. As for the "I want to believe" statements I've seen for so long, I for one don't want to believe nor do I need to believe. I KNOW, just as others who have seen UFOs (in my case, over a dozen. I've lost count) or have been contacted by ETs, we don't need proof, and usually we don't even try to provide proof. In a court of law, a person could be convicted or lose a civil case on the basis of eyewitness testimony ALONE, without any supporting photos or physical evidence. Such a standard hinges on the credibility of the witness. There are countless credible witnesses for an incredible variety of UFO sightings and alien contact experiences. If such testimony is sufficient for a court of law, it is sufficient for me and should be for you as well. Your demands for absolute hard, physical evidence, and similar demands of people like you, are in fact efforts to deny what in many cases is the undeniable. And besides, even if such proof were forthcoming, you would work feverishly to prove it is hoaxed, CGI'd, doctored, fabricated or manipulated. True physical evidence would NEVER be acceptable to the average skeptic.


I am not fearful of anything that breaks my comfort level, I would actually welcome it. I think the discovery that there is other intelligent life out there would be amazing.

You must also acknowledge that there are so many charlatans in this field it does not help the cause. Not to mention the many hoaxed youtube videos. Then you have people who are not believers but blind believers. They have already made up their minds and accept everything as fact to consolidate their ideas. These people are convinced by every hoax video.

Lets assume the phemonena of UFOs and aliens is true, the true information is buried a mile deep in crap. So why do you think skeptics scrutinise everything ?

The blind believers only make UFOlogy appear more stupid and ridicolous and often get it wrong more than right. Where as the skeptics would provide credibility, where credibility is due.

Some people take one piece of information and they start to assume things. Suddenly they are spouting some pseudo science, which they believe makes sense, but they either made it up or read it somewhere.


edit on 19-3-2011 by CrazyMonkey because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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Was it mentioned that opinions are like assholes? Everybody's got one lol.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by greyer
Was it mentioned that opinions are like assholes? Everybody's got one lol.


lol But I hope you realise facts are different to opinions.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by Arrowmancer

Originally posted by AtruthGuy
I just want to address some of the more common arguments believers make. Its getting quite annoying hearing the same BS over and over again, when it does not make sense. Atleast not opinion.

Before I post the following I am open minded that aliens MAY exist some where in the universe. I do not believe they are visiting earth. I also doubt they are reptillians, or lion people.

Excellent. So you took the time to tell us what you didn't think about people that don't visit. Awesome. You can't show me a single shred of evidence they do not visit us, and I can show you quite a bit of evidence that has not been debunked that goes towards proof that they do. You have zero evidence. I have questionable evidence. Which gives me the advantage on the Truth Scale...



This first argument drives me insane.
"Aliens Must Exist Cause God Does Not."
First for you teenagers going through "Secret Internet Atheist when mommy and daddy's not home"stage, A good amount of people have gone through that stage before noone cares and you don't have to post "There's no god..lol" in every topic. Samething applies for the kids going through the "gothic (skulls,zombies, snakes, satan everywhere etc) kids."

Throwing this in has nothing to do with anything. If a person chooses to be atheist, no matter their age, then leave it be. Yes, ATS has gotten a bunch of folks who want to trash each other's religions but lumping non-believers into these catagories is pretty offensive and puts you on the top of the DB list. So cool it. If God does exist (and I believe He does), even the Pope himself admits that doesn't discount the possibility of alien life. And why not? More beings to convert!


To you real grown up and mature Atheists. I just feel its a bit Ironic. To yell there's no god but believe in little magical gray and reptillian creatures flying in spaceships, and they have these magical/fairy, and pyschic powers is a little bit ironic.

Again, showing your ignorance, boss. You are not exactly in a position to judge an Atheist as mature or grown up. Unless you are, of course, God. There is substantial evidence that the human mind is capable of far more than we use it for. Telekinesis, remote viewing, out of body experiences. All subjects on this Forum. I recommend you select a few and try to debunk them. And if we can do more, how is it any stretch of the imagination to believe that a technologically advanced civilization, capable of interplanetary travel, observation, anal probes and whatnot, HASNT developed those abilities, yet? Just a for-instance.



I'm not a big tough "Internet Religous guy."

That's obvious. You got on a CONSPIRACY forum to trash people who believe in aliens? Judgemental, illogical, and waaaaay out of line. Sounds like a religious zealot to me.



Another argument is everyone wants to link the
"Drake Equation."

So far it has yet to be proven right. In fact correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe any part has been proven correct. I mean don't think we have found any civilizations yet because to the drake equation. (I know we havent.)

Awesome. Show me the equation that attempts to prove we are alone in the Milky Way. Another point for us. You aren't even trying, are you?



Another Argument.
"Skeptics just don't want to accept that we are not alone."

Its not a point in "wanting to accept" it's more of "wanting to know".
This goes back to people who "want to believe" they will believe everything hoax or not. They ignore all opposite of their belief. Those on this site with "I WANT TO BELIEVE" in their avatars and signatures,
and have names like "humanhybrid, alienman, galaticpeace etc" ( I don't believe these are actually members of the site this is just examples of types of names here, )
will never accept anything other then aliens exist...because THEY WANT THEM TO EXIST...

What would you think is the defining characteristic of the human race? In my opinion, it is HOPE. To think that we are alone in this universe with no neighbors, no interstellar family, no exciting discoveries to come... it boggles me with sadness.



They will go around calling people "trolls". I'm sure I will be called one in this thread.

From Lewis Black: There comes a time when two groups of people see the same thing and just HAVE to agree on what reality is... If you pop out a thread like this that is meant to incite negative responses instead of logical and intelligent discussion, you are, in fact... at troll.



Skeptics want proof we don't care for incredibly bias TV shows, Books, stories...Terribad youtube videos.
We want legit proof.

That goes down both sides of the line. We believe there is proof. And that it is being hidden from us. It's happened before. It's happening now. You can want to believe in a thing and be prepared for it to be proven wrong. That's where hope comes in. Even if there are no ET's visiting us, you can't deny the impact the idea of ET's has had on the world since pre-historic ages. I can show you evidence all day long about the history of "Sky Gods". Show me a shred of proof anywhere in History where a civilization has expressly denied the existence of Aliens. Another point for us.



Another Argument
"The aliens are already here"

My response is prove it.

We're trying, mate.


Show us a real Alien
Show us a spaceship.






DONE AND DONE... working on the Stargate.


I don't care if you believe you was a alien in a previous life, if you cant prove it then it's BS. And I don't care for internet "roleplay."

You can't disprove it, either. It's like trying to put out a fire with a flamethrower. Why start a duel you can't hope to win?



Thanks for reading.

You're welcome.
edit on 17-3-2011 by Arrowmancer because: Sprellin n grammr



I love you.


And in regards to the
op, I get what you're saying. there is nothing wrong with wanting proof and being sensibly skeptical. However from a scientific view point I find it quite ludicrous to think we are the only sentient beings in the universe. The universe is ever expanding, there are millions, (billions? Trillions?) of galaxies out there we haven't even seen. Stars, planets, moons. All it really took for life to form on this planet (and though I do believe in God i'm taking that completely out of the equation) was the sun, water, and (possibly some say helped form life) the moon.

It is EXTREMEMLY likely if not 100% likely that the conditions that formed earth have formed other planets. I don't claim to be an astronomer or a biologist and my knowledge is extremely elementary, but I would say that the conditions that formed earth aren't exactly difficult to come by.

The feeling I got from your post, and maybe you didn't mean it that way, was like a child throwing a tantrum but instead of screaming and YELLING AND BEING ALL INTERNET HARDCORE, you seemed to say it in a condescending manner. You came on a conspiracy website, specifically chose the alien forum, and then went off on how you don't think there could be life out there and demanded we believers prove you wrong, and you also seemed pretty smug about it (again i could be wrong). Of course maybe i'm just reading to much into it as i've just grown weary of people talking that way to me. As if i'm some kind of simpleton. It's like going into an Atheist forum and preaching christianity or going into a christian forum and talking about paganism. You knew before you posted there were many believers in here that truly feel they have real proof and yet you still demand to "show" it you. Some things in this world cannot be fully explained and tangible, they can only be felt. Maybe one day you will have an experience with something that you won't be able to just brush off and then maybe you will understand why we believe the things we do.
edit on 3/19/2011 by IsisMoon21 because: had to fix choice of words



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by AtruthGuy
 


I dont blame you brother, seeing is believing - 3 of them total so far for me. and well -
your wrong - take it for what it is worth - they exist,




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