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Just My Opinion on Believers

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posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 03:50 AM
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Some great points OP, good post!

One problem here is the notion of 'believing' in something, and it's the same with religion in the way that many people experience something or see something that doesn't fit their current model of reality, then other people want to experience what they hear about because it sounds so amazing an eye opening, which many inevitably end up becoming 'believer's'. If you believe, you wonder, you preach, you hope, you have faith... but where's the decision? Where's the knowing? To bring something into your perception of reality, one needs to make a decision, because being a believer of something is to reside in 'perceptive limbo', always waiting for something and not living in the moment and acting to confirm your own truths.

This comes a lot down to the perception of duality, as instead of looking at the wider picture surrounding a situation, for example, when someone has a sighting, in most instances they'll describe what they visually saw and nothing more, not even questioning why or who etc... and because of that, you have a percentage of the population pushed into 'perceptive limbo' as they're given the choice whether to believe something exists or not, instead of knowing, giving the illusion that the individual chooses what exists in their reality depending on what they want to personally 'believe'.

Let's bring this perception closer to home, for example, a hypothetical secret military aircraft hardly known by anyone would be a good example, as people may take pictures or see it from time to time when it's being flown, but as we live in a collective reality, does the fact that many people don't believe or know about 'said craft' make it not exist? Of course not, as it's something that you could show people if you could, so knowing or not knowing is simply to do with the access, experience, or involvement with the subject at hand of the individual/populace.

The point you seem to make very well if anything is that people believe things too easily because it sounds appealing to what they want to believe, but you need to genuinely go against the grain to find truth, otherwise people are just following what they want and not the truth.


Have you ever had a sighting? I've had many sightings/experiences since a young age, I've had 5 local sightings already this year - but I'm an avid skywatcher, day and night time, so if something's in the sky I'll usually catch it. I've seen a lot of strange things that move with far more capability than anything we'd be familiar with, so my personal view for many years now is to accept all possibilities at the same time (no matter how difficult to grasp, just accept it as a possibility), gradually building on your overall perception with acquired knowledge, and stripping away the layers over time can be discarded as dis-info etc..

I hope this resonates with people, and I hope this perspective of belief offers valuable input


Peace ..v,




posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 03:54 AM
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reply to post by CrazyMonkey
 


So when you don't win the fight with your uncle your come here and take your skeptical views out on the believers? What people believe is what they believe, simple as. You won't change peoples mind by making up a "waste of time thread" in the UFO forum telling them they aren't real or stupid. Your the one that is mental trying to tell a group, that come hunting for UFOlogy, the UFO's are not and they should feel fool to believe.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 03:54 AM
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Even if the evidence was slapped right into your face, human nature is to dismiss anything that is outside the accepted comfort zone, whether it's science or religion. The only way you'd believe it would be if the media started confirming it, but even then you'd be doubtful (even though you are not a scientist and you have no ground to stand on when it comes to making informed scientific decisions about the nature of our reality). Eventually after the backlash you would come to accept it, because that's how it's been done for centuries (that includes the various beliefs of the church too - the Earth being the centre of the universe and all)

You dismiss the idea because it's not comfortable to your established reality, when in actual fact the possibility of life forms other than our own is by far more likely. It's difficult when you are told what to believe, but even harder when you follow blindly based on fear of repercussions. Isn't that how dictatorships work?

We however choose to think objectively about what our universe consists of based on evidence. You might ignorantly call technology that is more advanced than our own as "magical" but I'd just refer you to a one of Clarke's three laws, you've probably heard many times before:




Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic


There is no book threatening us with punishment if we don't believe.

Anyway, your arrogance as displayed in your mini profile "Certainly The Most Logical Thinker on this site. No Doubt about that! I have yet to be proven wrong!" means that you are quite simply stating what you consider fact rather than asking for a debate. I'm sure that there are many pilots, air-traffic controllers, doctors, scientists, former NASA employees and even astronauts who would argue differently to yourself. I'm also sure you are prepositioned to ignore these sources because that's what you are supposed to do anyway.
edit on 18-3-2011 by dodgygeeza because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by Slipdig1
What people believe is what they believe, simple as.


If only it were that easy my fine friend who promotes aliens in a teenager's house videos as factual.

You may believe whatever you wish and I have no problem with you expressing that as is your human right.

However when your belief falls onto the ears of children and they take it as factual without being taught how to question and scrutinise the information available to them then it is an injustice and a fallacy that you are promoting.

I cannot say that each time a video, eye witness testimony, radar logs, stone tablets from Mesopotamia or indeed when a natural disaster occurs that it is not some sort of ET activity.

However I also cannot say that it is some sort of ET activity.

You must base your temporary conclusions on what evidence you have available to you whilst holding onto as many possibilities as you can (including paranormal ones).

However no one is truly unbiased and my initial steps into investigation need to dismiss the obvious and more likely misidentifications made often before slowly working my way towards something more fantastical.

If a claim is made and holds up to this level of scrutiny then it truly is something worth looking into and promoting as extraordinary.

If 'believers' followed this similar mindset then I would happily welcome children into their fold to listen to some imaginative tales of bizarre and diverse cultures and technologies - like the stories of sceptic galore Mr Carl Sagan.

But this isn't done. Instead we have people claiming this to be absolute truths and provide no evidence for, or promote any interest in critical thinking for, proof.

Now this doesn't tarnish all 'believers' but whilst there is that camp and it is perceived as such there needs to be remodelling done so that those like Mclaneinc can have their viewpoint on belief held in it's own regard 'as a standard' instead of just believers all being goofy fibbers hellbent on attention and/or money.

In short; believe what you will and express it, but be mindful of stopping people questioning you or your beliefs.

-m0r



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 05:36 AM
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Originally posted by m0r1arty
In short; believe what you will and express it, but be mindful of stopping people questioning you or your beliefs.
That would depend on who does the questioning, no? Tons of people are blabbing away about standards of evidence, proof, skepticism, science, and so on. Yet it is abundantly clear the majority has no understanding of science, or the philosophy of science, the history of science, etc. at all.

I predict that the majority of "skeptics" here are not highly educated, lack proper degrees in the sciences or arts. The same would go for the majority of believers. Is this bad for the forum? Not really, but it should put people back in place when making stupid claims. If you find this to be arrogant, I don't care.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 06:15 AM
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reply to post by dodgygeeza
 



Even if the evidence was slapped right into your face, human nature is to dismiss anything that is outside the accepted comfort zone, whether it's science or religion. The only way you'd believe it would be if the media started confirming it, but even then you'd be doubtful (even though you are not a scientist and you have no ground to stand on when it comes to making informed scientific decisions about the nature of our reality). Eventually after the backlash you would come to accept it, because that's how it's been done for centuries (that includes the various beliefs of the church too - the Earth being the centre of the universe and all)


Well said, dodgygeeza. Some need more than evidence, I reckon, some want it all to just go away. I personally know people who live in a not so comfortable little box of information, insulated by religious dogma and in complete denial of scientific principles and Ancient History. Now these people are not as safe as they used to be, in fact, the little box is shaking, and is about to come apart as Enlightenment and Awakening comes to humankind. But you still cannot lure them out. They have a quick answer for anything not of their belief, Labels. they just apply a label to whatever it is, and move on. Common labels are Demon, Satan, Satanist, Mental, Drug User, Crazy, Nutcase. There are more.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 07:42 AM
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reply to post by AtruthGuy
 




"Aliens Must Exist Cause God Does Not."


I've never heard anyone say anything even remotely close to that. The two aren't dependent on each other, and one's existence, or non-existence, has absolutely no bearing on the other.



Another argument is everyone wants to link the "Drake Equation."


The Drake Equation is a model based on what we know about the universe. It's purpose isn't to prove that there's life on other planets. It's to be used as a reference. It proves nothing, but it gives us a better grasp of the enormous possibilities.



Skeptics want proof we don't care for incredibly bias TV shows, Books, stories...Terribad youtube videos.
We want legit proof.


So do atheists.

Pot. Kettle. Kettle. Pot.



Show us a real alien


Show us God.

Prove it.

And just for the record, I do believe in God. But you need to drop the double standard.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 08:09 AM
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reply to post by m0r1arty
 


It is simple as, no matter how long of a post you make to disprove. Look mate I get that you don't like me. I don't like you much. I get that you don't believe the video in the thread I made. I was promoting the idea of true discussion and debate. Say what you want, but no where did I state that I thought that it was definite proof. I was just stating that the proof given, did not prove or disprove it.

My views on the reality of Extra Terrestrials change each day.

I think that you were so focused on the vid being fake that you mis-interpreted me.

You will not make me believe what you want. I will believe what I want. To try to state anything different is futile and wrong.

You also don't get to make the decisions, as to whether my words/actions are appropiate enough. Who do you think you are? The authority of right and wrong? Your view on my belief is exactly that.An opinion. I don't care what you believe or think or of your opinions.

I'm sorry if you don't like something I put up, don't read it. Whether it is a load of BS or not isn't up to you, its up to the reader. They will believe what they want.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by m0r1arty
 

By the way my thread was a different story, we had a kid, not known for hoaxes,post a vid on you tube, then I invited him here to discuss the thread/ vid. Alot debunked it because he was a film student. At the moment you guys are eating up a thread made by a man that says he was in the army and saw Aliens? No vid, no evidence he was even there and everyone believes him. I have come to the conclusion that the less proof you give the more people believe roun d here



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 08:47 AM
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reply to post by AtruthGuy
 


Well.. I for once, have seen a UFO my self.
My view was 3 very bright low flying lights (less than 30 meters up). Over a Peat-moss field. At night.

I have a friend, who saw a metallic UFO fly right above the tree tops.

And I have another friend and his wife, who actually saw a landed UFO. On a field.
It later took off, and disappeared very fast.

There are too many observations, in the Ancient times. When there was no man-made flying machines.
To ignore the facts, that aliens, or time-travelers. or dimension-hoppers, or multiverse-jumpers...
..is here, or have been here.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by MainLineThis
The other thing that I have noticed, is most "skeptics" tend to have a higher education level, a better grasp of reality...and to be honest....are probably in a much higher income bracket than your average "believer".


hm...I'm a bit "skeptical" about this "belief" of yours. Please do show me the proof. Show me! Show me!



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by AtruthGuy
Samething applies for the kids going through the "gothic (skulls,zombies, snakes, satan everywhere etc) kids."

To you real grown up and mature Atheists. I just feel its a bit Ironic. To yell there's no god but believe in little magical gray and reptillian creatures flying in spaceships, and they have these magical/fairy, and pyschic powers is a little bit ironic.

I'm not a big tough "Internet Religous guy."




edit on 17-3-2011 by AtruthGuy because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2011 by AtruthGuy because: (no reason given)


I've seen what I've seen, tbh the only thing that stopped me going *wibble* was to believe it was all down to hypnogogic dreams & sleep paralysis for YEARS. I'm not prone to hysterics or flights of fancy. I certainly don't think fairies live at the bottom of the garden, NOR will you see me throw salt around me frantically in a circle or wave an atheme about (though anyone who choses has that right). I am not religious in any shape nor form.

What I AM though, suprise, suprise, is what folks would regard as Gothic & no I'm not a kid.
How about you just stick to the topic at hand instead of throwing around steriotypes & veiled insults just to boost your own self esteem.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by AtruthGuy
 


Well said. I've said it a few times before, it's a lot harder to be a skeptic than a believer. Everything is proof to a believer, but the skeptics have to pick it apart and pull and tease out any real information.

I want to believe, I'm sure most of us do. But believe just because is faith, and science has no place for faith. I don't want to think they are here, I want to KNOW. I want testable proof, not conjecture and half pixellated youtube videos.

We don't want to admit we're not alone? Quite the opposite, the believers don't want to admit we might be alone. If I didn't want to admit they are out there, why on earth would I spend countless hours digging through forums and videos looking for evidence?

Some of the skeptics are closed minded, yes, but all of the believers are closed minded as well as they refuse to accept that some of these are hoaxes, and refuse to accept the possibility they are wrong.

i'm 100% willing to be wrong, are you?



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by AtruthGuy
 

Some of the skeptics are closed minded, yes, but all of the believers are closed minded as well as they refuse to accept that some of these are hoaxes, and refuse to accept the possibility they are wrong.

i'm 100% willing to be wrong, are you?


Yes, I am 100% willing to be wrong.
The problem is the evidence. There are too many that shows presence of UFO's/Aliens, to prove otherwise.


edit on 2011-3-18 by tomten because: fixed a typo



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:54 AM
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Too the person who said some skeptics are not educated, I guess I break that trend. I have a degree in aerospace engineering, I'm also fluent in 3 other languages French, chinese and spanish.

When believers start topics about cat people or lion people, stargates , reptillians how aliens made us, and other topics. I think the education argument can "flipped".



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:54 AM
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Too the person who said some skeptics are not educated, I guess I break that trend. I have a degree in aerospace engineering, I'm also fluent in 3 other languages French, chinese and spanish.

When believers start topics about cat people or lion people, stargates , reptillians how aliens made us, and other topics. I think the education argument can "flipped".



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:59 AM
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We just had a mostly respectful debate about the existence of "ET".

I will say, this is the only site I know of where this is even possible.

I know what I saw...I do not know what you have seen.

The only way we change minds is a peaceful exchange of evidence and ideas.

I am proud to be a small part of this site, besides "ATS" consistently beats the MSM.




posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:05 AM
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edit:

Don't want any involvement in this thread
edit on 18-3-2011 by dodgygeeza because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by AtruthGuy
 


reply to post by AtruthGuy
 



Originally posted by AtruthGuy
Too the person who said some skeptics are not educated, I guess I break that trend. I have a degree in aerospace engineering, I'm also fluent in 3 other languages French, chinese and spanish.


Sorry but I found a double-post with that assertion comical. I'm just messin' since you obviously have a sense of humor as evidenced by your sig.

edit on 18-3-2011 by kinda kurious because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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Yes I'm willing to be wrong, in fact if aliens did show up I would treat my believer friends to a few beers.


Till that day comes I will voice my opinion and save my money.
edit on 18-3-2011 by AtruthGuy because: (no reason given)



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