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Just My Opinion on Believers

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posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:15 PM
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Reply to post by BenIndaSun
 


Well of course yes when you put it in that manner. But I was referring to people who are skeptics of conspiracy stories on a conspiracy site. Makes no sense. Why would you come to a forum like this if you don't believe any of what you hear? Keep being a government sheep and move on with your life.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 




posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by ag893
Reply to post by BenIndaSun
 


Well of course yes when you put it in that manner. But I was referring to people who are skeptics of conspiracy stories on a conspiracy site. Makes no sense. Why would you come to a forum like this if you don't believe any of what you hear? Keep being a government sheep and move on with your life.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



Is it not equally possible that It could be argued your a conspiracy theory sheep? If you say no, then you truly are deluded, as I can accept and acknowledge the government lie to us or keep secrets.

I am here as a skeptic because I wanted to see if there was any good ufo case studies, also my uncle is a believer so we sometimes have this ufo debate, so I thought I would educate myself and also see if any of these case studies had any element of truth.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:25 PM
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I get the 'skeptic' label all the time yet I believe aliens exist. When I point out somebody's standard of evidence is garbage they get mad at me and label me a skeptic.

And then there are people who who think that people who disagree with them (who they think are skeptics) should not be on this site because this is a conspiracy theory site. Believe it or not, 1% of the material on here has some quality to them, 99% is garbage. I'm here for the 1%. If you are going to claim to have found the bestest most absolute amazing spectacular evidence and its garbage then expect people to tell you its garbage.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by vinunleaded
I get the 'skeptic' label all the time yet I believe aliens exist. When I point out somebody's standard of evidence is garbage they get mad at me and label me a skeptic.

And then there are people who who think that people who disagree with them (who they think are skeptics) should not be on this site because this is a conspiracy theory site. Believe it or not, 1% of the material on here has some quality to them, 99% is garbage. I'm here for the 1%. If you are going to claim to have found the bestest most absolute amazing spectacular evidence and its garbage then expect people to tell you its garbage.


Love the fact you highlighted this, theres so much crap out there its not even funny anymore! and all the quality cases get buried.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:29 PM
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When skeptics are provided with acceptable evidence, they say it's too blurry, too vague, or the best of all, too good to be true (so it got to be CGI right?)

Listen, I could do the same thread over skeptics. And I don't see believers claiming they must exist because their is no god...actually it's a first time for me.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by Gab1159
When skeptics are provided with acceptable evidence, they say it's too blurry, too vague, or the best of all, too good to be true (so it got to be CGI right?)

Listen, I could do the same thread over skeptics. And I don't see believers claiming they must exist because their is no god...actually it's a first time for me.


Give me an example of acceptable evidence?



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by CrazyMonkey
Ok I can understand where your coming from, but what if I told you that the information that you based your hypothesis on was based on loose information. Herein lies the problem, Rendlsham Forest and Malstrom seemed like very credible and serious cases. But like a typical UFO case new information arises which makes the original evidence questionable from a skeptic point of view. In the case of Rendlesham Forest one of the gentleman ( the name escapes me) said the craft downloaded binary code into his brain, ( why didnt he mention this all those years ago!?). In Regards to Malstrom, Robert Salas is accused of lying. Too tired to break down the details, but surely you can understand why approaching any situation as a skeptic is a healthy way to approach any case study. It's this intense scrutiny of information which ensures the information holds up, which increases the legitimacy of any case study.

It's not actually the big military events that makes it a possibility for me. I'm not sure which way to go in the Rendlesham Forest thing. A ranking officer says a thing, I tend to believe him until he's proven to be a liar. These men do not acquire rank by making things up. Never even heard of Malstrom. Appreciate the lead, now I have something new to review this evening.

But withstanding intense scrutiny is a good point. There are millions upon millions of believers in this old world. And the ET theory has withstood intense scrutiny. For every theory that's debunked, there's another that hasn't been. There are professional, credible folk on both sides of the argument capable of presenting good, intelligent cases to both ends.



Just being a believer means SOME people on this site, just accept everything they see as fact. Even worse, a tragedy like the one in Japan gets absorbed into their fantasy world, and suddenly the make threads talking about phantom non existant ufo aliens etc.. Being a believer in some cases means your model of the world is highly biased and thats not a good thing when investigating anything and in some cases it leads to deluded fantasys. A good skeptic won't judge a case based on old ones and treat every case subjectively. But some skeptics ( me included) will be overwhelmed and overloaded by the amount of sillyness and rubbish that is posted, you lose faith in any of these people having any form of rational thought or critical thinking.

Reality is what it is. Some of us view that reality different than others. Some of us think in such a skewed manner that their reality wouldn't even be recognizable to you or I. But, being a believer doesn't necessary categorize you into the 'fantasy' realm. There were a ton of physicists that didn't believe the Higgs Boson could be discovered. The believers are attempting it at Fermilab, CERN, the LEP, with plans to develop larger accelerators at great expense to discover they hypothetical particle. They may never succeed, but it's the hope, the belief that is making headway in the realm of theoretical physics. I wouldn't say that the 'believers' have a distorted view of reality. I know they have the science to back up their hypothesis, but in the end, the cases aren't so dissimilar. They see an equation with a question mark in it. They believe they have found the answer to the question and are dead set on proving it.

Believers have that question mark. Some non-believers have the same question mark. In the end, they are trying to prove it. Given the stigma that society places on them, it's not unrealistic to believe that their search for proof hasn't yet yielded results. If the same Stigma were placed on the folks at the LHC, then Hadron would have gone the same route as the SSC in Texas.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:51 PM
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To simplify it, some believers cry wolf and this forum is a great example of it. You have to call them out on it otherwise they will continue to post crazy claims with not a single shred of evidence.

Some believers go onto youtube and search UFO's and then become self professed experts. They post random videos pro claiming they are ufos, If that is not a misguided believer I don't know what is.

Its very disheartening, because it clearly shows a number of people are not capable of critical thinking or their excitment about the subject means they are living in a fantasy. They are like sponges, readily accepting new information which conforms to their biased mindset, even if the information has no source or is a fake. That is a very unhealthy thing to be doing.
edit on 17-3-2011 by CrazyMonkey because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2011 by CrazyMonkey because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2011 by CrazyMonkey because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by Arrowmancer
 



Very Nicely Said, but why don't the De-bunkers understand this ?

"Excellent. So you took the time to tell us what you didn't think about people that don't visit. Awesome. You can't show me a single shred of evidence they do not visit us, and I can show you quite a bit of evidence that has not been debunked that goes towards proof that they do. You have zero evidence. I have questionable evidence. Which gives me the advantage on the Truth Scale.."




I'm a believer, they are here, there, and everywhere.


Peace



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by Arrowmancer

Originally posted by CrazyMonkey
Ok I can understand where your coming from, but what if I told you that the information that you based your hypothesis on was based on loose information. Herein lies the problem, Rendlsham Forest and Malstrom seemed like very credible and serious cases. But like a typical UFO case new information arises which makes the original evidence questionable from a skeptic point of view. In the case of Rendlesham Forest one of the gentleman ( the name escapes me) said the craft downloaded binary code into his brain, ( why didnt he mention this all those years ago!?). In Regards to Malstrom, Robert Salas is accused of lying. Too tired to break down the details, but surely you can understand why approaching any situation as a skeptic is a healthy way to approach any case study. It's this intense scrutiny of information which ensures the information holds up, which increases the legitimacy of any case study.

It's not actually the big military events that makes it a possibility for me. I'm not sure which way to go in the Rendlesham Forest thing. A ranking officer says a thing, I tend to believe him until he's proven to be a liar. These men do not acquire rank by making things up. Never even heard of Malstrom. Appreciate the lead, now I have something new to review this evening.

But withstanding intense scrutiny is a good point. There are millions upon millions of believers in this old world. And the ET theory has withstood intense scrutiny. For every theory that's debunked, there's another that hasn't been. There are professional, credible folk on both sides of the argument capable of presenting good, intelligent cases to both ends.



Just being a believer means SOME people on this site, just accept everything they see as fact. Even worse, a tragedy like the one in Japan gets absorbed into their fantasy world, and suddenly the make threads talking about phantom non existant ufo aliens etc.. Being a believer in some cases means your model of the world is highly biased and thats not a good thing when investigating anything and in some cases it leads to deluded fantasys. A good skeptic won't judge a case based on old ones and treat every case subjectively. But some skeptics ( me included) will be overwhelmed and overloaded by the amount of sillyness and rubbish that is posted, you lose faith in any of these people having any form of rational thought or critical thinking.

Reality is what it is. Some of us view that reality different than others. Some of us think in such a skewed manner that their reality wouldn't even be recognizable to you or I. But, being a believer doesn't necessary categorize you into the 'fantasy' realm. There were a ton of physicists that didn't believe the Higgs Boson could be discovered. The believers are attempting it at Fermilab, CERN, the LEP, with plans to develop larger accelerators at great expense to discover they hypothetical particle. They may never succeed, but it's the hope, the belief that is making headway in the realm of theoretical physics. I wouldn't say that the 'believers' have a distorted view of reality. I know they have the science to back up their hypothesis, but in the end, the cases aren't so dissimilar. They see an equation with a question mark in it. They believe they have found the answer to the question and are dead set on proving it.

Believers have that question mark. Some non-believers have the same question mark. In the end, they are trying to prove it. Given the stigma that society places on them, it's not unrealistic to believe that their search for proof hasn't yet yielded results. If the same Stigma were placed on the folks at the LHC, then Hadron would have gone the same route as the SSC in Texas.


Take a look at Gary Mckinnon's case, its very unusual and isn't UFO centric, but it is part of his story. Perhaps he misinterpreted what he saw due to the low image quality,

What I find more interesting than UFOS is all the underhanded dealings the governments do across the world. Providing dictators with arms, as long as they remain compliant to the west etc..

Off topic, but look at the CIA operative in Pakistan who was going to face trial and possibly face death. The families of the deceased withdrew their charges. This would of been a political nightmare for America

There are rumblings America payed off the families so they could free their guy. America deny this of course.

Sorry for diverting but Gary McKinnons case ( as mentioned originally) is highly poltically charged with a hint of Ufology in there.


edit on 18-3-2011 by CrazyMonkey because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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I believe because I saw a UFO. It was a Triangle bigger than an NFL Football stadium. It changed my mind on the topic all together and made me want to research the topic of ET/UFOs a lot more.

So yes, seeing is believing. Until then, you are either on the fence or you are simply close minded about the subject and cry swamp gas or weather balloon at any anomaly in the sky.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by Arrowmancer
There are professional, credible folk on both sides of the argument capable of presenting good, intelligent cases to both ends.


Let's not push the boat out too far here ok Arrowmancer. Those looking for the Higgs Boson particles use reason and logic to base their aims upon (like all trained scientists or critical minds). If their conclusions aren't met there will be further studies to explain why. Money isn't forked out at that level on the whim of a belief. Debate behind the basic make-up of the universe isn't the same as Billy-Bob saying he say a Plebeian 4 Mach 5 intercepting a GLF ship over Atlanta to save us from Nibiru on 2012.

I'm fairly certain you've insulted everyone involved in the process of inventing the system you are using to communicate with us upon.

For the record I am an atheist. If someone else has a belief in the purpose of existence then I am happy for them. I don't have faith, they do. Those who would liken faith in a reason for being with extraterrestrial visitation mock both my non-faith and those with faith.

Scientists don't want UFO 'believers' who sneak in under the guise of the unknown, Religious groups don't want UFO 'believers' joining the congregation and spinning tales linking 'God' to aliens and I don't want UFO 'believers' telling me how my universe works without contributing anything to it but fantasy!

Believers are the cancer of reason and only hold back any proper study.

For those who would attack me for my thoughts: bleet away.

-m0r



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by AlienGrey
I believe because I saw a UFO. It was a Triangle bigger than an NFL Football stadium. It changed my mind on the topic all together and made me want to research the topic of ET/UFOs a lot more.

So yes, seeing is believing. Until then, you are either on the fence or you are simply close minded about the subject and cry swamp gas or weather balloon at any anomaly in the sky.


What ever you saw truly impressed you, but you made a leap from an unidentified object to Aliens. Because that is what you have seen in the media, your conditioned to make that relation. But how do you know it was ET related?



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by CrazyMonkey
 


Where in my post did I say that the craft I saw was piloted by "Aliens" or even related to "Aliens"? Read it again sir.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by AlienGrey
reply to post by CrazyMonkey
 


Where in my post did I say that the craft I saw was piloted by "Aliens" or even related to "Aliens"? Read it again sir.


Sorry I am tired, think I need sleep! I just saw the word ET and went into an automatic response mode lol

Bad Monkey
edit on 18-3-2011 by CrazyMonkey because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 12:57 AM
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Here's what I think the real problem here is. Most "skeptics" share the same desire that the "believers" do. What I think is that the skeptics desperately want this subject to be taken seriously, so progress can be made. And the only thing that stands in the way of real progress is the ridiculous things the "believers' have done over the decades to make the average Joe laugh whenever this subject comes up. Hardly the environment needed for fruitful study. The "skeptics" understand in order for this subject to progress, we need to shed the "laughability factor" that the ignorant among us have saddled us with.

The other thing that I have noticed, is most "skeptics" tend to have a higher education level, a better grasp of reality...and to be honest....are probably in a much higher income bracket than your average "believer". So there might be some "class warfare" going here, just on a different level. On one hand you have someone proclaiming something absurd, which a good education and firm grasp on reality would prevent...and on the other hand you have a very small group of people trying to reign in that very ignorance that makes us all look like idiots.

It is a no win situation. The believers think they are at war with the skeptics, while the skeptics think they are war with the believers. The skeptic will never win that war, as ignorance and profit will always rule in the favor of the ignorant believer. This very website (which is for profit) is a perfect example of what I just said.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by roughycannon
Brilliant! the biggest thing that bugs me is when you get a random person come into a thread about aliens and UFO's and says : "yes your right the reptilians ship's can only fly a few feet above the water but on land the anti-gravity effect is much greater so they can fly higher"...

I'm thinking, what are you talking about? how could you possibly know how high the ships fly? like they are a total expert, then they will moan at me when I quote real evidence, they call us trolls but I think its the other way round...
edit on 17-3-2011 by roughycannon because: spelling


Brilliant! the biggest thing that bugs me is when you get a random person come into a thread about aliens and UFO's and says : "..it's a Tesla ship, there's no UFO's, there all Tesla ships. But the Illuminati is holding back the technology of Tesla and Bill Lynde"...



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by AlienGrey
I believe because I saw a UFO. It was a Triangle bigger than an NFL Football stadium.


I think skeptics are just jealous because they haven't had this experience.

I saw a white orb, that looked as big as the moon. Then it came right at me. then shot away over the hills.

what an amazing experience. it really is humbling to know that there are things that exist...that someone wants to keep secret from you.

so ya, there is no question in my mind that UFO's exist, aliens exist, and there is a cover-up going on at the highest levels in government to keep a tin-foil hat on it.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 03:33 AM
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Sorry OP, you lost any vote when I read your avatar.

"Certainly The Most Logical Thinker on this site. No Doubt about that! I have yet to be proven wrong!"

We will be the decider of if you are a logical thinker, bloating one's ego is so ugly to see.

Its not very logical to a. use god and b. bundle believers in one bunch.

God is a state of faith and nothing else, there are no proofs that ANY god ever existed other than by the folklore passed around by people who believed. I would say there's more proof in hard cold scientific data of things we simply have no answer for no matter how small the number than we have of ANY god.

Gods, for me are simply something people use to avoid dealing with their own life 100%, very much in the same way people use fortune tellers etc etc.

As for believers, there's different types you know, some just believe there's life out there, some believe that life has been here before, some believe its still here and of course there are some who believe that 'they' are running things.

The one that most would have to accept by logic itself is that life exists elsewhere, if you fail to agree that then you have failed your own avatar, the chances that aliens have been here is a possibility as we have data that things have happened over the years that defy explanation and our technical levels at the time. Now I'll be careful here because some believe that our tech level is down to aliens so I'll treat it as purely a possibility but more on the facts that there's no real proof so its not the case.

So, lets say the tech we have is a little more advanced than what we normally see in the skies etc, with that in mind I have ask what the hell my wife and I saw in the sky and reported to mufon about. The craft we saw was not a fancy Close Encounters style craft, it was a matt black triangle with 4 lights, but what makes it odd was the size and no noise, this thing was enormous, think way bigger than an aircraft carrier making no noise.

Now I my wife and I saw that, I have no need for people to believe me, all I care is that I saw this in the sky and I've never seen something anywhere like it ever before or again, if that's ours then we are way more ahead than we admit.

I'm one of those believer that do believe things have been here but you simply can't tar every so called believer with that brush, it's daft to even try.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 03:39 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I am not an alien fanatic at all. I personally have not seen a shred of evidence that leads me to believe we have been visited, contacted, or have had a single bit of interaction with any species not evolved on Terra.

Having said that, to assume that life is limited to just one this one rock, given the sheer size of the Universe? In my opinion, very arrogant and small minded. Life found a way here. Life keeps finding ways here. Earth may well be a very rare and "magical" combination of circumstances that lend to the formation of life. I cannot believe, for a moment, that it is the only place where this confluence of circumstances has happened.

While I cannot prove that Earth is not unique, neither can you prove that it is. And given the scope of the Universe, my position is statistically more accurate.

~Heff

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



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