Death penalty and cruel and unusual punishment question!

As far as the biblical standpoint goes, there is a difference between killing an innocent and punishing someone for a crime via the death penalty:
en.wikipedia.org...

The imperative is against unlawful killing resulting in bloodguilt. The Hebrew Bible contains numerous prohibitions against unlawful killing, but also allows for justified killing in the context of warfare, capital punishment and self-defence.

The Torah and Hebrew Bible made clear distinctions between the shedding of innocent blood and killing as the due consequence of a crime. A number of sins were considered to be worthy of the death penalty including murder,[28] incest,[29] bearing false witness on a capital charge,[30] adultery,[31] idolatry,[32] etc.[33]

While I agree that the death penalty is an outmoded and stupid form of punishment and should be abolished if we as a nation are ever truly going to be able to tell others that we are somehow better than them. I think the idea behind killing prisoners is that they have done such an egregious offense that their death is the only option that people can think of to rectify the situation.

As for deadly force being authorized in the case of military instilations in this country, I will have to defer to the Castle Doctrine. As those military instilations often contain classified and rather expensive and sensitive equipment and information. I do agree that the government should have the right to defend that property against would be intruders just as someone should have the right to defend their own property against would be intruders.

I believe death is a better punishment than life in prison.

reply to post by kid_cudi


You can kill in self defense. And in a castle doctrine state you can kill if someone sets foot on your property, as if it were Area 51.

Originally posted by DAVID64
Someone must have the authority to punish crime. We the people elect sheriffs, judges, police forces are formed in cities, in short, we give them the authority. If left to the masses, it would be vigilantes stringing people up for what ever they decided was a crime. I believe in capital punishment for certain crimes. In some cases, let the punishment fit the crime. You do not want to know my idea of punishment for pedophiles.

And the government isn't "stringing people up" for whatever they decide is a crime?

Believe me, a cop or a judge have books full of excuses to put someone in jail or prison. But you come at them, they have a million and one other laws to protect them from real justice.

Take the case of Hope Steffey. When male jail deputies strip searched a woman who had been the victim of a DV assault, and then an assault by a deputy at the scene, against their own departmental policies, they got out of it by claiming that it was not a strip search at all. They claimed it was a suicide watch. They left her stark naked in the freezing cold jail cell for the rest of the night without medical treatment.

What was her charge? Disorderly conduct. A violation on the order of a speeding ticket.

Originally posted by kid_cudi


I believe in Capitol punishment for certain crimes also and if I were to tell you what punishment should be like for pedofiles you would want to punishment me for how painful and gruesome it would be. I HATE pedofiles.
I see what your saying and I understand it but what I don't get is how I could be shot for stepping 1 inch over an imaginary line at area 51. Because the perimeter isn't even close to the actual facility! So why would I be shot for crossing a line when I can't even see the facility?

It is up to them and what the determine their security needs are in deciding where to put the fence. We have no idea what is there or what those security needs might entail, and for what reasons. But the government is not the only group who will shoot on sight for trespassing. Many private companies, and even private citizens reserve that right under certain circumstances and according to certain regulations.

Regarding pedophiles. Not all pedophiles are sexual offenders, and not all child molesters are pedophiles.

I am against state-sanctioned capitol punishment for any reason. I am, however, not opposed to killing someone who is committing a serious crime that puts others lives at risk, or violate certain moral codes. For example, if you find someone in your house in the middle of the night, armed or not, I see it as your right to shoot them dead.

Originally posted by kid_cudi

I see where you are coming from and btw I'm catholic. So I'm gunna guess that you would do nothing if your kids were molested by a pedophile. Well that makes you a horrible parent!

Either the government has the right to kill, or they don't. There will always be a social boogeyman. It used to be the Irish, Blacks, Jews, Communists, mental retards, today it is terrorists and sex offenders who get the knee jerk reaction from the public.

And while I do agree that genuine article child molesters are revolting human beings, condoning the torture and murder of those loathsome human beings is worse than what they have done.

Originally posted by Segador
I believe death is a better punishment than life in prison.

I believe that rotting and dying in prison is a better punishment than death. Because all the time they spend rotting in prison is a living breathing moment that they have to look forward to rotting in hell after rotting on earth.

I'll tell you one thing about prison, especially among the old timers. Among murderers and such. There is a terrible thing you see happen. The change, where the murderer dies, as they become truly repentant. Then beyond that, as they become a man that it not at all the man who committed those crimes. Oh sure, technically they are the person. But really, are you the same person you were, 20, 30 years ago? Aren't there a lot of things you would do differently today, or do differently at this age than you might have done as a young person?

Of course, this change does not happen for everyone. And for some, it can happen in a matter of a few years.

But that is one thing I could never really get my mind around. In a murder case, the victim never had the chance to grow old, to learn new things, to become the person they might have become. So I suppose it is fitting that a murderer spend the rest of their life behind bars with no chance of parole. But on the other hand, as I said, sometimes that person who is rotting away in prison, really is not at all the same person who committed that murder. Talk about torture. To wake up one day, and the full gravity of your crime actually hits home. And there isnt a damn thing you can do about it now.

Something to think about anyway.

I know where your coming from. Except I'm only 22 years old and will graduate with my bachelors in criminal justice in about 4 months. I know the law and the crimes and I pretty know criminal law like the back of my hand. But if I could go back and do some things different in my life I would do it in a heartbeat. As for people in prison. Most of them were young, dumb and careless with their actions. And I know plenty of people that are in prison because I'll be working with law enforcement in about 6 months. But these people were put into prison for murder, rape, and other harsh crimes against human beings. Now the ones that have been in their for most of my life are very good people now. They are totally different people now. Better people. More respectful and more understanding of other people! And I wish some of them could have a second chance but they can't because of life without the possibility of parole.

I also know how I can shoot someone for entering my home or not leaving my home under certain circumstances. But what is so secret In our government? I'm beginning to think k don't wanna know because I have a feeling that if we findout what our governments secrets are were going to regret it.


And btw your posts were very helpful and u have a lot of great information. If it is possible may I quote you in some of the papers I will be writing for school?

reply to post by kid_cudi


Sure. Just give credit where credit is due. A little note in your bibliography is fine.

Now being, what, 22 you said. Think back to some of the dumb stuff you did at 14, even 16 years old. Maybe how you thought you were such a hotshot when you first got your driver's license, but now after a few years of driving and a few scares from close calls on the roadways, you have more respect for the roads. And count yourself lucky that no one got hurt in those close calls. Yet if someone had, you might very well have been sued, or even wound up in jail. Those are the stakes, that is the responsibility. But of course, at 16 all you're really thinking about is showing off and hanging out with your friends.

Now imagine that same affect amplified not only by time and the march of maturity, but by extreme circumstances. Whether those circumstances be socio-economic, or simply a random encounter with a traumatic event. Any one of us could find ourselves in a situation where we become a killer. And in that instant, you do not think about all of the crazy little details that will come up in a trial. If you have reason to kill, that will be the only thing on your mind. Well that and perhaps an inherent hesitation because of morality and a general sense of the legal ramifications. But you aren't going to sit there trying to figure out if you are truly justified in the eyes of the law, and it is impossible to predict if you would be justified in killing in the eyes of a jury. If you see a need to kill, a genuine need in your mind at that moment, you will kill. Even if you were wrong in the long run.

As far as the government goes. I'm sure you can dig through the boards here and find all sorts of conspiracies and speculation to drive yourself insane trying to figure out what the government is really up to. But maybe you would be interested in a bit of a history lesson first...

marselusvanwagner.blogspot.com...

And the video at this link I can't recommend enough...

msmreview.blogspot.com...

The first link is the "how" the second is the "why."

BTW, I went to school, for criminal justice as well. Then went on to study sociology. Good luck in your endeavors.

Thanks! I figured you had something to do with criminal justice and law from what you had been saying! I want be a DEA agent and after a few years of that move into the FBi or something higher up than state or local law enforcement. Id love to work for the Feds and get up with the top notch secret agencies.

However I do enjoy some psychology and no I don't want to drive my self insane with trying to findout the secrets, how and why of our government. Because if we were to findout it wouldn't be a secret anymore and then it wouldn't give people something to enjoy researching. Now I know a man who was in the military for 21 years and for 6 of those years he was a Green beret. And damn did I hear some stories About the government and what they are doing and stuff like that. But I swore to secrecy with him that I would never repeat or talk about anything he told me unless it had been declassified.

I think I'm about to get about an hour of sleep cuz it's 4.23am here. But I'm gunna watch the video and check out the links when I wake up.

Oh and I have a video you watch if you ever get the chance! I'll have to get it from my professor cuz I can't remember the name but seeing as what you talked about in your posts I think you'll enjoy it. It is about terrorism. It is a video about the rise of bin laden as a terrorist leader and how the United States dealt with it. It also talks about KSM.

Originally posted by kid_cudi

Originally posted by Segador
I believe death is a better punishment than life in prison.

I believe that rotting and dying in prison is a better punishment than death. Because all the time they spend rotting in prison is a living breathing moment that they have to look forward to rotting in hell after rotting on earth.

God forbid you ever make laws.

Originally posted by kid_cudi

Originally posted by PoorFool
reply to post by kid_cudi

 

"He who is without sin cast the first stone."

So much for being a christian......

I see where you are coming from and btw I'm catholic. So I'm gunna guess that you would do nothing if your kids were molested by a pedophile. Well that makes you a horrible parent!

Arguably... nay obviously, the first stone was cast by the one who committed the crime, correct? Therefore the courts and such are not casting the first stone, but rather are casting the second stone.

Do the religious texts say anything about casting the second stone? I do not know.
This makes me wonder.

Were we not given some latitude with regards to judging ourselves?
"Judge not lest ye be judged..."
"Do unto others..."
"Thou shalt not..."
"... an eye for an eye...."

If "insert diety name here" is omniscient, knows everything that has, is, or ever will happen, such is immutable. And said "diety" will admonish one of a sin performed in error or under erroneous circumstance(s); as one who has sinned can confess and be forgiven by the "church", so must one be forgiven for making mistake(s) and be commended for enforcing the rule of law. Admitting wrong, affecting remorse and expressing- admitting the mistake is the first step in redemption, no?

The VIII Amendment bans harsh punishment for misdermeanors and orders that the punishment carried out must fit the crime committied, ie, if you steal a 75c candy bar you cannot be put to death but if you butcher 4 people in cold blood it can cost you your life.

Originally posted by PoorFool

Originally posted by kid_cudi

Originally posted by Segador
I believe death is a better punishment than life in prison.

I believe that rotting and dying in prison is a better punishment than death. Because all the time they spend rotting in prison is a living breathing moment that they have to look forward to rotting in hell after rotting on earth.

God forbid you ever make laws.

I dont wanna make laws! BORING!

"... an eye for an eye...."


A tooth for a tooth!

Originally posted by kid_cudi

"... an eye for an eye...."


A tooth for a tooth!

Creative editing yet doesn't make a statement either way.

"An eye for an eye, makes the world blind."

Killing and murder are two different things.

People can kill in self defense and not be charged at all.

As for the bible, lets stick to fact and not myth.