Airline passengers incoming from Japan trigger alerts at O'Hare and Dallas-Ft Worth...can we admit

reply to post by 1curious1


Redneck? Care to elaborate on this one as well as your diatribe.

reply to post by freedish


Because that was WWII, and the top scientists of the day barely had a grasp on radiation, let alone laymen. We've learned a lot in the past 65 years. I mean, people believed those "Duck and Cover" videos, and I was rolling on the floor with laughter the first time I saw one of those things.

reply to post by 1curious1

Is there any way you can find out what type of radiation (neutron, gamma, ionizing, beta, alpha, etc.) those scanners are set to detect? That would help out immeasurably in my analysis of the situation.

Read on for my general response; you may not like it.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


I would think it is most likely particles that people picked up on their shoes and luggage when they left for the airport. I am thinking that this is from people that were closer to the nuclear powerplant and evacuated to Tokyo to get on a plane to the US. I don't think the contamination came from the ground in Tokyo. If that is the case then there is real big trouble over there.

reply to post by TheRedneck


I'll scan the form that a layman completes if it does go off and show you. Well, I scanned it, but I'm not sure how to add it here...
The first says (LFM-2) Reading: _____ KCPM
And the Handheld says (MICRO R) Reading:____ uR/HR(Right Front)


And so on for different locations (Left Rear, etc.)

Hold up...

U.S. Customs and Border patrol agents did detect unusually high radiation in the cargo hold of an American Airlines plane returning from Tokyo, but found that the source was a shipment of medical equipment, said the person, who requested anonymity because he hadn’t been authorized to speak publicly of the incident. No unusual radiation was found on passengers or the aircraft’s air intake system, he added.

Read: shipment of medical equipment caused this.

Chicago Tribune

Well that was close wasn't it?

Any idea where you begin sorting? Seems to add another hinky in an already complex situation.

This is completely possible, and in light of what I have been seeing overall, should have been expected. Here's what is happening in a nutshell:

The nuclear reactors, as well as possibly some of the stored spent fuel at Fukashima #1 are in meltdown. Period. The Japanese have been trying to slow this meltdown (it cannot be stopped), and had some early progress until radiation levels caused them to retreat.

There have been conflicting reports of low- to medium-level radiation, amounts that would seem insignificant compared with the reality of what can be seen in the Fukashima plants. There has also been the disagreement between what the Japanese government has been calling a danger zone and what other countries (initially the US) have been calling a danger zone. But this morning I read a report that said levels of 378 rem were detected airborne above the plants by one of the dousing helicopters.

That makes perfect sense.

The heat from the meltdowns is causing a local updraft over the plants, causing the radiation from them to rise instead of spread out. The levels are lower on the ground, but aloft they become extremely dangerous. Now, this is not high enough to enter the Jet Stream, nor do I expect it to reach that point; there is not enough heat to cause that kind of rise in the air. It does mean that there is a cloud of radiation hovering just over those plants and probably spreading quickly.

The atmosphere is a chaotic thing. It contains as many downdrafts as updrafts, and this is why the US declared such a wide evacuation zone: no one knows for sure where or when a downdraft is going to shoot radiation levels off the scale. It could happen within minutes anywhere inside that 50 mile radius, with no warning.

That means that every plane flying into or out of Tokyo (or any airport close to that evacuation zone) is actually flying through the edge of that cloud of radiation. Ionizing radiation has a 'sticky' quality to it; it will ionize surrounding atoms and then stick to them, sort of like a permanent magnet operates, but with electrostatic charges instead of magnetic.

So the planes and anything exposed to the atmosphere (luggage compartments) will pick up some radiation.

So far, though, the readings of 2 mR/h are not overly dangerous, as long as one is not exposed for a long period of time. So there is really no reason to panic, but there is cause for concern as this situation intensifies (and it will intensify) over the next days.

But yes, there is radiation coming in on planes, in small amounts.

TheRedneck

reply to post by 1curious1

That is sufficient. The specs for that type detector are here.

It detects high-energy gamma radiation, such as that emitted by cesium, cobalt, or radon.

Thanks!

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


We see this material approximately two times a week and I've yet to determine if our city even has flights from Tokyo (I doubt it!). But your data was helpful because this material does not come within 10' of our detectors... I noticed sensitivity is set to record certain numbers at 10'.

And while I'm at it, here's a great big for all that you have brought to all the threads in this disaster. Your knowledge certainly shows! Thank you for sharing it with us!!!

If there is any dust or particles coming in, it would contain plutonium. The plutonium is most likely going to fall out in the ocean, its heavy, isn't it? But it could be flown in on the soles of passengers shoes, which was what I read somewhere, they were taking their shoes.

reply to post by DancedWithWolves


This is from another Chicago paper....

chicago.cbslocal.com...

and in the other article stating it was only medical equipment it was incorrect as the following states

Federal officials found traces of radiation on a United Airlines jet that arrived at Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport from Tokyo Wednesday but determined that the plane’s cargo and passengers were safe.

Mayor Richard Daley acknowledged Thursday that passengers on a flight from Tokyo had set off radiation detectors at O’Hare, but he offered no details and said federal officials will be handling the situation.

There were also 2 planes. Sounds like they are being overly cautious and in one case it was medical material but how did the people on the plane set off detectors? Does that mean every time you fly and that medical equipment is in the hold you are getting some rads? Something here does not make sense nor add up.

and it seems DHS is on it too...

hosted.ap.org...

reply to post by Unity_99

Actually, there is no such guarantee that it would contain plutonium, or alpha radiation for that matter. It could contain a couple dozen different isotopes, or it could only be particles.

They have confirmed large amounts of cesium isotopes, and enough cesium could give off that much radiation. 2 mR/h is not a whole lot.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by boncho
No, it shows that people that are coming from Japan are radioactive.

thats what he said wasnt it?

Originally posted by gnosticquasar
reply to post by freedish

 

Because that was WWII, and the top scientists of the day barely had a grasp on radiation, let alone laymen. We've learned a lot in the past 65 years. I mean, people believed those "Duck and Cover" videos, and I was rolling on the floor with laughter the first time I saw one of those things.

right...but were there any reported radiation incidents in the US after that? i don't remember hearing any.

Originally posted by Curio

Originally posted by freedish
how come no one was freaking out when the US dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan...wouldn't the radiation have followed the same jet stream to the US?

That probably had a hundred times more radiation than this incident...Yet I never heard about any concerns over that.

so why is everyone over reacting???

.... or am I just taking this too lightly?

Completely different kinds of radiation events. Why do you think people were living back in Hiroshima and Nagasaki (sp?) pretty soon after they were destroyed - and can still live there now? Now ask yourself why nobody is living at Chernobyl or even close to it......and probably won't for quite some time.

then why isn't everyone still concerned about chernobyl? wouldn't that radiation also make it's way to the united states eventually?

reply to post by freedish

Originally posted by freedish
how come no one was freaking out when the US dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan...wouldn't the radiation have followed the same jet stream to the US?

That probably had a hundred times more radiation than this incident...Yet I never heard about any concerns over that.

so why is everyone over reacting???

.... or am I just taking this too lightly?

probable because there was no internet so there was no sites where people could over react for them is my guess