If this happened in the US, it would probably be a lot different

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by unityemissions

 

Intelligence certainly within normal ranges and perhaps throughout the bell curve has absolutely no relationship with dignity, respect for others and self discipline. The 9 point difference still places both populations in the median of intelligence.

Generally, folks below the normal intelligence levels are docile in any event, not aggressive

Actually, something like 90 iq for a civilized country. For africa you might have a value of 85? Just a 5-10 point margin is the difference between an uncivlized country and a civilized country.

9 points is a lot. IQ can change with education/wealth and better nutrition and of course less pollution. It takes a long time to build up a country, though. So africa will require time to grow.

The IQ difference might hint at a cultural difference more than a genetic difference.

I think it has more to do with genetics and the culture than it has to do with morality. I also think americans have some advantages that the japanese don't. So you can't really judge em.

Plus, we won WWII.

reply to post by jonnywhite


The IQ level does not lead to violence, period. There are many factors that drive the state of countries around the world that have nothing to do with IQ, culture being one of them. Desired form of governance being another. The fact that a country is largely tribal does not imply they are less civilized. They might not conform to your notions of "civilized", but that is an ethnocentric world view

I strongly doubt that the native cultures, notably the Pacific Islanders would get violent in the event of a disaster, despite the fact that they are in your terms "uncivilized".

The simple fact is that because we have allowed dysfunctional behavior to exist in the US absent any ramifications, it has become a known and natural response - be it celebration or outrage. If you rioted in Japan and were caught, you would go to prison, end of story. Not jail for a couple of days, prison. When you got out, nobody would associate with you. You would not be welcome in any community, would never get a job, you would forever be on the outside of society. In the US, the entire culture bends over backwards in an effort to justify the behavior of the lawless - nothing is their fault, it is the fault of some external, societal factors, never the responsibility of the person setting the car on fire. Its institutional something or other creating an unmanagable level of frustration or some other nonsense.

It has nothing to do with IQ

reply to post by dolphinfan


I think you're basing this off your feelings, but certainly it's not the result of research and common sense.

Be honest with yourself and everyone else here on ats!

We have a very large and diverse nation. I think any responses you see to a major disaster will vary according to the region and local culture in which it occurred and reflect the unique characteristics of the community or communities involved. People keep pointing to Katrina as a case where people failed to come together in a crisis and showed a poor me first response. I would like instead to remind everyone of the unity and self sacrifice shown in New York and DC in the aftermath of 9-11. There were many tales of courage and selflessness during that time.

I was part of a large hurricane evacuation in South Carolina a few years back. Floyd. One of the natives down there stopped me and my husband on our way out as we were filling up on gasoline to express sadness that our vacation had to be cut short and to wish us a safe trip home. She herself was on her way inland and was leaving her HOME behind, yet took time to express kindness to us mere vacationers. Edit to add, it was a huge gridlock on the way out but punctuated by a lot of courtesy and unusually considerate driving.

However I can't discount the problem our society has too many predators in it. In a time of chaos children and women and elderly are going to be particularly vulnerable to those sorts of people. I think good decent people probably outnumber the evil ones, but the problem is, as you can tell by reading our news and seeing the supposed pillars of the communities that they catch in sting operations, there are some really adept wolves in sheeps clothing among us. And we also have thug subcultures of all races and ethnicities to contend with that you just dont see much of in Japan.

So overall, no it won't likely go as well as in Japan, but it won't necessarily be the abject cluster muck we saw in Katrina, either.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by paearmor

 

We have alot to learn from these people.

Yes, we very much do have a lot to learn from the people of Japan. I have a family member in Tokyo, and from what I hear, if you have to be in a disaster, that is the place to be.

I was just saying to my husband the other day, that if this were to take place in the USA, we would have to fight just to protect our loved ones.

I am feeling horrendously sad and then angry at the idiocy when I hear people say that Japan is getting "pay back". I want to say for what? For having done the same thing we are doing right at this moment? Going to war for oil? Japan sought access to natural resources such as oil and rubber during WWII and the attack on Pearl Harbor. So, when do we get our pay back? OH, I forgot we are "superior" to every other nation so of course we won't get "pay back".

For overfishing the ocean, fishing for whales and dolphins? Oh, wait again, American's are overfishing the oceans, and destroyed the Gulf with an oil "spill"..... uhm.... gusher. So when do we get our payback? But again, we are superior.



We are all one people, one race, the human race. Until the day we all wake up and realize that, we will never have peace.

Harm None
Peace

reply to post by unityemissions


I am merely making the case that there is absolutely no quantitative data to support that intelligence levels lead to violence in times of disaster and to suggest otherwise, again creates a blameless explanation for anti-social behavior. I simply don't buy the "well these folks are not very bright and thats why they riot and loot" bs. They are violent and loot because society has demonstrated time and time again that it is an acceptable response.

I would anticipate more anti-social behavior on the Berkeley or Columbia campus than I would in a rural farming community. Somehow I just don't see the Amish looting and I don't think you are suggesting that they are more intelligent than the folks who are going to an Ivy League school, or are you?

It did happen in the US. It's called a government cover up, or, 911.

The only difference is the date.

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by unityemissions

 

I am merely making the case that there is absolutely no quantitative data to support that intelligence levels lead to violence in times of disaster and to suggest otherwise, again creates a blameless explanation for anti-social behavior. I simply don't buy the "well these folks are not very bright and thats why they riot and loot" bs. They are violent and loot because society has demonstrated time and time again that it is an acceptable response.

Well, you're throwing more than one thing into the mix. First things first, there IS a correlation between IQ and antisocial behavior, and criminal activity. There also IS a HIGH correlation between IQ and self-discipline. As for how people would act in a disaster, it would be all over the place, but it seems quite logical to assume that the higher the IQ, on average, the more civil and calm the population would be.

As for rioting and looting... that depends on many factors. IQ would be one of them. Sometimes it seems this would be acceptable behavior... other times, not so much... it depends. I don't accept the line of reasoning you mention, either. Sometimes it seems most reasonable to drastically react in a seemingly antisocial way on one level, yet perhaps in a pro-social way on another level.

I would anticipate more anti-social behavior on the Berkeley or Columbia campus than I would in a rural farming community. Somehow I just don't see the Amish looting and I don't think you are suggesting that they are more intelligent than the folks who are going to an Ivy League school, or are you?

I don't think you get it. IQ is ONE factor. It's more like a mix of other factors being expressed, than anything else, imo. Kinda like a syndrome. It infers many things, but doesn't tell the whole story in and of itself.

reply to post by unityemissions


You are confusing individual patterns of behavior and mob behavior. Now, I will grant you that an individual who has marginal intelligence is likely to have less self control. That individual, however does not cause riots and looting. He might join in the action, but he is not the leader. I would suggest that the individuals who are actually the leaders of riots and looting are well above average intelligence - they are astute observers of human behavior and tend to have above average abilities in manipulating others.

Now perhaps you envision a rioting/looting mob as a group of dim-witted folks - I don't buy it. Look at the WTO and G20 riots. The vast majority of those folks are college educated. The WTO riot that happened in Seattle several years ago was organized by a rich, trust fund guy who went to Dartmouth.

reply to post by dolphinfan


You can't compare the two. They are born out of two entirely different things. When a society, or sect of society feels oppressed, they may riot. What's happening in Japan is entirely different. It was a natural occurrence, and the people don't have an us and them mentality, there's an understanding that the suffering is universal, and a sense of community.

I just don't think your examples are comparable in the slightest, sorry.

reply to post by unityemissions


But what you are suggesting that given an identical situation, naturally occuring that is, that the results on the ground in the US would be different because of intelligence levels?

We'll have to agree to disagree because I simply don't buy it

reply to post by paearmor


Another possiblity regarding Katrina in comparison to Japan is there was little to no help in the bad areas of NO with Katrina, aide came very late and slow and when people get desperate there going to do what they have to so they came feed their families. Food for thought.