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Questions the Skeptics, Media and Government(s) Can’t Answer.

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posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:04 PM
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The amount of life to be lost due to radiation won't compare to that of the Tsunami. The Tsunami took so much life there really isn't enough people in the area of the nuclear plant's that people would be harmed because even with "fallout" or any term you want to use, the wind's still blow east. The nuclear plant's are on the ocean front due east. The ocean will suffer more then any human in terms of radiation... THIS TIME AROUND.

Oh and not to hijack your thread, not that I can. Check out my topic for Japan's population density map.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 17-3-2011 by ResearchMan because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by loveguy

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by loveguy
 


You didn't steal that tiarra did you?

Inquiring minds want to know!



My wife took this picture because she wouldn't bring me coffee until I submitted a birthday pose. The tiara is my wife's.


Ah that's so sweet, she let you wear her Tiara on your Birthday?

How much did that cost you?



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by Russorevresbo
 



i cant see this video, i hate when ppl want to make something viral and remove their own video, i have seen this before, but i dunno about this video, can u post another source? edit: i meant i can't see oh


Can you believe that all evidence of this video is gone! It was about a skipper telling the public that a voluntary evacuation was underway in Japan for Americans. First women and children and then the men and so on until the skipper was the last one. Then he would leave also. He emphasized not panicking. I wonder what would have made them remove the video?



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by SirMike
 


It sounds like you are not an expert on nuclear physics or nuclear reactors. Neither am I, but I have considerable experience in plant maintenance, so I know a few things.

An MCC's breaker melts down when exposed to explosions, fires, and high temperature for continuous periods, not to mention most of the plants wiring from the explosion and fires.

I don't know, maybe people can go into the plant, because to use the electrical grid in the plant, someone is going to have to trip all the breakers. Breakers can fuse closed under the right conditions. I think that house wiring would be very suspect.

How much power is produced by the portable generator I guess depends on your definition of portable. 37.5KVA isn't all that much power. Quite a few companies sell generators with more capabilities. The problem is that the plants pumps probably run on 12kv, and I don't think any portable generators produce 12kv. I would think that they would bring in all portable equipment.

The real question is if there is a nuclear meltdown, can it be stopped?

Here is an article I found, but it doesn't give a lot of details.

www.euronews.net...

I didn't find any information as to exactly what a nuclear meltdown means, but Chernobyl is still creating a great deal of radiation, and if memory serves me right, they need to build another tomb around the first tomb, because it is so deteriorated from the radiation.

Once meltdown occurs, my understanding is that it can not be stopped.

Here is a good article on the situation in Japan.

bravenewclimate.com...



Depends how you define "expert" ... I have worked in the power and petrochemical industry for over a decade aisde from two USNR deployments. I worked on a 2-1/2 year project at a nuclear plant as an engineering specialist on a steam generator (among other things) replacement. So no ... I am not a "nuclear engineer" or a "nuclear physicist" ... but yeah I do know more than most. A lot more.

Sorry, should have said KV, not KVA, got transformers on my mind. Not that I even know what voltage the plant's main bus operates at, but considering the size of a circ water pump at a reactor (perhaps +1000hp), we aint talking 460VAC or even 4.7KV.

I dobt there is physical damage to the MCC's from the hydrogen explosions, those all took place at the top of the reactor and the MCC room(s) is most likely at grade as well as the pumps. After all, you arent going to locate a 1000hp pump at elevation unless you have to. And even if they are damaged, how much work is it to swap out buckets? Cabling, at US nukes at any rate, is all NFPA 803 or equivalent. I dont see how the Japanese would have a dramticly different standard for power and instrument cabling, so while there might be some fire damage, I cant see how a fire up top the reactor would have a significant effect on an 803 rated cable.

The only lingering radiation of any significance from Chernobyl is the CS-137, not from anything still at the plant.

A meltdown, broadly speaking, takes place in several steps: fuel is exposed to air/steam, fuel rods heats, fuel rods swell, fuel rod begins to break apart, fuel rod fragments fall to bottom of reactor, fuel rod fragments get even hotter, fuel rod fragments melt through bottom of reactor, fuel rod fragments now sit on concrete pad under reactor. So far whats happened at Fukushima is fuel rod swelling and perhaps some breaking but because the rods are at least partially submreged, they havent IMO, began to break apart.

The problem with using a term like "meltdown" is that there is no universally agreed upon defintion of what it means and as such one mans meltdown is not always another mans understanding of a meltdown.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by ResearchMan
The amount of life to be lost due to radiation won't compare to that of the Tsunami. The Tsunami took so much life there really isn't enough people in the area of the nuclear plant's that people would be harmed because even with "fallout" or any term you want to use, the wind's still blow east. The nuclear plant's are on the ocean front.

Oh and not to hijack your thread, not that I can. Check out my topic for Japan's population density map.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 17-3-2011 by ResearchMan because: (no reason given)


Lets hope this is the case, but the truth is at the very least a couple of the original workers in the plant during the initial explosions are missing, so chances are there are at least some deaths at the plant already.

Please feel free to post any other threads, links or theories you have.

Its a discussion thread, one aimed around asking questions and finding answers.

Thanks.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by Russorevresbo
 



i cant see this video, i hate when ppl want to make something viral and remove their own video, i have seen this before, but i dunno about this video, can u post another source? edit: i meant i can't see oh


Can you believe that all evidence of this video is gone! It was about a skipper telling the public that a voluntary evacuation was underway in Japan for Americans. First women and children and then the men and so on until the skipper was the last one. Then he would leave also. He emphasized not panicking. I wonder what would have made them remove the video?


Though they are downplaying it a number of the stories making the rounds of the Mainstream News Sites clearly state that the Japanese Government does not want to 'panick' the people that have already been through so much.

Getting them to sit still and die can be such a chore!



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:09 PM
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Just found it again! Hurry up and watch before its gone!



www.youtube.com...

The old one was removed almost immediately!
edit on 17-3-2011 by jackflap because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by jackflap
 


Great job Jackflap.

These YouTube videos have been dropping like flies it seems.

You really do have to watch these things right away.

Excellent effort!




posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by xuenchen
 


I don't think the US wants it's ships or planes within 50 miles of that plant if there is any way to avoid it.

The truth is that the radiation levels are high enough to concern military commanders to the point that they don't want to expend US Equipment and Personnel if they can avoid it, and they sure are avoiding it.

Thanks my friend.


Its called ALARA and the USN takes it very serously.

Not to whip on you, or anything, but my repsonse (page 5 I think, it was long) to the very first post shows it to be a mix of ignorance, confusion, and fear.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Ah that's so sweet, she let you wear her Tiara on your Birthday?

How much did that cost you?


That has yet to be determined!!!



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:16 PM
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posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:16 PM
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where if they give us the talking points they want us to argue we will limit the argument more or less around them.



the Government and Media are of the opinion that we can be taught to argue anything simply by giving us carefully constructed versions to argue over, while all the while they operate nearly unaccountable in the vacuum of the confusion that they create.


You said a mouthful here PT. The modern dialectic is alive and well it seems. Even at the cost of countless lives.
S&F&

edit on 17-3-2011 by Klassified because: ETA

edit on 17-3-2011 by Klassified because: Added a word.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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lets make it a rule that if you're a reporter and you're broadcasting this event as "meh, there's really no significant dangerous radiation/risk to humans", you must be on location in the parking lot with the fire trucks. otherwise, i think we'd all just as soon hear the truth.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by Klassified
 


It really is like they imagine we are wind up dolls, where they just need to give us a couple different versions to argue about, and we will do nothing but as we try to mimick what they give us and justify it and legitimize it for them.

It's a very deminishing process to be sure.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by Urantia1111
lets make it a rule that if you're a reporter and you're broadcasting this event as "meh, there's really no significant dangerous radiation/risk to humans", you must be on location in the parking lot with the fire trucks. otherwise, i think we'd all just as soon hear the truth.


That sure would quiet the airwaves wouldn't it?

These reportes certainly rarely end up having to own what they are saying.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by Amaterasu

In a system that has no place for cheating to happen...then there cannot be "cheaters." As for sociopaths and psychopaths, I contend they are a product of the twisting and "love-killing" nature of a money/power/energy (three manifestations of the same thing) scarcity system.


THAT is where you are wrong.

A)You make an assumption that your system has no place for cheating. And that isnt so. It could always be wrangled back to the "selfish" system we have now.


I will not say that if we all put the system I suggest into place that we will not decide to change it, but I suspect it is unlikely. Without a need for money, and with autonomous power over self but no others, trying to introduce controls would be extremely difficult. (And in fact, my system IS a selfish one - and an altruistic one simultaneously)


B)
Your assumption that sociopaths and psychopaths are produced soley as a result of our "love killing" system. You are contending that, you say, but on the basis of what? How have you ruled our genetics, epigenetics, and infectious agents? And lets be honest. You havent.


No... I never said SOLELY. A fair number of them are that way because of an emotionally impoverished childhood, and sure there would be still those who are "hopeless" - but being a sociopath in abundance is irrelevant; One could become a comfortable hermit. Only the statistically nonexistent psychopath would be an issue. As now. And as now, (s)he would be dealt with.


Environment: Studies conducted on sociopaths have revealed that environmental factors can also lead them to develop antisocial behavior. Children have a tendency to imitate their parents and if one of them has this problem, it can surely affect the child too. It is also been said that a child who is deprived of parental love during the initial years of life also has chances of developing this behavior. Even having peers with violent behavior can lead to development of sociopathic tendencies in children.

Link: www.buzzle.com...




Originally posted by Amaterasu
And I am curious, if it is the idea that in abundance - with everyone equally "rich" and those who care willing to raise our children - that such twisting will be minimal...how would I go about researching this? Never before have we had such a society.


Has there never been such a society? Are you sure? Were some of the hunter gatherer societies not at least close to this model? Do you understand genetics? That variation is part of the way a species is built?


I am sure. None have leisure for ALL, with robots as "slaves." None promoted the betterment ethic. None focused on following One's bliss. None had the Interweb for self-governance. None had free energy. None had no need to exchange goods for goods (or money or whatever). And what's genetics got to do with whether there has been a system as I describe? Yes, I understand genetics quite well, thank you.


And game theorists and other researchers in altruism HAVE done models, including computer simulations of evolution that have shown, pretty definitively, that pure altruism is not feasible. Invariably, a "cheater" arises by chance, and if the altruists do not select against "cheating' the survival benefits of cheating are so great they overwhelm the altruists. Much like we see in progress now.


My system requires mostly self interest (though it's awesome to know everyone else is benefiting, too). No altruism required. So the above is irrelevant.



Originally posted by Amaterasu
In abundance why would anyone be attacking?


In abundance someone would be attacking because there is natural variation in the species. Some people are born "different" and sometimes that different works for us, and sometimes it doesnt. Your whole theory rests on an ASSUMPTION you are making that sociopathy and psychopathy are learned, not organic. And you have nothing to justify this belief. At all.


[sigh] It is you who are making assumptions. Again, I never said all such deviancy was learned. It really is irrelevant, because even if we had the SAME LEVEL as now, all of us would be, by leaps and bounds better off, so, no. My "whole theory" has nothing to do with whether we have the same number of social deviants. I was merely commenting that we can EXPECT a lower level. You're really good at putting words into my mouth.


We KNOW variation occurs because of the way genes work. We KNOW that behavior is substantially genetically driven, (because of twin studies where the twins have been reared apart.) So we KNOW that all human beings are not going to behave equally cooperatively.


Given that, except for the elite (who will merely lose power over others), everyone of us will have a personal stake, something to gain (a choice to live as the elite presently do, as one thing amongst many), I think it's fair to guess that most of us would be on board once we understood this.



Why cannot Humanity be the "body?" You can call me closed minded, but I suspect you're incorrect. I am trying to grasp your points here. A few examples would go a long way.


Ok, Humanity CAN be the body. But think of cancer. In the body, sometimes the body needs to defend the body against the body. A cancer cell, because of some physical factor, ( DNA damage, infection with a virus) is one of your own cells that has been turned traitor to the body. It has become selfish. It wants to live forever, and it wants to divert resources the whole body needs only for its own use. It also wants to spread all over and displace other things that the whole needs in order to function. In its greed and madness, these cells will kill the body as well as itself, trying to benefit itself. It selfish, but it is a mad selfishness that is doomed.


Let's not take the analogy overboard here. As long as the social "cancer" is following the Laws, no problem. If the Laws are broken...we'll handle it pretty much as we do now. Meanwhile, our individual scope of choices for spending our time will widen vastly for everyone on the planet.


(Do you notice a parallel with how humanity is acting in the "body" of the Earth? Diverting resources from other species for our own use, crowding them out, trying to extend our lives indefinitely and overpopulating? Just so. As above so below, you can see this truth reflected on all levels)


I do not see overpopulation. I see food and resources distributed by profit. Hundreds of thousands of pounds of food are thrown out each month at supermarkets while in poor places people starve. I see corporate interests raping the planet for profit. And I see no issue with immortality if we can achieve it - it's one big universe out there, after all. And Humans WILL go to the stars if we open the free energy to all and move into abundance.


edit on 3/17/2011 by Amaterasu because: typo/brain fart



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:39 PM
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I guess preparation is really the key here. The problem is these governments running grab an go with no plan b. Nuclear energy is dead as far as I'm concerned. Greed can die along with it. Thanks proto for the rational approach. My advice to the members of ATS is get some NAC, it protects cells from all radio isotopes and is far more useful



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by meathed
 


It might take the Budwiser girls being along for the ride in a supporting role too.

All he has to do is say that Ana Nicole Smith was very against nuclear energy and we all owe it to her to solve this problem right away.


Charlie Sheen, BEERS and GIRLS. We maybe onto something.
It'll be like naked news on drugs, but with actual reporting and investigations, reporting the TRUTH, i think people might actually watch, and believe then.
ps, Dont joke about Ana, there are probably a few that are reading this that still dont know that shes dead.

edit on 17-3-2011 by meathed because: they made me change it, You know who, we were just talking about them. be careful



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:44 PM
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those battling the Fukushima meltdowns are to be commended,
but what i'd really like to know is exactly where are the plant owners, and those
who ordered it to be built in the first place??

do you think the owners are on the front line helping to keep the reactors from melting down??
HELL NO!

most certainly they are fleeing as fast as their feet can take them.
put THEIR lives on the line to help avert catastrophe??
HELL NO!

they've got 50 or 130 (or whatever) suckers battling it out FOR them.
sacrifing their lives so some rich SOB's can go on and build the next generation
of nuclear power plants.

again, the media has focused on the "heroic" actions of a few,
so that NO ONE will bother asking the tough questions... like where the HELL are the plant owners?
and why are they EXPECTING others to die for their mistakes???????????????????????



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


You know what? You are not making an argument. You are offering opinion and saying "because I say so. "

You asked for an analogy I gave you one. Now its too much of an analogy for you.

Lets agree to disagree, because I dont want invest the time or energy building good argument for opinion in return.


Originally posted by Amaterasu

In a system that has no place for cheating to happen...then there cannot be "cheaters." As for sociopaths and psychopaths, I contend they are a product of the twisting and "love-killing" nature of a money/power/energy (three manifestations of the same thing) scarcity system. In abundance, such twisting will be a very rare case indeed.

I will not claim that never will a naturally twisted Human Being exist in abundance...just that statistically speaking there will be none.



edit on 17-3-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)



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