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Questions the Skeptics, Media and Government(s) Can’t Answer.

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posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
#1: How can they say there is no serious breach of containment at the plants?

#2: They plan to restore power to the cooling systems by running outside lines to the main plant junctions?

#3: They should be called heroes as they may ultimately have to sacrifice their lives?

#4: If no significant radiation has been released why is even the New York Times now reporting Radio Active Clouds that pose minimal health hazards will reach the California Coast by tomorrow?

#5: Clearly these plants are beyond repair, why aren’t they actively entombing them?

(opening rant)
For some reason, I'm back here at ATS again. I don't really know why I bother, because it really seems that people here have made up their minds about what's happening. Hell, one person seemed to be calling me a government shill yesterday. I'm just a guy in northern Japan. I'm going from the Japanese news - which is very different from the american news, in that there is no place for the truth to hide. If the media lies here, or the government lies, or TEPCO lies, it will be found out very quickly. There's nothing to gain - at all - by misleading the public about radiation, for example, because people can go online and check one of dozens of online geiger counters and check for themselves.

That said, here's my response to those questions, based on what the Japanese media has been reporting, and based on information received from friends on base at Yokosuka, and friends up here in the JSDF.

1) They aren't. There has quite obviously been a serious loss of containment. This loss of containment has reulted in the evacuation of thousands in a raius of 20km around the plant, and radiation reports being included in the weather as i saw for the first time on last night's news. Radiation levels at the gate of the plant, as well as radiation levels throughout the country are routinely reported on by TEPCO and the government, and verified by publicly accessible independent sources.

2) Yes. This has been ongoing for several days, although the western press seems to be only picking up on it recently. You need to understand that this area has suffered both a tsunami and a massive earthquake. Most of the surrounding area has no power. Lines are down, roads and bridges are out. Add to that the fact that the quake and tsunmai damaged plant infrastructure, and add to that the fact that they've had a few hydrogen explosions, and you'll start to see why this is taking a bit of time. Crews in the evacuation zone are on rotation because of the health risks, which is further complicating things.

3) The "Fukushima 50" is something I've only really heard in the US media. That's not to take away from the job they're doing at all, and frankly I think they are heroes, but they aren't getting the same treatment here. There are actually 180 people working on site.( source, and a lot of other useful information, here. ). They have accepted a maximum of 250 miliSV. Once that level is reached, they will be removed from the plant, and they won't be able to work in a nuclear facility again. You can bet that they will be taken care of.

4) I think you've answered your own question. A small amount of radiation has been released, and that radiation - in much smaller concentrations - is reaching California. The amount is roughly comparable to what you received when China was conducting nuclear testing, and several orders of magnitude lower than what you received when nuclear testing was being carried out in the USA. Saw in the news yesterday that a man from Fukushima had been pulled aside at an airport in South Korea because his hat and coat read 1 microSv. If that amount is significant to you, I'd suggest that you never travel - because you'll be exposed to 200 times that just by flying.

5) Even at Chernobyl they weren't entombing the reactor at this point. The reactors will eventually be dismantled, that much seems almost a certainty at this point. But entombing them in concrete at this point would be supremely irresponsible, and ultimately solve nothing. We're a lot closer to the end of this crisis than the beginning, by all accounts.

Hope that helps a bit. I'll reply as I can.




posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by vox2442
 


I appreciate you sharing what you feel, but the corporate culture of saving face in Japan is well known and no we aren't any where near to solving this problem.

In fact early efforts to donwplay it and to mitigate it and make excuses for it, have in fact just led many people to realize that the experts and the reporters are not credible.

Even your own statement is full of conflicting information like we are closer to the end of this now, while at the same time, saying no we are a long way off from the point the plant can be entombed or dismantled.

They might be closer to finding a way to get it out of the media spotlight, but that's not the same as closer to having the problem solved.

I don't think any exposure is acceptable whether its from a Chinese Nuclear test or the incompetence of the Japanese Corporation and Government to have adequate safety measures in place for these plants and these kinds of disasters.

I don't honestly know what is going to happen or what the solution is either, but I can honetly say, no one involved directly with the crisis seems to have any more of a clue than I do, and that my friend is nothing to downplay at all.

Thanks for sharing.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

Yep, just heard about the no fly zone. folks worried sick about radiation clouds killing them but can't wait to go kill innocent people and drop bombs spreading depleted uranium. All those people needing help in Japan. l suppose it's far more important to kill for oil than save the lives of people who are destitute, Crazy world. Peace starchild.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by vox2442
 


Crisis Prompts Exodus of Executives From Tokyo




TOKYO — The crisis at the nuclear power plant 140 miles north of here is leading to a steady but orderly departure of business executives from Tokyo. Foreigners in particular are among those leaving, as concerns grow about the possibility of a catastrophic release of radiation and governments urge their citizens to consider seeking safety elsewhere in Japan or overseas.


www.nytimes.com...

Seems like most anyone who is someone in Tokyo doesn't share your unbridled optimism.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:39 PM
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I would have liked to see them entomb it or surround it with a lead block or something to that effect, but logistically that might be less than possible or infeasible.

I think the main problem though is of course the risk of it contaminating ground water or melting through and providing even greater contamination if it is simply surrounded or entombed.

My guess at least.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Here is a video of a Naval Officer I believe, giving a press release on youtube about an evacuation from Japan. He's tiptoeing as well.



i cant see this video, i hate when ppl want to make something viral and remove their own video, i have seen this before, but i dunno about this video, can u post another source?

edit: i meant i can't see oh
edit on 17-3-2011 by Russorevresbo because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


thanks for putting into words what i have been wondering about for days. i would have done it, but i have been building a concrete bunker in my backyard and simply haven't had the time.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by Russorevresbo

Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Here is a video of a Naval Officer I believe, giving a press release on youtube about an evacuation from Japan. He's tiptoeing as well.



i can see this video, i hate when ppl want to make something viral and remove their own video, i have seen this before, but i dunno about this video, can u post another source?


wow...that was fast...this video has already been taken off u tube...1 minute after my previous post...



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyx
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


thanks for putting into words what i have been wondering about for days. i would have done it, but i have been building a concrete bunker in my backyard and simply haven't had the time.


I hope you are building it deep my friend.

The thread isn't about fear mongering though, it's about asking some hard questions and realizing that our media and government certainly isn't asking them.

By the way I highly reccomend for splerging the extra 1.25 for the Boar's Head Brand vacuum sealed cooked bacon.

Thanks for sharing.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by vox2442
 


Thank you Vox. I personally appreciate the info.

You dont sound like shill to me, everything you have said sounds very reasonable and believable.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:49 PM
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Downplaying an event like this could get people killed. They need to be transparent about this, saving face won't work if you have people dropping like flies because you told them 'all is fine, nothing to worry about'.




posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:50 PM
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Spot on PT! I think you summed up a lot of people's thoughts very well.

The only thing more frightening to me than the implications of this disaster is the collusion between Corporation, Media and Government. The needs of those entities have clearly been placed above the needs to the population, or the population's need to know.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Proto.....

Another timely response that was directly in line with my own train of thought.
This is how I see it.

All of your premises' are true. Every single one of them. We are being fed lies, which is the penultimate of every premise that you have put forth.

The truly casual, yet cavalier, attitudes of the people who are in power to effect emergency measures and mitigate this truly biblical catastrophe is FN mind-boggling.

The press is playing this off as if it is yet another in a million different anomalies, like none in modern history, that are all happening at once.

YES.... Correlation is not causation. I 100 million percent can understand why the truly down to the salt of the fracking earth average Joe (haha) believes in the official "whatever in the hell" storyline, because it is easy.
It doesn't make your blood boil and you can buy into this new age religion crap that your reality is what you make of it. To them, we are all just paranoid and see the bad things in life and can't focus on the positive.

Tell that to those in Japan who have LOST EVERYTHING, along with millions of others around them.

I can tell you Proto.... You know a good bit about me, and I would consider us friends, and you know that a year ago I was in school on the President's List and on my way to a Phd in Psychology, but....

My whole house went and burnt right down to the ground.
Yep. I lost EVERYTHING that I own, and it has taken me more than a year to get 20% back to my old self.

I could not, for the life of me, understand what it is like to not only have that happen to me, but every other person in my 500 square mile vicinity as well.
What is going on BLOWS MY MIND.

This dwarfs Hurricane Katrina, and that is not to mean any disrespect for the victims of that tragedy, but, we lost a city.
These people are losing an entire country that WILL be contaminated from radioactive fallout for the next bajillion years.

If no one reading this has taken the time to read Proto's Rome thread then click on the link in my signature.

We are watching a scripted play and they are following the book of Revelation, and that is unfortunate.
(I am in no way Christian or promoting it. Just read the fracking thread people)

I know that I wake up each day and breath life and am thankful beyond understanding that I have the power to inhale and exhale.
That is all that I can really ask for.

I know that I posted this link in another of your threads, but readers I IMPLORE you to take the time to read the link.

It is.... Oh sooooooo very appropriate.

Cheers brother


S & F
edit on 3/17/2011 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by diamount
 


One of the problems we the people face in these situations, is just like the drastic measures taken in the Gulf of Mexico by BP it might be years to a decade before the full impact of corexit spraying and oil contamination is really known.

Even then much like Gulf War Syndrome, being able to attribute large numbers of people with complex and unusual and varried health problems stemming from one event and source gets harder and harder to prove.

Allready if you look at CNN's hompage, the disaster in Japan is being bumped down bu the Crisis in Libya!

Who wants to see worried Japanese or helicopters dropping water when you can watch the 2011 version of shock and awe?

Soon no matter what is happening in Japan no matter how bad, the attention span of a public on a media driven and controlled roller coaster will be on to the next thrill and turn.

People in Haitti are dying of cholera and living in tents, people care for about 2 weeks until the next hot button issue comes along.

Nothing ever really gets solved or handled, we just rush from one feel bad/good moment to the next.

Thanks for posting.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by loveguy
 



I'm thinking of painting in large letters on my Jeep; NO MORE LIES


I think you should paint NO MORE ACID TRIPS on your jeep. I'm just kidding loveguy but if I saw someone's face melt, I believe I would be wondering what the hell I've eaten!

It might not have anything to do with ingestion...
Here's one for ya'...So much for anonymity. Try to ignore my half-awake smile b-day pic March 5, 2011. I'm posting this in good spirits, this is what the ugly truth looks like. I have no problem living with it...




posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:58 PM
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I don't know much here, BUT BUT BUT!

where are/were the "rescue" ships that have plenty of "Pump" capabilities to get water on the reactors ??????

the US Navy has been very close to the area with helicopters etc.

Helicopters can use pumps and fire hose ????

there are US military bases in Japan too ..... where's the help ????

where's the Japanese ships with water pumps ??????

where's the big cargo planes dropping supplies ????

anybody know??

Are they allowing the reactors to go for a reason ????

here's more fuel on the fire .....


As of December 2009
Important Topic Updates
, there are 35,688 U.S. military personnel stationed in Japan and another 5,500 American civilians employed there by the United States Department of Defense. The United States Seventh Fleet is based in Yokosuka. The 3rd Marine Expeditionary Force (III MEF) is based in Okinawa. 130 USAF fighters are stationed in the Misawa Air Base and Kadena Air Base.

* Army: 2,541
* Navy: 3,740
* Air Force: 12,398
* Marines: 17,009
* Total: 35,688



en.wikipedia.org...


www.jca.apc.org...


Where's all the "help" ??????????


The Seventh Fleet is the United States Navy's permanent forward projection force based in Yokosuka, Japan, with units positioned near South Korea and Japan. It is a component fleet force under the United States Pacific Fleet. At present it is the largest of the forward-deployed U.S. fleets, with 50–60 ships, 350 aircraft and 60,000 Navy and Marine Corps personnel. With the support of its Task Force Commanders, it has three major assignments:


en.wikipedia.org...



7th Fleet Postures Forces following Japan Earthquake and Tsunami
By U.S. 7th Fleet Public Affairs
SINGAPORE - There have been no injuries of any U.S. 7th Fleet personnel, and no serious damage to 7th Fleet assets reported following the earthquake and tsunami that struck Japan on March 11.

Ships in port at Command Fleet Activities Yokosuka stationed line handlers to make adjustments as the water level changed in Yokosuka harbor. No damage has been reported to any of the ships.

Ships at Naval Base Guam initiated personnel recalls, and are standing by to adjust lines, during changes in sea level in anticipation of the forecasted tsunami.


www.public.navy.mil...


Who's doing What here ???? extra DIV



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by loveguy
 


You didn't steal that tiarra did you?

Inquiring minds want to know!



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by Josephus23
 





I can tell you Proto.... You know a good bit about me, and I would consider us friends, and you know that a year ago I was in school on the President's List and on my way to a Phd in Psychology, but....

My whole house went and burnt right down to the ground.
Yep. I lost EVERYTHING that I own, and it has taken me more than a year to get 20% back to my old self.


These are the kinds of things some people never fully recover from, and you are so right, the stricken areas in Japan are really stricken, no amount of New Age enligtenment is going to change the very real hardships they face in the freezing cold, with no homes, no jobs, no power, and a not knowing what's happened to many of the friends and family and loved ones that once made up a part of their immediate world.

It seems adding insult to injury to withhold from people who have gone through so much, the added burden of the truth in regards to their current predicament when it comes to the Nuclear Plants.

I think you will agree the worst part in any bad situation is the not knowing.

Give it to me straight I can handle it!

I think we all can.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by loveguy
 


You didn't steal that tiarra did you?

Inquiring minds want to know!



My wife took this picture because she wouldn't bring me coffee until I submitted a birthday pose. The tiara is my wife's.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


I don't think the US wants it's ships or planes within 50 miles of that plant if there is any way to avoid it.

The truth is that the radiation levels are high enough to concern military commanders to the point that they don't want to expend US Equipment and Personnel if they can avoid it, and they sure are avoiding it.

Thanks my friend.



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