Questions the Skeptics, Media and Government(s) Can’t Answer.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

l too am disgusted with the conflicting reports coming from the media. l feel like l am watching a rerun of the GOM. The lack of information the world experts are getting is a joke. l have been on bbc, cnn,european news, NHK japan and rt. today. The only one that seemed to be able to make some sense to this is RT, probably because they have experience of Chernoble, even they are saying they are not getting enough information. The other thing l cannot understand is when the earthquake hit, how come the us military never helped out? l never saw any us military helping those poor people on any of the news reports, yet they were right on the doorstep. One other thing. Whose insane idea was it to build nuclear reactors on top of a subduction zone, knowing it was prone to regular earthquakes. Peace starchild.

reply to post by jackflap


I don't believe for a second that they don't have the answers, or are operating under the information they give us.

This all smells of CFR (council for foreign relations) type spin control, where they put great thought and care on which emotional hot buttons to push through the type and quality of information to get people to accept it.

reply to post by jackflap


Good idea!!

Have done so...

reply to post by star child

The other thing l cannot understand is when the earthquake hit, how come the us military never helped out? l never saw any us military helping those poor people on any of the news reports, yet they were right on the doorstep.

The US military was there during the earthquake and the tsunami. They began working as soon as everyone else was able to. Believe me, those poor people you are referring to know the US military was there from the get go.

reply to post by grindhouzer


Well pimp a link to that bad boy. I'm sure Proto wouldn't mind and a lot of people who come across it will enjoy your thread as well.

Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by grindhouzer

 

Well pimp a link to that bad boy. I'm sure Proto wouldn't mind and a lot of people who come across it will enjoy your thread as well.

Absolutely, that's what networking is all about!

Spreading information through people, people helping people, people helping people

Originally posted by star child
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

l too am disgusted with the conflicting reports coming from the media. l feel like l am watching a rerun of the GOM. The lack of information the world experts are getting is a joke. l have been on bbc, cnn,european news, NHK japan and rt. today. The only one that seemed to be able to make some sense to this is RT, probably because they have experience of Chernoble, even they are saying they are not getting enough information. The other thing l cannot understand is when the earthquake hit, how come the us military never helped out? l never saw any us military helping those poor people on any of the news reports, yet they were right on the doorstep. One other thing. Whose insane idea was it to build nuclear reactors on top of a subduction zone, knowing it was prone to regular earthquakes. Peace starchild.

I felt the US Military response was lacking too despite there being such a huge presence on the Island and our mutual defense pacts with Japan.

It seems like it was really about the height of stability building these power plants on an island prone to earthquakes and tsunamis, yet honestly I don't know how much that has to do with the Japanese and how much that has to do with us.

We do in fact militarily occupy Japan since the end of World War II and while both parties put a pretty face on it, just who is who in a pecking order that involves the emperor of a long running monarchy, the elected government of the Japanese, and the U.S. Military is probably another thing we only have part of the truth regarding.

Originally posted by Amaterasu

In a system that has no place for cheating to happen...then there cannot be "cheaters." As for sociopaths and psychopaths, I contend they are a product of the twisting and "love-killing" nature of a money/power/energy (three manifestations of the same thing) scarcity system.

THAT is where you are wrong.

A)You make an assumption that your system has no place for cheating. And that isnt so. It could always be wrangled back to the "selfish" system we have now.

B)
Your assumption that sociopaths and psychopaths are produced soley as a result of our "love killing" system. You are contending that, you say, but on the basis of what? How have you ruled our genetics, epigenetics, and infectious agents? And lets be honest. You havent.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
And I am curious, if it is the idea that in abundance - with everyone equally "rich" and those who care willing to raise our children - that such twisting will be minimal...how would I go about researching this? Never before have we had such a society.

Has there never been such a society? Are you sure? Were some of the hunter gatherer societies not at least close to this model? Do you understand genetics? That variation is part of the way a species is built?

And game theorists and other researchers in altruism HAVE done models, including computer simulations of evolution that have shown, pretty definitively, that pure altruism is not feasible. Invariably, a "cheater" arises by chance, and if the altruists do not select against "cheating' the survival benefits of cheating are so great they overwhelm the altruists. Much like we see in progress now.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
In abundance why would anyone be attacking?

In abundance someone would be attacking because there is natural variation in the species. Some people are born "different" and sometimes that different works for us, and sometimes it doesnt. Your whole theory rests on an ASSUMPTION you are making that sociopathy and psychopathy are learned, not organic. And you have nothing to justify this belief. At all.

We KNOW variation occurs because of the way genes work. We KNOW that behavior is substantially genetically driven, (because of twin studies where the twins have been reared apart.) So we KNOW that all human beings are not going to behave equally cooperatively.

Why cannot Humanity be the "body?" You can call me closed minded, but I suspect you're incorrect. I am trying to grasp your points here. A few examples would go a long way.

Ok, Humanity CAN be the body. But think of cancer. In the body, sometimes the body needs to defend the body against the body. A cancer cell, because of some physical factor, ( DNA damage, infection with a virus) is one of your own cells that has been turned traitor to the body. It has become selfish. It wants to live forever, and it wants to divert resources the whole body needs only for its own use. It also wants to spread all over and displace other things that the whole needs in order to function. In its greed and madness, these cells will kill the body as well as itself, trying to benefit itself. It selfish, but it is a mad selfishness that is doomed.

(Do you notice a parallel with how humanity is acting in the "body" of the Earth? Diverting resources from other species for our own use, crowding them out, trying to extend our lives indefinitely and overpopulating? Just so. As above so below, you can see this truth reflected on all levels)

These cells arise in an other wise healthy body ALL THE TIME. You body is constantly sending out your immune cells to hunt them down and kill them. You only develop "cancer" that is detected by a doctor when your immune system fails in its job.

Just so, in human society, there will always be individuals turning traitor. Seeking to benefit from the group at the expense of the group. Either for genetic reasons, or who knows, there have been new studies showing that bacteria and viruses may be implicated in mental illnesses as well. But whatever the reason, there will always be cheaters arising even in an altruistic society. Its the way nature, and sexual selection exacerbates this, keeps variation within the species. Its a given this will be so. And because this is so, you will always need an immune system, on the lookout for these cancer cells, to neutralize them.

We are in this position because "cancer" arose in the body of humankind and we failed to detect it and kill it. If we "cure" the cancer and set up a healthy system, we will still need to have an immune system to ensure that WHEN (not if) cancer arises again, we nip it in the bud.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Proto where do you find all those old songs from?

Hey I don't know but I think this one works real good for this thread too.

Sound quality is not so good but we actually have Duane Allman on guitar for this classic, that sums up life for the Japanese people!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Its the same problem I had with Egypt and the "revolution". All my bull# detectors are going off, I KNOW I am being manipulated and lied to, but I dont know how to get better information.

Originally posted by burntheships
Located this video that has dissapeared.

Right now I dont have the ability to record this - if someone does it would be a good idea to save it.

www.youtube.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Its the same problem I had with Egypt and the "revolution". All my bull# detectors are going off, I KNOW I am being manipulated and lied to, but I dont know how to get better information.

I actually know how to get better information, that's not really a problem, the problem is how to get people who rely on bad information sources to stop believing them.

In our source driven world, what people want are public traceable sources of information from identifiable sources that they believe they can and should trust.

The problem with those are most of them are corrupted, and if you are lucky enough to know someone in the know, you can't really use them as a source in that way that people like to know as to where the information is coming from and independently verify it themselves.

You were right about Egypt of course, that worked out disasterously for the people, but they can put a happy face on anything.

Meanwhile while most of the people of the world are distracted the UN Security Council impossed a No Fly Zone over Libya today, so the US will be doing more to bomb Libyan civilians now, than it will to rescue Japanese ones.

Our priorities are completely backwards, we stick our nose into the business of an unfriendly nation, while we let an ally that is totally dependent on us per our insistance like Japan micro-wave itself.

What a world.

reply to post by burntheships


It's amazing isn't it that if you want honest information you have to go thousands of miles away and to one of our so called 'enemies' in order to get it.

Of course the government just down plays and dismisses that then as propaganda by our enemies.

Thanks for posting that video.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Meanwhile while most of the people of the world are distracted the UN Security Council impossed a No Fly Zone over Libya today, so the US will be doing more to bomb Libyan civilians now, than it will to rescue Japanese ones.

I know. I actually cracked up at how obvious the MSMs little "hey! dont forget the Libya story we are trying to push" blurbs were. They must have been so sad that the earthquake struck when it did. It messed up their coup.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Our priorities are completely backwards, we stick our nose into the business of an unfriendly nation, while we let an ally that is totally dependent on us per our insistance like Japan micro-wave itself.

What a world.

The problem is they arent "our" priorities. They are the priorities of the worlds top 1% in wealth. When you understand everything the US does in that sense, that this isnt about "us" its about that wealthy elite, all of a sudden, it makes perfect sense. Its all very logical.

If we dont want to live this way, if this doesnt benefit us, we need to change fundamentally the way society and our economy works. The problem with the elite is not only their intense selfishness, but that they are mad as well. Like cancer, they will destroy us all out of greed and selfishness. Themselves right along with us.

So all eyes on the no fly zone and turn away from the problems with the reactors.

There's a lot on money invested in nuclear power they are not going to let a little thing like Japan affect that.

Originally posted by colin42
So all eyes on the no fly zone and turn away from the problems with the reactors.

There's a lot on money invested in nuclear power they are not going to let a little thing like Japan affect that.

Companies using Nuclear, Wind, Solar all get additional subsidies per megawatt hour from the government. We pay the utility once, the Government pays it again to reward it for not using coal.

Not only is there big money in Utilities there is big clout too, as well, most people don't like sitting in the dark watching their icecream melt trying to figure out what they are missing on Jerry Springer and the Internet.

This gives the utilitiy owners a lot of power within the shadow government, hence the payouts from government for the alternative fuels.

Thanks for posting.

reply to post by SirMike


It sounds like you are not an expert on nuclear physics or nuclear reactors. Neither am I, but I have considerable experience in plant maintenance, so I know a few things.

An MCC's breaker melts down when exposed to explosions, fires, and high temperature for continuous periods, not to mention most of the plants wiring from the explosion and fires.

I don't know, maybe people can go into the plant, because to use the electrical grid in the plant, someone is going to have to trip all the breakers. Breakers can fuse closed under the right conditions. I think that house wiring would be very suspect.

How much power is produced by the portable generator I guess depends on your definition of portable. 37.5KVA isn't all that much power. Quite a few companies sell generators with more capabilities. The problem is that the plants pumps probably run on 12kv, and I don't think any portable generators produce 12kv. I would think that they would bring in all portable equipment.

The real question is if there is a nuclear meltdown, can it be stopped?

Here is an article I found, but it doesn't give a lot of details.

www.euronews.net...

I didn't find any information as to exactly what a nuclear meltdown means, but Chernobyl is still creating a great deal of radiation, and if memory serves me right, they need to build another tomb around the first tomb, because it is so deteriorated from the radiation.

Once meltdown occurs, my understanding is that it can not be stopped.

Here is a good article on the situation in Japan.

bravenewclimate.com...

reply to post by poet1b


Indeed CNN is now reporting that the efforts to stabilize the situation at the plant in Japan will likely take 'years' in an 'ongoing' process.

Yet interdisperssed throughout as always are the qualifying buzzwords, like poses 'no significant risk' well what's your idea of significant risk? To whom and where? Yea if you are sitting in a radiation proof room in Langley Virginia it poses no signifigant risk, and I sometimes feel this is where they pull this stuff out of their hat from. To where essentially they are telling the truth about it being no significant risk to them, but when it comes to others well...

Selective data like Tepco found no radiation at all on 16 of 17 workers, it doesn't actually say these are workers from the damaged plant though, we are just led to assume that they are.

Yet they could take 17 Tepco workers from the other side of the Island test them for radiation exposure have it come back negative and be telling the truth in their statement.

The problem is the statements are always partial and not well qualified, except for the qualifiers and disqualifiers they throw in to confuse and obsufucate.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Its the same problem I had with Egypt and the "revolution". All my bull# detectors are going off, I KNOW I am being manipulated and lied to, but I dont know how to get better information.

I actually know how to get better information, that's not really a problem, the problem is how to get people who rely on bad information sources to stop believing them.

In our source driven world, what people want are public traceable sources of information from identifiable sources that they believe they can and should trust

I think our only chance to get them to listen and believe is to stick a drug induced Charlie Sheen infront of the camera with the all of the information about this disaster and the masses might pay attention then.

reply to post by meathed


It might take the Budwiser girls being along for the ride in a supporting role too.

All he has to do is say that Ana Nicole Smith was very against nuclear energy and we all owe it to her to solve this problem right away.