Questions the Skeptics, Media and Government(s) Can’t Answer.

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posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 



There was a time when, as a nation, we had our act together, and knew how to pull together as a community to deal with problems, but it seems that greed has washed all of that away.

Yeah, I know, things don't work out like in the movies, but there should be some signs of mobilization.

This should be a wake up call. Clearly the super rich do not provide leadership, and are grossly overpaid.

Sad to say, where the heck is Obama? This is the crisis moment of his presidency, and he has disappeared.




posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

You are correct, Human nature isnt really what most people think it is. But it isnt universally nice and kind and loving either. One of my personal lines of study is "altruism." It turns out, (long argument) in order to create an altruistic social group, you need discrimination. In short, you must always be seeking out and eliminating those within the system who are "cheaters." We might call them sociopaths or psychopaths. Just like your body must constantly be on the lookout for cells gone rogue that we call "cancer."


In a system that has no place for cheating to happen...then there cannot be "cheaters." As for sociopaths and psychopaths, I contend they are a product of the twisting and "love-killing" nature of a money/power/energy (three manifestations of the same thing) scarcity system. In abundance, such twisting will be a very rare case indeed. And Humans untwisted are indeed loving, caring and giving.


Its one of the big problems with the "spiritual" theories. The go too far in their rejection of violence and the "negative" when the truth is "balance." All things must work in their proper place, in balance and harmony. Including "discrimination."


I don't see a need to balance peace with war. The only purpose for war is to gain something, and in abundance, One can gain without war. Without violence. And without money.


Any system we arrive at to keep human beings in good balance and harmony with nature, one that is sustainable, must also operate within the laws of nature. We are not yet realistically at a place where we can pretend human nature is universally loving and kind. It isnt. In no species on Earth is there that kind of universal "goodness" variation can and does arise, and some of that variation has a negative impact on the whole if left unchecked. You do not have to "hate" those who are harmful to the whole, but you do have to select against them. God or nature or both, has decreed that we are in a game of differential success.


I say we ARE at such a place. And that it is the money, or rather the love of it, that creates virtually all the twisting away from our true nature. I will not claim that never will a naturally twisted Human Being exist in abundance...just that statistically speaking, there will be none. And surely, those who choose to break the three Laws should be "selected against," in terms of what We do with them.


We cannot be in denial about that.


Or Beings of a different nature have decreed that We are in a game of differential success based on a system of money/power/energy scarcity. If that system is cast away in favor of abundance, We can overcome most of the ills We see now.


Even in this discussion, if a more equitable society is created, it will mean the end of the last meme.


And rightly so, if We can cast off the meme of consumerism, work ethic, do-what-it-takes-regardless-of-others for money...in favor of following One's bliss, betterment ethic, and do what One can for any in need. Far better a set, I say.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Obama wasnt hired for his experience. He was a total noob. He was hired because he made powerful speeches.

We need to choose differently if we want different results.

I cannot stress enough that we have people in high paying positions of power in every area of expertise WHO DO NOT BELONG THERE. They are there because of nepotism, and political reasons, via the revolving door, etc.

We do not have the most competent people in charge of things in part because competent people would not go along with what the corporate elite want. We need to understand that. We have people in positions who give the answers big money wants to hear. By design. And when things go wrong, and competence is needed, no one knows where it is.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by Hemisphere
 


It is called deregulation.

Why spend money building things correctly, when running a gambling casino (THE STOCK MARKET ) is so much more fun?

It reminds me of the incident when Pacific Gas and Electric had a gas line explode and destroy an neighborhood near me recently. They had gotten voter approval for a rate hike, more money, to make these repairs, and which they spent on ad campaigns trying to convince people that cities should not be in control of energy policies.

The only thing corporations do well, is steal other people's money.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Our "president" is probably too busy planning his
next golf game or another expensive vacation!
We peasants are bothering him with mundane
problems like,nuclear holocaust,gulf oil,no jobs...



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:30 PM
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diagrams showing why water would cool spent fuel pools
diagram/video showing cooling
diagram of plant layout

GE ABWR



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by Amaterasu


In a system that has no place for cheating to happen...then there cannot be "cheaters." As for sociopaths and psychopaths, I contend they are a product of the twisting and "love-killing" nature of a money/power/energy (three manifestations of the same thing) scarcity system. In abundance, such twisting will be a very rare case indeed. And Humans untwisted are indeed loving, caring and giving.


You are wrong. And if you wanted to research it, you would realize that. I used to think much like you. The difference is, by nature I am a fact checker. You are certain in your BELIEF, so you will not research to see if your belief is founded in fact. Beliefs may or may not be true. One has to do the work to find that out, and I have been around the board long enough to know that of all the closed minds in the world, the spiritual closed minds are closed the tightest.


Originally posted by Amaterasu
I don't see a need to balance peace with war. The only purpose for war is to gain something, and in abundance, One can gain without war. Without violence. And without money.


Again, you are wrong. There is another reason for war. Defense. Its why your immune system does what it does. And again, you are closed minded on purpose. You will never see the truth in that, because you dont want to. No where on earth is there a life form that is not engaged in violence on some level. Consider that. Or deny it, as you will.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:32 PM
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I don’t have time to address all the points, although I would like to, so let me take a stab at the easiest/most silly.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTravelerSure these are ‘just’ the roofs that once covered the containment vessels but if the containment vessels weren’t damaged how would pouring and spraying water on the containment vessels actually cool the fuel?


The water being sprayed in is not being directed at the reactors its being sprayed into the spent fuel cooling ponds. Auxillary portable diesel pumos are being used to pump seawater into the reactors.


#2: They plan to restore power to the cooling systems by running outside lines to the main plant junctions?
If this were even possible massive generators could have been airlifted by helicopter to the plant within the first 24 to 48 hours.


Not exactly. The EPS bus (along with the diesel backups) was damaged by the Tsunami but the switchgears in the transformer yard were not damaged.


They say they are going to have to install new cooling pumps to pump sea water, because the old ones are damaged from pumping sea water through them? So how do the new pumps not get damaged too from the sea water in fairly short order?


The portables have been damaged by the seawater, not the hard piped mains. Seawater corrosion would take weeks and months to compromise the main pumps, not just a few days.


#3: They should be called heroes as they may ultimately have to sacrifice their lives?


Right, the real heroes in this crisis are the guys in the internet whining about it.


We aren’t seeing much from the plant and certainly no one is giving statements from within it, and they have in the last 24 hours started assaulting the plant from the air.


I am sure they are sorry that they have more important things to do other than hold hourly press conferences for you.


#4: If no significant radiation has been released why is even the New York Times now reporting Radio Active Clouds that pose minimal health hazards will reach the California Coast by tomorrow?


Because they are idiots?

The NY Times actually has a great chart on the radiation levels at the plants perimeter.

www.nytimes.com...



#5: Clearly these plants are beyond repair, why aren’t they actively entombing them?


Clearly beyond repair … that’s in your expert opionion huh? Remediation work is certainly preferable to dumping thousands of tons of graphite on the site followed by 10,000’s of tons of concrete.


It would seem to me a plant rocked by explosions its structure and equipment exposed to high levels of radiation is not going to be back online next year.


Some of the units might be fit to go back on line as soon as off site power is restored specifically units 5&6 after the integrity of the fuel is verified.


For a week now we have been hearing, don’t worry, phony figures, ridiculous analogies, and what the disaster is ‘not’ as opposed to what it honestly is.


And what is it in your honest estimation? What do you base your opinion off of? Is it based off of decades of experience designing and operating nuclear reactors or is it based off of news reports filed by journalists who took 6 credit hours in science?

Japan suffered an earthquake and tsunami of unprecedented proportion, even by their standards, that has caused unbelievable damage to every part of their infrastructure, and death of very large numbers of people. The media have chosen to report the damage to a nuclear plant which was, and still is, unlikely to harm anyone.

Yes, you heard me right …. the damage to the reactors has not released enough radiation to cause any acute harm and will most likely be insignificant when chronic effects are considered.

We won’t know for sure, of course, until the last measure to assure cooling is put in place, but that’s the likely outcome. You’d never know it from the parade of interested anti-nuclear activists identified as “nuclear experts” on TV or guys like you.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 



We do not have the most competent people in charge of things in part because competent people would not go along with what the corporate elite want. We need to understand that. We have people in positions who give the answers big money wants to hear. By design. And when things go wrong, and competence is needed, no one knows where it is.


Yeah, that has been my experience in the corporate world. The bigger the corporation becomes, the more incompetent it becomes.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by Majestyka
 


Do you seriously believe that propaganda? Those pools they're talking about in the videos have been disintegrated. They talk about a cooling system that works naturally by creating steam and condensing it back into water and having gravity pull it back to the core creating steam once again and so on.

If we could actually make a reactor work like that, why would we need the use of electricity at all in these super safe plants? We could just have that perpetual motion system going all the time and when an emergency strikes, heck then we need back up power. Don't be fooled by those idiots.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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Here is a little more food for thought

The generators/cores #1, #2, #3, #4 are in a nice neat line and very close to each other.

So what if you get #1 under control if #3 is killing the people needed to maintain it. What if #2, #3 and #4 are made safe but #1 stops you from keeping it that way?

As soon as I see the first pictures and heard the first whisper that there was nothing to worry about I knew it could go no over way than how it has.

Now I hear that these modern design stations that could never go Chernobyl are not that modern.

The whole thing has been more about protecting the nuclear industry and its investors than protecting the people.

Just watch in the comming months as the media tries to convince us all nuclear is the only way to go

Of course it is, you cannot make cheap bombs without them.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by jackflap
 


The passive cooling did work as designed at Fukushima. I didn’t realize that engineering now constitutes propaganda.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Definitely the higher up the pay scale you go, the more dead weight you find.

Its unfortunate. Its also why I almost choke every time I hear CEOs talk about how dangerous it would be to cut their compensation. As if they deserve the pay they get in the first place, and secondly, even assuming they were competent, as if 1000 people equally able would not be willing to do the job for a fraction of the price.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by colin42

Of course it is, you cannot make cheap bombs without them.


Are you really trying to say that spent fuel from light water reactors can be weaponized? Wanna think about that a little more?



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by SirMike
 



The passive cooling did work as designed at Fukushima. I didn’t realize that engineering now constitutes propaganda.


True, maybe I was a little hasty in my assessment of those videos. After understanding the logic presented to me in your post and the way the safety systems are functioning at these plants, I digress. There seems to be nothing to worry about. Everything was engineered to accommodate these pesky little explosions and what not that I've seen in other alarmist videos. Thanks.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:59 PM
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There is no doubt that on the part of the Governments of Japan and concerned nations the response to the nuclear element of this disaster has been itself a catastrophe. While it is the case that engineers may yet be able to avoid any more large scale leaks of contaminant, it is also a fact that residents of Japan and citizens of the world were misled about the true status of the incident and the possible consequences. One need only look at the US military response to detectable levels of radiation on ships compared with "appeals to reason" by both governments, scientists, the media, and individuals all over the internet.

This is not an anomaly, major disasters have mostly been handled this way for some time. It's not intentional, at least I don't believe it is pre-designed. It is a case of the authorities being unprepared and relying on half-truth information from the most powerful of local concerned parties (TEPCO). I guess the moral is to keep your eyes peeled, the (His)story on this one is yet to be written.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by SirMike
 


So! Basically you are saying, don't worry, be happy?

If you aren't an engineer, you don't have a right to an opinion?

By the way, the switchgear on the yard might be still usable, but it is still hard wired to the melted down MCCs in the plant.

Bringing in portable equipment would be far faster.

You don't have to be an engineer to realize that the world's corporate controlled media response seems to be centered around how this will affect the markets, rather than solving a world crisis.

Are you a nuclear engineer or physicist? How do you know that this isn't a serious problem?

Because the melt down of one nuclear power plant is a problem, the melt down of several, more than two, should be taken seriously.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by SirMike
 



The passive cooling did work as designed at Fukushima. I didn’t realize that engineering now constitutes propaganda.


True, maybe I was a little hasty in my assessment of those videos. After understanding the logic presented to me in your post and the way the safety systems are functioning at these plants, I digress. There seems to be nothing to worry about. Everything was engineered to accommodate these pesky little explosions and what not that I've seen in other alarmist videos. Thanks.


Passive cooling is not intended to provide indefinite pressure relief. It is designed to keep reactor pressure under MWAP for as long as possible to maintain containment for as long as possible. Reactor builds pressure … steam and fills reactor … water level drops … steam pressure is relieved … water level rises and so forth until water reservoir is depleted.

An explosion of hydrogen gas is preferable if it takes place outside the reactor rather than inside it.

I am sorry of this concept is too difficult for you to grasp.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by SirMike
 


So! Basically you are saying, don't worry, be happy?

If you aren't an engineer, you don't have a right to an opinion?

By the way, the switchgear on the yard might be still usable, but it is still hard wired to the melted down MCCs in the plant.

Bringing in portable equipment would be far faster.

You don't have to be an engineer to realize that the world's corporate controlled media response seems to be centered around how this will affect the markets, rather than solving a world crisis.


My PE license is good in 14 states ... how about yours?

How exactly does a sealed MCC “melt down”? Think quick!

Portable equipment would be faster .. if the voltage of the portable generator is compatible with the plants BUS. You know of any generator manufacturers that make portable generators in 37.5KVA range? Cause I am sure no one there thought of this.

Based on what I am seeing, in large part “the world's corporate controlled media” seems more interested in populating the airwaves with anti-nuclear talking heads.
edit on 17-3-2011 by SirMike because: (no reason given)





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