Questions the Skeptics, Media and Government(s) Can’t Answer.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Great questions Proto! I think this is the answer.
Population reduction starting now!

I sure hope not but here is a scary thought, what happens when you mix a radioactive cloud with a corexit cloud?

Oh boy, there sure is cause for concern here.

Thanks for joining in mamabeth.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Its funny (in a not so funny way) that a week or so back the radio shows were talking up nuke energy.

Is it "relatively" safe? (sorry for the pun) yes. When it goes bad, is it REAL BAD? yep.

is there any way to mitigate future issues with "worst case" scenarios? Dont know. I guess they could have a "lead coffin" onsite for if "IT" happened. I saw this one guy from south america that had developed "tsunami" capsules that could carry 75 people. Cool idea...sort of. 100+ million folks at 75 per unit. These things are going to be at least the size of a good sized house. You will need 13,334 of these things. Minimum for 100K.

Where you gonna put'em? but i digress from the main point.

I've really liked it when "experts" came on to say that Chernobyl "wasnt that bad". One guy said "yeah, 1000 people came down with leukemia but 990 were cured".

1. I dont want leukemia even if its for a short visit.
2. I dont want leukemia treatment.
3. I wonder what ther REAL numbers were.

To the point of ships reading radiation 200 miles off from Japan. That means that a general radius of 200 miles of ground zero is glowing.

How many expectant mothers are freaking out? How many people are going to die?

Twice in less than 100 years? Nope. Thats too much for the Japanese to have to bear.

Will they bounce back? I give it a 90% yes. The "upside" of when the bomb went off was there were no rods left to continue to cook off. It was done and over. This wont be as nice.

relatively speaking.

Originally posted by felonius

To the point of ships reading radiation 200 miles off from Japan. That means that a general radius of 200 miles of ground zero is glowing.

That's not at all how it works. It might be this way if the source of all earth's wind was from the power plant, and it flowed out in a completely 360 degree path. It doesn't though.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The Japanese Government never did really get with the program, they still deny to this day that Hiroshima and Nagasaki ever happened, to the Eastern mindset this is still about saving face, even at the cost of denying to the world what has happened.

The rest of the World Government, take your pick of whichever particular country, are either sincerely trying to help, looking at Japan like a wounded buffalo as wolves who are hunting it to the ground, or interested in being rubberneckers at the scene of the "accident".

Just like Haiti various Government entities and corporations are trying to horn in on the disaster in Japan.

There is however little to no thought of the people dangling to life by a thread.

Instead they are salivating at the thought of bringing in equipment to re-build and make trillions.

Typical two-faced diplomacy in action.

The same as the Green Zone in Iraq these buzzard circle watching for who will make their gullets full.

Carrion, while a natural part of the circle of life, never make me endeared to them.

Whether we're speaking of circling buzzards or idiots with money to make.

reply to post by felonius


Great post and it's a disturbing situation even that psychosomatically many people are going to imagine this stuff is making them sick even if it is not. So the stress and duress people are already suffering, especially those people most at risk, pregant and nursing mothers, people with a history of cancer in their family, those with weakened immune systems especially must be traumatized by this to one extent or another.

Is the government making that better by lying to the people or worse?

I wonder.

Thanks for joining in my wise friend.

Originally posted by Amaterasu

I offer a solution... I'm pretty sure you may have seen it... The End of Entropy (read first) is the foundational piece, The Ethical Planetarian Party Platform is the structure. Both are linked in my sig.

Thank you. I will look at those.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
As to Human nature, yes. There is such a thing, but what we are TOLD it is and what it really is are two different things. Because we are twisted and confined in a system of money with Them in control, when They do bad things, They blame it on "Human nature," when They pull strings and we react, it's called Human nature, but Human nature is loving, caring and giving once the constraints of money are removed.

You are correct, Human nature isnt really what most people think it is. But it isnt universally nice and kind and loving either. One of my personal lines of study is "altruism." It turns out, (long argument) in order to create an altruistic social group, you need discrimination. In short, you must always be seeking out and eliminating those within the system who are "cheaters." We might call them sociopaths or psychopaths. Just like your body must constantly be on the lookout for cells gone rogue that we call "cancer."

Its one of the big problems with the "spiritual" theories. The go too far in their rejection of violence and the "negative" when the truth is "balance." All things must work in their proper place, in balance and harmony. Including "discrimination."

Any system we arrive at to keep human beings in good balance and harmony with nature, one that is sustainable, must also operate within the laws of nature. We are not yet realistically at a place where we can pretend human nature is universally loving and kind. It isnt. In no species on Earth is there that kind of universal "goodness" variation can and does arise, and some of that variation has a negative impact on the whole if left unchecked. You do not have to "hate" those who are harmful to the whole, but you do have to select against them. God or nature or both, has decreed that we are in a game of differential success.

We cannot be in denial about that.

Even in this discussion, if a more equitable society is created, it will mean the end of the last meme.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Great questions Proto! I think this is the answer.
Population reduction starting now!

I sure hope not but here is a scary thought, what happens when you mix a radioactive cloud with a corexit cloud?

Oh boy, there sure is cause for concern here.

Thanks for joining in mamabeth.

On another possible avenue, think of what this will do for the Green Initiatives. Who will gain from such man made disasters such as the BP fiasco and now this one. Just look at what is happening because of our reluctance to adopt a Green Economy! Oh, that is an avenue of approach my friends.

reply to post by jackflap


Unfortunately, human beings NEED this sort of disaster. And worse.

Why? Because we dont change what we are doing until we have to. The upside of all of this disaster, economic, technological, geological, is that the worse it gets, the greater the potential for the worlds people to say, "Enough. This isnt what we want."

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The answer to this question is...
DOOMSDAY,game over folks!

You brought up some very valid questions. Through out this ordeal, I have been beside myself with how this disaster was being handled. However, we have to remember that there are two other catastrophic disasters to contend with as well as the nuclear emergency. We can all agree that the Japanese power company and plant operators got caught with their pants down on this one. A massive earthquake shakes Japan, and the nuke plants go into planned shut down mode, and then shortly after a large deluge comes in to wipe out the generators running the cooling system.

After that, all hell breaks loose with multiple emergencies at other reactors. I have got to give it to the plant operators for doing everything they have with such limited resources, and enduring a tempest I would not wish on my worst enemies. Hell, Hollywood couldn't write drama this good. I have to agree that the information coming out seems flawed and skewered. I blame the MSM for this one. They are running with anything and everything without doing a little fact checking, or confirming the information the being received. It is irresponsible journalism plain and simple. We have to always keep in mind that ratings are supreme. Confusion leads to hysteria, paranoia, and civil unrest. I am as concerned as anyone over this, but those in the media have stop with all the sensationalizing. The Japanese government is handling multiple disasters at the moment, and a gradual release of the information is imperative to maintain order. Chaos will only make things difficult for any kind of recovery. That is how I feel about this. Great thread!

The international response couldn't be more underwhelming.

Preparation for a containment vessel should already be underway.

How is it that international efforts have not worked to provide more equipment

Bring in portable chillers and generators and pumps.

More workers means less exposure.

If Bill Gates is looking for a charitable cause, this would be it.

The lack of response is a clear indicator of the lack of leadership.

How did we get to be so pathetic?

reply to post by poet1b


It really makes you wonder, we spend all these billions of dollars on Homeland Security, and you would think they would think wow, a nuclear power plant would be a number one target of terrorists, what will we do to shut one down quickly if they do successfully attack and breach one?

Evidently nothing!

You would think they would have kits ready to roll and seal these things off and shut them down.

I guess they spend all the dough on hiring people to grope little old ladies?

Thanks for joining in my friend.

The ongoing nuclear meltdown should be priority 1 on planet Earth.

The people who have moved themselves into leadership positions need to lead, or else get out of the way.

Originally posted by djexploit

Originally posted by felonius

To the point of ships reading radiation 200 miles off from Japan. That means that a general radius of 200 miles of ground zero is glowing.

That's not at all how it works. It might be this way if the source of all earth's wind was from the power plant, and it flowed out in a completely 360 degree path. It doesn't though.

Granted that it wont be a "circle". I'll lay odds that at its shortest point, 50 miles is still not a good place to be.

I was being a bit too general.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Proto,
All valid questions, but the thing for me is, With the chaos going on over there how would you expect to get accurate reporting to begin with?
I found an independent grassroots radiation monitoring network here in the states, and so far, just normal variances with daily up and down background readings, nothing has risen and stayed elevated.

Another 'thought' I have addressing existing Nucplants,
this is the perfect opportunity to get them shielded, contain the entire reactor underground, even those already above ground, build high walls, whatever it takes, and cover with massive dirt, the giant hole created from dirt removal? Line it and use it as an emergency contained watercooling supply and build over it as well.

Either that or let's go candles, lanterns, woodstove, bikes and horses.
I'm ready.

reply to post by poet1b


The problem with a popularity based electoral system is that the most popular get elected. Not the most competent.

Although having a background that includes working with hazardous materials in geographic isolation, I think people over estimate our ability to mobilize equipment and people. The movies do not give you a realistic view of how fast we can make things happen. I personally am not that surprised at the pace at which this is unfolding.

I would also like to point out that in line with the first point, many of the people in many positions of great responsibility are there for political reasons. They knew so and so's cousin, are so and sos brother in law, etc.

Our system is not one in which the best and most competent move up, its one in which power and wealth are hoarded among similarly connected people. We really dont have the best and the brightest in charge of things, and this is part of the price we pay for that.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


You know Proto, I must admit those same thoughts have crossed my mind this week. Nice job in voicing all of these mostly unthinkable thoughts. Here in New Jersey we're wrestling with a flooding problem this past week. My grown children in particular are out of house and home after having moved in two days prior to the flooding. They’re OK and will recover. I don't want to get off track but the "Army Corps of Engineers" was behind the flooding problems here. Projects costing huge sums starting in the 1960's have exasperated an ages old flooding problem. Decisions in recent decades were made to protect newly built high-income properties while those downstream have been suffering almost yearly since. That has been largely covered up much like what is going on in Japan. The experts in both cases have dropped the ball, served the bottom line over caution and shown how little expertise anyone has when dealing with the forces of nature.

I've heard reports that these plants were made to withstand earthquakes in the range of 8.2. This quake was logarithmically far stronger than that. At one time the thinking in engineering was "over build" to the max. In recent decades that has been supplanted by "less is more", new building materials, etc. I think these plants could have been built to withstand what happened and perhaps more. The term "redundant systems" is what comes to mind. It's easy to say in retrospect but one can't imagine a particular instance more critical for both over building and redundant systems. These plants have been around for 40 years. The Japanese utilities and the world experts all saw the damage from the Indonesian tsunami of 2004. Am I mistaken or has Japan suffered from historic tsunamis? You would think in 7 years something preventive could have been constructed. Not that anything could have prevented all the damage but you have to think it could have been somewhat limited.

Everything I'm thinking has one thing in common. They cost money, big money. Bigger money than was invested in these plants and that was already substantial I'm sure. Everything you've mentioned has a money connection also. Everything is being spun on the basis of cost savings. Telling people in California not to panic is all to prevent an exodus from that already cash strapped state. It's ironic with the GE involvement in building these plants that the president recently appointed General Electric CEO Jeffrey Immelt as an advisor. Not that Immelt had anything to do with these plants. One wonders about the robustness of any GE nuclear plants.

Didn't we just go through this with 9/11, Katrina and the BP spill?

The government is REALLY being stupid if they think they can delay the matter to the people. I laughed at how the BBC was trying to debunk a supposed claim that stated people should evacuate immediately due to imminent meltdown. www.bbc.co.uk...

Makes me think of the song by Metallica - Master of Puppets. Who is the master behind all these media puppets?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Yeah, you would think since Chernobyl, people paid to serve the public would have put together a plan, but is seems that this isn't the case.

Clearly, the emperor has no clothes.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Yeah, you would think since Chernobyl, people paid to serve the public would have put together a plan, but is seems that this isn't the case.

Clearly, the emperor has no clothes.

We would be so screwed if this happened here too. It simply is not even funny anymore. They create these things, they subsidize these things, they more or less force these things on us, and then they have no way to actually control these things?

It just doesn't get any more unbelievable than this.