Questions the Skeptics, Media and Government(s) Can’t Answer.

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posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


No, it is clearly not under control. What little information is being released indicates that things are deteriorating rapidly, and that nothing is being done to increase the efforts to solve this problem.

The best news is that these reactors are much smaller than the Chernobyl reactor, and have a much thicker steel containment vessel. From what people have posted, it makes sense then that the bigger problem is how much spent nuclear waste is stored on site. It sounds like this stored waste is a bigger hazard than the reactors, and much more vulnerable.

The suggestion for entombment is lots of boron and concrete. Can a boron flood keep the stored used fuel rods from reacting?

Could it be that the amount of stored used fuel rods add up to a potential worse than Chernobyl?




posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Rumor has it that up to 12,500 spent fuel rods were being stored at the plants. Totalling over 1,000,000 pounds of highly radiocative material.

We do know for a fact 'some' spent fuel rods were stored there because they have admitted to used fuel being stored there. It just hasn't been well documented as to how much.

I would imagine concrete and boron would do at least as much as pouring sea water on it day after day while exposing people and equipment to radiation in the process.

Ultimately as the situation degrades over there it's going to become harder and harder to downplay.

While perhaps it was wise to 'downplay' events initially to avoid a panic, not using that ensuing time bought through that dishonesty to orderly start evacuating people and coming up with realistic solutions is only going to lead to the very same panic they were claiming to be trying to avoid when the situation detoriates to the point of no denial, and people who could have been safely gotten out of harms way during the interim find themselves very much in it.

So even the no panic excuse is a thin excuse, while in the meain time Western Coalition Bombers are straffing a country (Libya) rumored to have one of the largest deposits of Fossil Water on earth (water that the radiation can't get too) what a coincidence that is huh?



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



Ultimately as the situation degrades over there it's going to become harder and harder to downplay. While perhaps it was wise to 'downplay' events initially to avoid a panic, not using that ensuing time bought through that dishonesty to orderly start evacuating people and coming up with realistic solutions is only going to lead to the very same panic they were claiming to be trying to avoid when the situation detoriates to the point of no denial, and people who could have been safely gotten out of harms way during the interim find themselves very much in it.


I agree wholeheartedly. I was just checking out some other threads on this topic and there has been an interesting development that I thought I'd share here. I've never heard of this before but I have been educated on it today.


Thursday, March 24, 2011- Neutron beam observed 13 times Kyodo News Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday it has observed a neutron beam, a kind of radioactive ray, 13 times on the premises of its crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant.


search.japantimes.co.jp...

Apparently a neutron beam is the result of the reactor core being breached. It emits a blue beam that is intensely radioactive. So now we have radioactive laser beams flying out of these facilities and still the authorities there believe there is not too much to worry about because it should be under control soon. What the hell?



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by jackflap
 


If it's being directed through some type of prism caused through the explosion or melting of materials in the facility it is possible.

It's also possible though that the neutron beam is being shot in for some reason and not out. A space based weapon that Slayer69 and Youtube doesn't know about either trying to further damage the reactors or to possibly seal them in some top secret attempt to worsen or alleviate the disaster, that here on ATS some might even suspect involves a non-human alien presence involved in the situation.

Honestly it doesn't seem to me that the Japanese and their allies are attacking this problem as resolutely as Russia did with Chernobyl but continuing to downplay it with absolutely no progress in the attempt to get it under control, with only marginal and very limited success in keeping it from getting much worse.

Yet it has gotten steadily worse, and as it does we get less and less news about it.

We sure are lucky to be living in the free west!

Great post my friend.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by jackflap
Apparently a neutron beam is the result of the reactor core being breached. It emits a blue beam that is intensely radioactive. So now we have radioactive laser beams flying out of these facilities and still the authorities there believe there is not too much to worry about because it should be under control soon. What the hell?


Partly, you're reading something that's a crap translation, then adding to it - there's nothing to prompt "is the result of a reactor core being breached" or "emits a blue beam that is intensely radioactive" in the article, as bad as it is.

The terms they're translating as "beam" and "ray" are not quite the same in English, in terms of connotation, this is a sort of Engrish problem caused by running it through a machine translation. Not that it's a GOOD thing they're describing.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

If it's being directed through some type of prism caused through the explosion or melting of materials in the facility it is possible.


No, it's not. It isn't a great thing, though, even if you understand what the article is about.



It's also possible though that the neutron beam is being shot in for some reason and not out. A space based weapon that Slayer69 and Youtube doesn't know about either trying to further damage the reactors or to possibly seal them in some top secret attempt to worsen or alleviate the disaster...


From HAARP, no doubt.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 


Here is some food for thought, imagining that you are pretty sure as to what something is not, doesn't exactly translate to knowing what something definately is.

Its much like Free Masonry, where because the nature of their secret society won't allow for them to define it for what it actually is, they spend a lot of time trying to define it by stating what it's not.

As someone who is obviously not reporting from the scene, and who is not a nuclear physicist your ability to define what something is not, is in fact on par with your ability to define what something is, which is pretty much non-existent on both scores.

You keep pretending to know, I will keep asking questions and qualifying the possibilities as best as I can on a world where information is power, and very little is passed along in it's purest and most truthful form as a result.

Thanks.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


According to Nuclear Physics, when any atom of uranium undergoes fission either spontaneous or by being hit by radiation or a neutron, it splits into two atoms and gives off a number of neutrons . Normally neutrons will go out in all directions when emitted , but if the shielding in the Reactor is Breached in Any way , you get a neutron beam traveling through the breach . This has now been reported at Fukusshima Reactor No. 2 today , and the situatrion there will only get worst now........




posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
As someone who is obviously not reporting from the scene, and who is not a nuclear physicist your ability to define what something is not, is in fact on par with your ability to define what something is, which is pretty much non-existent on both scores.


Well, let's see - I don't know your educational background, but I've got a masters in EE and another in physics. Plus I've worked at Los Alamos long ago, not in bomb design, but in a related field. So I'm not totally uninformed.

Your spin on that story seems to be that it's clear that top secret death beams are being shot in from a secret satellite in space, or somehow "a neutron prism" has been formed by rubble falling JUST RIGHT, and that a blue glowing radioactive death beam is the result. Ok.

Here's mine. Let's review the article -


"Tepco said the neutron beam measured about 1.5 km southwest of the plant's Nos. 1 and 2 reactors over three days from March 13 and is equivalent to 0.01 to 0.02 microsieverts per hour."


0.02 microSieverts is very small. Assuming that the article isn't confusing microSieverts and milliSieverts, you get about 100 microSieverts from eating a banana. We see about 0.2 microSieverts per hour here on the coast at sealevel as normal background radiation. 0.02 is squat. 10% of background. Even if it were milliSieverts they're talking about, and I would guess that's what they meant because it's damned hard to spot 0.02 microSieverts/h of neutrons, it's still small. So, it's hardly a 'death beam'. Oh, and the "blue glowing" thing - that's Cherenkov radiation, which you don't get from neutrons.

So basically, Tepco measured this 'neutron beam' with an instrument, which was a damned good one if they can measure down that low - neutron gauges are notoriously cranky. It wasn't a thing they saw. What do you think they could be talking about? Let's read on...



"The utility said it will also measure uranium and plutonium, which could emit a neutron beam."


Aha! Uranium and plutonium do in fact emit neutrons. Not in a "beam", just randomly. Could it be that the Japanese term for neutron emission or neutron flux might be mistranslated into English by a journalist as "beam"? HMMM. In that case, the statement that they measured a neutron beam at 0.02 microSieverts makes sense.



In the 1999 criticality accident at a nuclear fuel processing plant run by JCO Co. in Tokai, Ibaraki Prefecture, uranium broke apart continually in nuclear fission, causing a massive amount of neutron beams.


And here's more confirmation! I don't need to look this one up, I remember when it happened. They dissolved a bunch of highly enriched uranium oxide into a nitric acid slurry for conversion to uranyl nitrate, and got too much of it in one vessel, and reached criticality. It didn't emit blue glowing laser radiation death beams like some "deathflower" scene (PEW! PEW! PEW!). It did, however, put out a whacking big neutron flux. So, again, they're using "neutron beam" instead of "neutron flux" or "neutron radiation".

The fact that the writer used the phrase "broke apart continually in nuclear fission" is another clue that the translation was sort of clumsy. So I think, given the other context, that you can safely read "neutron beam" as "neutron radiation" or "neutron flux", in which case the article sort of makes sense.



In the latest case at the Fukushima No. 1 plant, a criticality accident has yet to happen.


Maybe...but if you're about to have one, bursts of neutron radiation like this would be what you'd expect to see...



But the measured neutron beam may be evidence that uranium and plutonium leaked from the plant's nuclear reactors and spent nuclear fuel have discharged a small amount of neutron beams via fission.


Read as 'instead we'd rather this were aerosolized uranium or plutonium drifting by".

It COULD be, but if they continue getting bursts of low level neutron radiation and they don't detect airborne uranium or plutonium, then it's likely something in the plant is reaching criticality - a puddle of melted fuel rods, a pick-up sticks clutter of hot fuel rods fallen down in a heap at the bottom of a pool and being moderated by water sprayed in without borate, or one of the reactors starting to pile up fissiles in the bottom of the vessel.

Or, I guess HAARP could be bouncing neutron death beams from an NSA satellite, but I don't think so somehow.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I would imagine concrete and boron would do at least as much as pouring sea water on it day after day while exposing people and equipment to radiation in the process.
I'd imagine the reality is quite different.

When water gets hot, it can boil and in the process it removes a lot of heat, and more water can be added to replace the water that boiled away. If they ever get pumps running again it can even be circulated.

When the concrete gets hot, it can't boil, it can't release or remove the heat like boiling water can, it just keeps getting hotter and hotter and hotter if the fission isn't controlled. And it precludes the possibility of circulating water through the core if they get pumps working.

These are two drastically different scenarios.

If you're trying to stop a partial meltdown from becoming a total meltdown, limiting the maximum temperature is important. Water can do that better than concrete.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


If they ever get pumps running again?

Lets think about that question a minute, since obviously they have no working pumps and haven't been able to get them running again.

The key word being ever.

Now lets talk about this fun and no doubt great for the whole family radioactive steam being released 24/7 from spaying water on this stuff in the open air.

I mean I can't imagine there is much more to talk about that than the words radiocative steam, open air and 24,7 don't convey.

Heaven forbid they entomb this deadly slag and spray that instead.

This is where I am sure you will tell me that entombing the deadly slag will just make it angrier and deadlier.

Oh boy.

This situation is out of control, and the responders clearly don't have a clue how to get it under control.

It is what it is.

Thanks.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Heaven forbid they entomb this deadly slag and spray that instead.

This is where I am sure you will tell me that entombing the deadly slag will just make it angrier and deadlier.
This is where I tell you the three mile island solution, not entombing, worked.

And the Chernobyl solution of entombment didn't work, the tomb is still leaking.

Chernobyl shows Japan the difficult task ahead


From the initial panic at Chernobyl to the lack of a permanent solution 25 years later, it's a lesson in just how hard it is to put the nuclear genie back in the bottle.

Today, radioactivity still leaks from the crumbling structure hastily put up to cover the damaged reactor -- just as it did three years ago, reports CBS News correspondent Bill Plante, who visited the site in 2008.

"Right now the dose rate is something like 200 times over the background you'd have in Washington, D.C.," said Laurin Dodd, of Chernobyl's Shelter Implementation Plan, in 2008.
Entombment didn't solve the problem at Chernobyl.

So far Fukushima seems more like TMI than like Chernobyl.

Once they have the radiation under control, entombment might be the best option, but that will vary by the condition of each reactor I suspect.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 





Well, let's see - I don't know your educational background, but I've got a masters in EE and another in physics. Plus I've worked at Los Alamos long ago, not in bomb design, but in a related field. So I'm not totally uninformed.


Really no PHD? To what do you attribute this lack of focus and ability to follow fully through with things?




Your spin on that story seems to be that it's clear that top secret death beams are being shot in from a secret satellite in space, or somehow "a neutron prism" has been formed by rubble falling JUST RIGHT, and that a blue glowing radioactive death beam is the result. Ok.


Clearly you spent no time at all working in advertising or research and development and I would not be hiring you to frame my position or argument for me based on this kind of lack luster and deceptive presentation of it.




0.02 microSieverts is very small. Assuming that the article isn't confusing microSieverts and milliSieverts, you get about 100 microSieverts from eating a banana.


I don't eat bananas discarded peels can lead to slipping hazzards.




We see about 0.2 microSieverts per hour here on the coast at sealevel as normal background radiation.


We do? Was I drinking, are you sure it was me with you? I really don't recall.




Even if it were milliSieverts they're talking about, and I would guess that's what they meant because it's damned hard to spot 0.02 microSieverts/h of neutrons, it's still small. So, it's hardly a 'death beam'. Oh, and the "blue glowing" thing - that's Cherenkov radiation, which you don't get from neutrons.


Well we are finally getting somehwere, we need to obviously find this Cherenkov guy and ask him what's up with his radiation.




So basically, Tepco measured this 'neutron beam' with an instrument, which was a damned good one if they can measure down that low - neutron gauges are notoriously cranky.


They should probably be switching to Sanka, take a note, pass it along.




It wasn't a thing they saw.


I concur sawing probably wouldn't help.




What do you think they could be talking about?


Why they didn't decide to follow their real dream of becoming a rock star!




Let's read on...


Can I go to the bathroom?




Aha! Uranium and plutonium do in fact emit neutrons.


This all leads to a point right?








Not in a "beam", just randomly. Could it be that the Japanese term for neutron emission or neutron flux might be mistranslated into English by a journalist as "beam"?


I listened to it myself and it clearly translates to "The nation of Israel should be wiped off the map!"




HMMM. In that case, the statement that they measured a neutron beam at 0.02 microSieverts makes sense.


Really a beam that makes sense, could you get it to make your next post for you?




And here's more confirmation! I don't need to look this one up, I remember when it happened.


I am all ears!




They dissolved a bunch of highly enriched uranium oxide into a nitric acid slurry for conversion to uranyl nitrate, and got too much of it in one vessel, and reached criticality. It didn't emit blue glowing laser radiation death beams like some "deathflower" scene (PEW! PEW! PEW!).


I am going to go out on a limb here and guess you first got interested in all this when visiting Start Trek Conventions in a Ford Pinto?




It did, however, put out a whacking big neutron flux. So, again, they're using "neutron beam" instead of "neutron flux" or "neutron radiation".


Thanks you have cleared one major thing up for me, and that's that I really am not presently at risk from not getting out more! Whew...




The fact that the writer used the phrase "broke apart continually in nuclear fission" is another clue that the translation was sort of clumsy.


No it really does translate to "The nation of Israel should be wiped off the map" everyone says so.




So I think, given the other context, that you can safely read "neutron beam" as "neutron radiation" or "neutron flux", in which case the article sort of makes sense.


I have a friend, he's a doctor, good guy, you should give him a call.




Maybe...but if you're about to have one, bursts of neutron radiation like this would be what you'd expect to see...


Under no circumstances am I wanting to or expecting to see any bursts of neutron radiation and tend to frown on all those and things who are thinking this might impress me.




Read as 'instead we'd rather this were aerosolized uranium or plutonium drifting by".


Yeah the reactor seems to have picked up a, what's the purely scientific term? Boo-boo?




It COULD be, but if they continue getting bursts of low level neutron radiation and they don't detect airborne uranium or plutonium, then it's likely something in the plant is reaching criticality - a puddle of melted fuel rods, a pick-up sticks clutter of hot fuel rods fallen down in a heap at the bottom of a pool and being moderated by water sprayed in without borate, or one of the reactors starting to pile up fissiles in the bottom of the vessel.


Yes it sounds like the plant sure has a boo-boo to me!




Or, I guess HAARP could be bouncing neutron death beams from an NSA satellite, but I don't think so somehow.


You really are all over the map.

I appreciate that you know a little bit about science, but the certainty of your conclusions and what you are basing them on would not allow me to make a command decision regarding this situation due to their vagueness and inability to fully assess the situation in absolutes.

It's really just a furtherance of the confusion that is being fed to us in absence of the real facts.

Facts no one believes we have the right to know.

Thanks for posting.



edit on 23/3/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 03:42 PM
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The real tragedy is that people in the west are totally obsessed with some small radiation leak from a power station which will never affect them, whilst hundreds of thousands of people are destitute and homeless and maybe tens of thousand dead .....



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Bedlam
 

You really are all over the map.


Ah, but the facts aren't what you really want. You want secret neutron beams from space. You want glowing death clouds. You want HAARP earthquakes. Nothing less is interesting to you, and anything less must be disinformation.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 


SOURCE: news.yahoo.com...

"For those close to the crippled Japanese plant, the situation is very different — and could keep getting worse.

According to the Austrian institute, local weather conditions at the end of the week could bring more radioactivity inland instead of out into the Pacific."

THERE'S your HAARP at work...i thought all the radiation was supposed to dissipate over the Pacific??? LOL
=P



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Bedlam
 

You really are all over the map.


Ah, but the facts aren't what you really want. You want secret neutron beams from space. You want glowing death clouds. You want HAARP earthquakes. Nothing less is interesting to you, and anything less must be disinformation.


You will be wanting to find a quote no doubt that you can post that can be directly attributed to me saying such things.

Here on ATS if someone comes in a thread and says Reptillian overlords sour the Milk at Winn-Dixie, I might very well say later, "And some here on ATS even think Reptillian overlords are souring the Milk at Winn-Dixie" it doesn't mean that I agree with them or am one of them.

But hey you go ahead and dig a actual in context quote that supports your position that is my position and in the mean time I will just call out the fact that you can't and for some reason you want that to be my position.

I wonder why?

By the way if you want to learn something about Public Speaking, Ben Franklin was very good at not marrying himself in the minds of the crowd to his own position, or even revealing it, but would often say, something like "Some think Bedlam is a disinfo agent".

See when Ben would do this he knew he was just telling others what some said, so he wasn't saying it himself, but if the crowd seemed to think that was a good idea, Ben might then agree with them.

Like I said I haven't seen anyone present quality well sourced sound absolute definitive information that I would feel comfortable making a command decision on.

My real questions aren't being answered fully or accurately by the press or the government.

Great of you to speculate for them, I can appreciate for a technocrat that it's a fun mental exercise in academia but it's not sound or well informed.

Thanks.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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How about instead of entombing these plants, they build a huge pool around them and fill it full of water. The bring in new pumps, now plumbing, and eventually a housing up over the giant pools.

This would cool everything down.

Or they could wait for things to get worse and worse.

Did your read about the warnings to Tokyo water due to radiation?



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by crazyray
THERE'S your HAARP at work...i thought all the radiation was supposed to dissipate over the Pacific??? LOL
=P


Mwa ha ha! We've set the controls on HAARP to drive the radiation into CHINA!!!11!

It was our plan ALL ALONG!!

You can see it in these links where you see a thinly disguised Dick Cheney working the controls of HAARP to destroy humanity!










posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 


OMG, dude. I spit my tea all over my government issued cubicle!!!! Priceless.





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