Questions the Skeptics, Media and Government(s) Can’t Answer.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Thepreye

 

Its all good. You dont like nuclear energy.

Totally fine with me. Im not here to defend nuclear energy. I really dont care enough. My point is purely, "not liking it" is not the same as a reasoned judgment of its relative safety compared to other energy sources.

Gee thanks for recognising and giving weight to my opinion, though you are wrong in your read on me I'm quite pro Thorium reactors, if you look at my opinions with open eyes and forget your prejudices you might find them to be surprisingly valid and not just the whim of a fool, my examples perfectly exemplified the extreme risks of the Uranium/Plutonium fuel cycle, imho the risks are too high and unnecessary, yet they take them time and time again which implies an ulterior motive.

There's too much emotion in energy planning is as much a falsehood as the liberal media, cushy prisons, soft cops and everything on the Internet is fraudulent

Very nice post.. In times like this, the weird thing is, that Alex Jones is probably the most reliable source of information in terms of media coverage..

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


When it comes to emergency back up generators, which are expected to stay in place for several years, typically the life of the plant, of course they are properly installed on concrete pads with secondary containment for possible fuel leaks, and monitoring systems.

With a portable generator designed to be dropped into place, they use skids. Here is a link with generators up to 159 kva, of course, they provide 480 v, and don't supply 12kv, which is the big game stopper. As someone pointed out, I don't think they make portable 12kv generators.

www.justgenerators.co.uk...

reply to post by Thepreye


You dont get it. Im not prejudiced. Honestly it just sounds like you want to fight and I dont. My point for the 3rd time, was only that whatever type of power we choose to use, we should weigh the costs and benefits of it. Im not here to bash Thorium, or stump for nuclear. Im just arguing whatever choices we make should be made on real data, not opinions or fears or whatever.

reply to post by poet1b


Wow. Those are tiny. I was thinking they would need something more like these.

www.fema.gov...

The generators are so large that they are housed in cargo containers. Matson's three generators-together providing power to three container cranes and four banks of refrigerated containers-are located centrally to crane operations.

Yeah those teeny ones wouldnt need to be mounted on a concrete pad. Lol. But Im not sure they would power the whole cooling system.

Edit to add, But I have NO idea what size they need. Let me make that clear. i was just thinking matson container sized, so I really didnt have a good visual.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Thepreye

 

You dont get it. Im not prejudiced.

. Im just arguing whatever choices we make should be made on real data, not opinions or fears or whatever.

And I'm just saying the fears are real, rational and deserve to be counted as such, for a person trying to avoid a fight you are free with the condescension and the " you don't get it" line.

Your prejudice is that you think the fear is irrational and that the correct authorities are not acting in a corrupt manner, they are.

Small note on the Diesel Generator theory. They do not produce in any way industrially Portable Diesel Generator Sets, that can drive twenty four 12KVe Electric motors, on the entire globe. Not even one to my knowlegde.....


No disrespect, I'm in the field in question (Critical Power) and YES they do make gen-sets that big. Bigger in fact.
24 pump motors at 12KW=288,000 Watts=2.9KW (1) of the gen-sets below would cover that no problem
Mitsubishi Diesel Engine 1MW Generator

1) Engine: Japan origin Mitsubishi diesel engine
2) Prime Power: 1000kw ( 1MW )1250kva
3) 3-phase AC 50hz output
4) 24V DC starting battery
5) open,soundproof or trailer type
6) 269L/hour diesel consumption
7) 4660*2220*2650mm, 9820kgs

Generator Features:
Prime Power 1250kva 1mw
Connect Type 3-phase and 4-wire
Frequency 50Hz
Voltage 230/400V (adjustable)
Voltage Control AVR
Power Factor 0.8 (lagging)
Excitation Mode Brushless Self-Excitation
Insulation Class H/H
Protection Grade IP21-23

Intelligence control panel, water heater, oil-water separator battery charger, daily fuel tank, sound-resistant canopy, weather-resistant canopy and mobile trailer

These are industrial use, as they are 3-phase/4-wire/grounded. You couldn't start all of the pump motors at once due to in-rush current, and though not ideal, they would in fact work.
I think it could be done in a crisis, esp. since we're talking diesel fuel, not gasoline (in short supply). Military should have been able to set this up, I would have thought by now. Unless, and it's possible that pumps/lines/motor mounts were damaged/washed away/broken during tsunami, the motor wiring from controls to the connections are shorted due to salt water intrusion or that the infrastructure is damaged to the point where fuel brought by tankers can't reach the plant safely for fueling the gens. All speculation on our parts though. No idea what ACTUAL conditions are at the site. My thoughts are with the Japanese people who lost their lives, and the technicians at the plant are hero's for sticking it out and giving it every attempt.

S&F of course, Proto!
You always posts threads that are interesting and respectable. I was thinking some of the same things, radiation is hard to prove as a contributer to sickness when it is only enough to give people cancer...
A lot of corporations make people sick this way without a trace that they did it. It makes me look at these international megacorporations with more sadness...
I DO know that when I had a MRI last year, it made me sick the whole next day from the radiation...
Yeah its safe.

reply to post by Clearskies


Exposure to radiation is never safe. Different people have differing reactions to different levels of radiation exposure. Have you ever seen an X-Ray tech stay in the same room with you while you are bombarded with X-Rays... No. You have not.
It is very similar to heavy metal exposure. That is the reasoning for using a mercury base in vaccines. It acts as a preservative.
Food can be irradiated, especially fruits and veggies, in order to preserve it as well.

The most sickening aspect to this entire disaster, which DWARFS both Katrina and 911 combined IMHO BTW (no disrespect meant to the victims), is the massive amount of straight up lies being told to the people through the media.
The premise of this thread.

The zone that supposedly has the highest levels of background radiation continues to expand daily.
But yet the people are not being evacuated.

We lost three buildings in 911 and a city in Katrina, but this will essentially cripple the ENTIRE country of Japan, and most likely end up costing hundreds of thousands of lives over the long run.
Think about how many people have had their lives ruined by 911, and that was just three buildings in one city.
Or how many people lost it all in Katrina, but that was a flood, when the water receded then the imposing threat was more or less gone.
And it was ONE city, and the disaster hit hard and was then done.

The radiation damage done from this will last an untold number of years and cause untold damage to the genetic heritage of children born from the survivors generations from now.

A man used a term in the movie The Corporation that is very appropriate at this time.

Inter-generational terrorism.

I want to say "pray for Japan", but what in the hell will that do?
What is God going to do about 4 nuclear reactors that are in full fledged meltdown mode.... make it rain?

The administration behind the emergency management in Japan should all be hog tied and shot execution style.
(that was sarcasm... kind of)

I am honestly speechless at this point.

good post proto,thanks........It helps to realize that despite all the crazy explanations on the subject it is possible to get to the pertinent questions ..we may only end up with the truth of suspicion ..like 911 or 77 the story leads to the corporation but never gets to the people behind the fiction......I was hoping to hear from James Corbet but his site has been quiet from around the 3rd ...I do have a interview between Bonnie Falkner and Mike Hudson ... www.kpfa.org... Financial and fiscal austerity policies; the appeal of economic austerity to bankers; economic depression and war; post-WWII vs. post-cold war economic policy; government to government grants vs. commercial lending; the euro and dollar; privatization in New Zealand and elsewhere; social unrest; speculation and prices; criminalization of the economy; impoverishment of the US. It is a good show.....your posts draw in many good comments,but like most hear ,having the solution to the problem wont come from one guy of gal but it will come,that I am sure.. it will...............A alternative power source could have pulled along side the plants using a ship,divert the power4 from the generators on board and supply the currents needed to run the pumps or use the pumps on board to supply the pumping ...they usually have lots of fire hoses on board as well...there is no reason that it has taken them as long as it has... reality is radical after all .. peace

I am a bit surprised to now see CNN being so blunt about the possible radiation damage that will be done to this entire generation of Japanese people.

Screw the infrastructure damage people. It is all about the radiation.

Los Angeles (CNN) -- The cities flattened by last week's earthquake look eerily similar to the decimated buildings Shigeko Sasamori saw after an atomic bomb was dropped on her hometown in 1945.

The floodwaters from the tsunami -- the waves of debris and bodies -- remind her of the rivers in Hiroshima, Japan, swamped with corpses.

And the struggle to contain radioactive emissions at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant makes Sasamori, 78, wonder if the crisis there will plague a new generation in Japan.

link to source

So now the Japanese authorities are finally admitting something.

Radiation does kill people.

The moment nuclear plant chief WEPT as Japanese finally admit that radiation leak is serious enough to kill people
* Officials admit they may have to bury reactors under concrete - as happened at Chernobyl
* Government says it was overwhelmed by the scale of twin disasters
* Japanese upgrade accident from level four to five - the same as Three Mile Island
* We will rebuild from scratch says Japanese prime minister
* Particles spewed from wrecked Fukushima power station arrive in California
* Military trucks tackle reactors with tons of water for second day

The boss of the company behind the devastated Japanese nuclear reactor today broke down in tears - as his country finally acknowledged the radiation spewing from the over-heating reactors and fuel rods was enough to kill some citizens.
Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency admitted that the disaster was a level 5, which is classified as a crisis causing 'several radiation deaths' by the UN International Atomic Energy. Officials said the rating was raised after they realised the full extent of the radiation leaking from the plant. They also said that 3 per cent of the fuel in three of the reactors at the Fukushima plant had been severely damaged, suggesting those reactor cores have partially melted down.

link to sources

By now we all know that the government/business apparatus that runs these biblical disasters waiting to happen energy producing nuclear bombs downplay the possible disaster scenarios as much as possible.

I really do not like fear mongering, but this is bad.

reply to post by Josephus23


They have to 'downplay' these while the media sticks its nose into the whole disaster and inflates it to be many times worse then it is so the people sitting comfortably at home behind their TVs half way across the world don't nag on the issue further. If the media said that aloud Americans would be wanting blood because they believe radiation will breeze on over to their neck of the woods and make their life a little different.

You take the media away from the situation, the company and government can be left to their own devices to work and fix it without a camera being shoved in their face watching their every move. It adds unnecessary pressure when you have the whole world watching and the littlest mistake will get people HALFWAY across the world in an uproar because their life might change a bit. You take the media away, the Japanese don't have a camera shoved in their face and in their shelters while people recuperate.

reply to post by OneLife


Very poignant statement.

The media complicates every single thing in which it involves itself.
And the reason for that is because it does not shoot straight.

Buckminster Fuller said this about the television -"It has so much potential".

And he was right. The media should be the fourth estate, much like we are here at ATS, but the US Federal Government Inc. usurped truth in media and advertising long ago.

And we really can't know how people would react if the television was not there, because we now have three generations of people who have grown up in the age of television.
Or it could be more appropriately named the "age of public relations".
Because media is used to shape opinion rather than deliver the harsh unabated truth of the matter.

And unfortunately, the trend seems to be growing instead of shrinking.

I personally do not own a television. I try to avoid them at all costs.

I despise the media and all that is involved in the genre of public relations in communication.
Because the goal is not to let the individual decide what to believe about a situation, but rather to tell the individual HOW they should feel about a situation.

As Proto replied to me in an earlier post.

The reality of the disaster is not as bad as being lied to about the reality.
Just give it to us straight. We are all adults.

Thanks for the reply.

articles compiled to provide interesting and useful information about Japan Crisis

soulsecretservice.wordpress.com...

reply to post by JBTECH71


Thanks for that info, I wasn't aware that they produced Gensts with that sort of capacity. Even still as mentioned earlier the logistics would be gigantic barriers to overcome in my opinion.

Logistics is more than likely a major barrier in the efforts. Like I said, we've no idea of damage done to actual pump piping/motors/salt water intrusion etc. The entire systems could be compromised, though I would think some of the systems would still be functional or why bother running new power lines to the plant? I was thinking use the dual prop, heavy lift helicopters to drop gen-sets at site via military, get them hooked up and fueled. Easy to armchair quarterback from here though. Seemed very plausible to me to get power back to just the critical systems needed to bring the crisis under control.

Originally posted by JBTECH71
Logistics is more than likely a major barrier in the efforts. Like I said, we've no idea of damage done to actual pump piping/motors/salt water intrusion etc. The entire systems could be compromised, though I would think some of the systems would still be functional or why bother running new power lines to the plant? I was thinking use the dual prop, heavy lift helicopters to drop gen-sets at site via military, get them hooked up and fueled. Easy to armchair quarterback from here though. Seemed very plausible to me to get power back to just the critical systems needed to bring the crisis under control.

Actually it's a pretty common trick in the misdirection game that many in power play. You simply create a flury of activity and experts to talk up what they are doing. If and when it fails, you then blame it on some 'late' development that they pretend wasn't known at the onset of the activity. It makes it look like something more is being done than is being done, and someone has a clue as to what they are doing.

I think our major disasters whether it's Katrina, the Gulf Oil Spill, Chernobyl etc highlight that usually no one has a clue as to what they are doing, and they just keep throwing stuff at the wall until something finally works.

People we are taxed collectively trillions of dollars so the governments can be 'prepared' for these things, yet they never are.

They can somehow manage to run out wargame contingencies for every country on earth 30 years from now, based on all kinds of hypotheticals at the pentagon, but they never seem to have run out the scenarios of their own toys and nature running amuck in a way that creates a effective response to them.

Want to keep making excuses for it, sound every bit as intelligent as the talking heads that they call into to dress up the windows?

Great! That will solve life's problems.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Brilliant post once again proto. l tell you what could be really interesting.lf someone could research and find out where all the nuclear reactors that GE have built are and how many of them are built on active earthquake zones, subduction zones and major fault lines. l read in another thread recently that GE is owned by either the Rothchilds or the Rockefellers that really peaked my curiosity. Now please bear with me, after all, this is a conspiracy site, Now, just suppose that NASA, who we get most of our information about space from is not being honest with us. We only have their word for all the information about all the things that are supposedly happening in space. lets face it there is no "body" that can check ALL the information we are fed. l wish l could do the research into this but l work long hours and unfortunately l don't have the time. How convienient it is that we now have all these space anomalies to blame and "mother nature" too. l smell a den of rats somewhere laughing their heads off at us for being so gulible.
Peace starchild.

reply to post by star child


Interestingly enough one of the home page threads this morning is an MSNBC piece on the Banksters and the Fed where they are compared to Don Corleone and Con Men and a Mafia.

Yet oddly enough when the host of the piece was discussing solutions with the 'experts' called in, one of the Congressmen Grayson from Florida who helped co-sponsor Ron Paul's audit the Fed Bill, stated that in Japan there solution to these kinds of financial misdealings and problems is Hare Kare!!!!!

The Host then repeated how unlikely Hare Kare would be in America, yet is it possible that all that is afflicting Japan right now is a man made disaster with a aim to destorying there a system that was not as close to collapse as it was everywhere else?

With trillions of dollars in property damage, parts of the country going to be rendered permanently uninhabitable, was all this designed to help Japan collapse it's financial system in step with all the others that are bound to come crashing down soon.

Horrible to think about, until you realize the kind of murderous and treasonous games that the Powers that Be play.