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Chemtrail Debunkers....

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posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 



You do know that contrail formation and duration is subject to the temps and humidity in the upper atmosphere and not at ground level don't you?

If the uppers and humidity are conducive,then contrails will form, linger for several hours, and spread forming cirrus cloud.....it is totally weather related.


They tell you the humidity of the upper atmosphere on the news in the morning?




posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by gloomyblue707
reply to post by Jack Squat
 


like you i was too a skeptic... until... a strange misty cloud came lower and lower to the ground until it was literally raining down over the cemetary... i could feel extreme nausia... im sorry i dont know what kinda proof you need... but getting poisoned and constant strange cloud patterns i have never witnessed or my parents or grandparents have never witnessed... the truth is up to you and how you want to deal with the facts... denial works too... lol


I feel like this is a good example of what I was talking about before about connecting dots that may not actually connect in real life. Your "proof" is that you say fog and felt nauseous. People are fickle, and I'm willing to bet that you were alright familiar with the chemtrail theory at that point in time, meaning your nausea could have been routed in your anxiety. As for the strange cloud patterns, as I stated before, lingering trails have documented evidence dating back to the 50's (at least) so don't you think it's possible that you just never took notice until you read about "chemtrails"?



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


yes most of do understand what a contrail is thanks... To someone who obviously has an open mind and can notice the difference on a day when its 100 degrees outside and very little humidity and you see chemtrails at or about 2000 feet... you begin to wonder why the spread out like that and form a thick rainbow sheed looking haze over the entire sky making it feel electric in the air almost and very odd. I have never seen a contrail do this. not once.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by gloomyblue707
reply to post by Phage
 


I have never seen a contrail do this. not once.


Sure you have.. you just have a different name for it.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by gloomyblue707
reply to post by Phage
 

and very little humidity and you see chemtrails at or about 2000 feet... .


These are the kinda things you need to refrain from saying. "2000 feet" is a complete guess. It's impossible to tell how high up a plane is when you're standing on the ground.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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unless you were there at the cemetary the day i witnessed this event... you really wouldnt understand exactly how i feel... and trying to convince me that i am connecting the dots... obviously so.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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Nice video here (at about 5:00). Persistent contrail in Antarctica at ground level.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by Jack Squat
 


i was estimated i wasnt stating it was exactly at 2000 feet. at or about means in my opinion i feel it was around that elevation i could be wrong it could be 5,000... i was simply stating what i saw... Geesh LOL



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by gloomyblue707
unless you were there at the cemetary the day i witnessed this event... you really wouldnt understand exactly how i feel... and trying to convince me that i am connecting the dots... obviously so.



Don't get me wrong, even I get a weird type of anxiousness the days I see the sky filled with dozens of lingering contrails, so there's clearly a part of me that still entertains the possibility... I just have a hard time fully committing to the theory without any irrefutable evidence, as so far, most of the "proof" I've seen has been based on gut feeling, debatable evidence, and typically requires doubting official explanations.
edit on 17-3-2011 by Jack Squat because: grammar correction



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 





It's interesting that the "chemtrail" investigators don't seem to understand some very basic things about contrails. It isn't "a little heat from a jet engine" that causes contrails to form. It is the water vapor in the exhaust which does it. The moisture "triggers" the formation of ice crystals.


Okay, fine. But in a dry, warm climate that should be the end of it and they should disapate like normal contrails do. I'm talking about the stuff that hangs a round for a lot longer than the heat and moisture from a jet engine would.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 

I find it interesting that "chemtrail" researchers cannot (or will not) understand that the weather at the surface has nothing to do with the conditions at 38,000 feet.



edit on 3/17/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by Jack Squat
 


nah i dont get anxious at all... it really pisses me off... I love California... this is my home state i was born here and i plan on dieing here... i just see what i see and i know what i know ... do i know it all.. nope... do i see it all ...nope... but what i do see for sure is unnatural because its being created by man made planes... now to those who dismiss chemtrails as common contrails i would say you are simply not paying attention or do not have an open mind. You trust your government to look after you always and NEVER put you in harms way... well guess what ...you'd be dead wrong. Clearly you will have to experience something like this for yourself or you may never experience something like this maybe this jus doesnt happen often enough but what does happen in odd patterns is chemtrail patterns zig zagging across the sky in areas there is little to no commercial jet traffic. Im not going to post link and pictures and all that good stuff because it wont help you on your own journey of truth... its pretty much useless for me to state anything else. I can see you are skeptical and i really do not need to convince you, just know that not everyone out there go around crying wolf... sometimes the wolf really is right there waiting. and no one listens



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 





They tell you the humidity of the upper atmosphere on the news in the morning?


What humidity levels are you going off of? Because it doesn't matter if it feels humid to you or someone else, since you are on the ground.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by joshnichols189
 


No, but somebody has done some great research

www.watchthesky.org...


The images of Chemtrail Spray Operations on these pages are displayed with the associated upper atmosphere weather data for the twelve hour period represented by the time and date stamp on the image. In all of the examples, the upper air data is displayed with at least TWO and in some cases THREE different National Weather Service Monitoring Sites which encompass thousands of square miles of Arizona. In every example, the upper atmosphere relative humidity levels required for jet exhaust to form "Persistent Contrails" (60%) ARE NOT FOUND at any elevation in the sounding data for the 12 hour period represented by the time on the image at any of the monitoring sites.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by gloomyblue707
reply to post by Jack Squat
 


i just see what i see and i know what i know


And what if you're wrong? What if you live the rest of your life in paranoia, hating the government for spraying chemicals on you... and they're not?
edit on 17-3-2011 by Jack Squat because: the reason for my edit



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 

There is no "60% rule" for persistent contrail formation.
There are many hours difference between the time of the images and the sounding data on that page. . Weather changes.
edit on 3/17/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by coyotepoet
reply to post by network dude
 


Very clever Network Dude:




there are two things you need to have lots of lines in the sky. One of them is a whole bunch of airplanes. The second, is conditions that are favorable for consistent contrail formation. It's amazing how countries very close to the equator don't seem to be affected by the bad man spraying them. The bad man must only like cooler climates. Perhaps the bad man is really the bad woman and is a bitchy 55 year old going through the change. that would explain alot.


Focusing on the first quote about South America and "cooler climates" and not saying anything about the American southwest in the second quote where the winter time temperatures are 75-80. That does not seem like a cooler climate to me.

www.wunderground.com... go to the link. Click on any region you want. You will see the current information on the Jet Stream. It's important to notice where it is coming from so you will understand what kind of air it is bringing with it. If it comes from the extreme north, then I would hazzard a guess that it would be bringing arctic or cold air. If it's coming from the south, then it would bring warmer, moister air. I have learned a little about this because of these discussions. A weatherman or someone who has a degree in climatology could explain it much better. But this along with air samples is how people can predict the weather. (they don't use chicken bones)


Or this quote from General Lee talking about the same thing in another Southwestern US state with a warmer climate.



Living in AZ, we have (had) some of the driest, clearest skies in the nation, if not the world. We frequently have skies that are clear blue as far as the eye can see. If the skies were conductive to creating clouds, then they would have clouds. A little heat from a jet engine is not going to create enough moisture from out of "thin air" to create a blanket of clouds a mile or more across. The normal contrail is condensation. You get the same effect when you exhale outside when it's cold out. You can see your breath. It quickly dissipates, it doesn't transform into a layer of fog 10 feet wide.


It's interesting how you too only focus on the things you want that prove your point.


I tend to only offer evidence I understand. That way I can discuss it intelligently. (or at least appear to)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by Jack Squat
 


i dont hate the government at all... i dont hate anyone... hate is ugly. what i do not like or agree with is stuff done to our earth without the general concensus of the population... I will never agree that there are no chemtrails because what i have learned and saw with my own eyes. Have a good day sir.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by gloomyblue707
reply to post by Jack Squat
 


I can see you are skeptical and i really do not need to convince you, just know that not everyone out there go around crying wolf... sometimes the wolf really is right there waiting. and no one listens



I don't think anyone believes that you are crying wolf... I'm certain that you genuinely believe what you are typing. I just think you might be too easily convinced.

It's not about my not having an open mind as has been your mantra throughout this thread. I went from being ignorant, to blindly believing conspiracies based solely on my deep routed belief that the world is run by bad people, to being skeptical enough to always look at the opposite point of view thoroughly and making an educated decision.

My concern is that your mind might be too open and you're letting your imagination run a bit wild.

"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out."

-Richard Dawkins
edit on 17-3-2011 by Jack Squat because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by gloomyblue707
reply to post by Jack Squat
 

I will never agree that there are no chemtrails because what i have learned and saw with my own eyes


We'll skip the "my own eyes" part on account of humans being flawed and fickle. What I AM interested in, is what you have learned, and where you learned it. So... what have you learned, and where did you learn it? Personal experience is unacceptable data.



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