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Chemtrail Debunkers....

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posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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When somebody makes a comment like "we'll probably all be dead and gone" before we know the truth, that's a cop out and a subtle way of saying, "I'll never agree with you, regardless of the evidence presented". There are those in certain circles who will argue that the sky is red even though it's blue. You say it's blue and they say, "prove it". You present your evidence and cite sources and they say, "how do you know those sources can be trusted". In other words, they aren't here for truth, they are here to debunk, regardless of truth, evidence, etc. Don't bother responding to them; they can't be reasoned with.

As far as definitive "proof", the only real "proof" we can get is video of somebody adding stuff to fuel and signing an affidavit stating that they are adding chemicals to the fuel to make chemtrails. And of course, if it's on Youtube, nobody will believe it because its, well, on Youtube. In other words, there will never be "good enough" proof for some people. And they believe our lack of proof in fact "proves" their position, that there aren't chemtrails.

Sometimes you can use deductive reasoning to reach a reasonable conclusion. My reasoning tells me that if two high altitude aircraft fly through clear blue skys, and one leaves a "normal" contrail, disappearing after a mile or two and another leaves a chemtrail, continuing as far as the eye can see, then spreading out like a blanket to create an overcast, there is clearly a significant difference in what those two aircraft are putting into the air.

Living in AZ, we have (had) some of the driest, clearest skies in the nation, if not the world. We frequently have skies that are clear blue as far as the eye can see. If the skies were conductive to creating clouds, then they would have clouds. A little heat from a jet engine is not going to create enough moisture from out of "thin air" to create a blanket of clouds a mile or more across. The normal contrail is condensation. You get the same effect when you exhale outside when it's cold out. You can see your breath. It quickly dissipates, it doesn't transform into a layer of fog 10 feet wide.

The fact is, sometimes in life, quite frequently in fact, you don't need a degree in something to draw conclusions. I don't need a degree to utilize common sense and deductive reasoning. I have heard people say that military aircraft, with their "powerful" engines, could create what would look like a rocket taking off...a trail of "smoke". Sorry, but that is blatantly false. A jet engine is a jet engine is a jet engine. Even with full afterburners, they do NOT create a trail of smoke. A trail of smoke would indicate a major malfunction. Cleanly burned fuel does NOT create a plume of smoke. Take a look at your gas stove. Where is the smoke? The only case in which a jet aircraft would create anything resembling a plume of smoke would be if it had "rocket assist", which some large military aircraft have.

We have had jet aircraft criss crossing our country for decades. If the debunkers were correct, we'd never see clear blue skies because they would be overcast by "contrails" spreading out. It has already been determined and admitted that there is "cloud seeding" going on. It's documented and admitted.

Personally, I will continue to take pictures and videos and be observant and draw my own conclusions. I don't need to be validated by those who argue that the "sky is red".




posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by coyotepoet
reply to post by Snoopy1978
 




I came to the US from major South American city 10 years ago (I'm in my early thirties now) and never have I seen the sky criss-crossed with the dramatic display one witnesses here. Furthermore, I travel to my native land at least twice per year and have not seen these type of "trails" over there. The length of time these criss-crossing patterns stay up in the sky is staggering. Also, I have been in many states here in the US and have seen these patterns in many types of weather ranging from mild to inclement. Having been to Mexico City and other latin countries have left my US "trail" experience unmatched. On a side note, the debunkers jumped on this thread at record speed. Must make HBGary proud for its "personas" software.





I have lived in a state in the Southwest that, when I moved here 10 years ago had 350 days of blue sky. There was rarely a cloud in the sky real or otherwise. Even 5 years ago the number of days there was a clear blue sky wasn't that far off from 350 days. Now, over the last year or so, hardly a day goes by without "contrails" that start out as long lines and spread out until they fill the sky, lasting all day long and being filled with more lines and "clouds" as soon as the old "clouds" start to dissipate. I have conducted informal interviews of every native to the state that I've run across, not bringing the topic of chemtrails up at all. Every single one of them has stated that there are more "clouds" in the sky than ever before. Now if this was someplace up north where the temperature and weather were different I could understand the atmospheric arguments. But where I live it is 75-85 degrees in the winter time with very low humidity. This has been the same conditions that the area has enjoyed in all the time that I have been living here. Air traffic hasn't increased that drastically in the last year or two. The temperature and atmospherics haven't changed that much in the past few years. And yet the thing that has changed is the increase in "persistent contrails" that fill the entire sky and stay there all day. This goes a long way to proving to myself that chemtrails exist.


Snoopy- Don't expect the debunkers to even address posts like these beyond them telling us what idiots we are and how we must be wrong because chemtrails don't exist. Regardless of the valid points made by the posts quoted above.


there are two things you need to have lots of lines in the sky. One of them is a whole bunch of airplanes. The second, is conditions that are favorable for consistent contrail formation. It's amazing how countries very close to the equator don't seem to be affected by the bad man spraying them. The bad man must only like cooler climates. Perhaps the bad man is really the bad woman and is a bitchy 55 year old going through the change. that would explain alot.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by Angelicdefender2012
 


Originally posted by Angelicdefender2012
Below is a link to some serious evidence of Chemtrails. And I can honestly tell you......I did not beleive it at first either, however, I've been paying very close attention to the skys.....and have done some serious digging to find out the truth! And I'm now a firm believer in Chemtrails!



www.buergerwelle.de...


Now this link have 2 letters from US Airline Mechanics and to the left of this are lab tests findings. So...you be the judge!

imageevent.com...

Outstanding post, plenty of evidence to follow up on here, I hope that some of the sceptics try to learn instead of just closing their minds.
edit on 17-3-2011 by crompton because: added quote

edit on 17-3-2011 by crompton because: wrong quote copied



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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to anyone who says chemtrails are not real... i would say to them this... You have no clue to what you are talking about... you assume you know everything because its what you were taught, you do not have enough of an open mind to see truth before your very eyes and thousands of people worldwide trying their very hardest to bring attention to a troubling reality in our sky, You may be a paid government agent, you have never been sprayed while you were standing outside, you should be seeing the difference between a cloud and a dissapearing jet contrail... so in midsummer when contrails always dissapear quickly you are telling us that low level commercial aircrafts leave behind huge line in the sky that eventually spread to form a haze over the entire sky... usually on perfectly blue mornings it starts. You really havent been paying attention... Im sure you skeptics are waiting for the day those in charge will come out on the news and admit the have been poisoning the world and all the worlds water supply... im sure you are... thats because you havent reviewed that facts... Start looking up more often ... you will see the truth



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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I'm not a debunker, but what I wanna point out is that there is picture evidence of long lingering contrails that date back to the 50's. If they've been spraying chemicals since the 50's and we haven't noticed anything too detrimental to us from it, then how bad could they really be?

If the idea is that it's an slow-killing accumulative poison that happens over such a long period of time that it's virtually undetectable, then we should be focusing on the chemicals and additives in our food, water, drugs and hygiene products as much or more-so than chemtrails.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by Jack Squat
 


i dont know where you have been but they have already detected this stuff in our water supplies statewide here in California... i am not saying they are poisoning us ... but the stuff they are spraying ... for sure not healthy... you dont have to go to go to college to figure that out.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by gloomyblue707
reply to post by Jack Squat
 


i dont know where you have been but they have already detected this stuff in our water supplies statewide here in California... i am not saying they are poisoning us ... but the stuff they are spraying ... for sure not healthy... you dont have to go to go to college to figure that out.



How did they determine that the stuff in the water was from airplanes?



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Very clever Network Dude:




there are two things you need to have lots of lines in the sky. One of them is a whole bunch of airplanes. The second, is conditions that are favorable for consistent contrail formation. It's amazing how countries very close to the equator don't seem to be affected by the bad man spraying them. The bad man must only like cooler climates. Perhaps the bad man is really the bad woman and is a bitchy 55 year old going through the change. that would explain alot.


Focusing on the first quote about South America and "cooler climates" and not saying anything about the American southwest in the second quote where the winter time temperatures are 75-80. That does not seem like a cooler climate to me.

Or this quote from General Lee talking about the same thing in another Southwestern US state with a warmer climate.



Living in AZ, we have (had) some of the driest, clearest skies in the nation, if not the world. We frequently have skies that are clear blue as far as the eye can see. If the skies were conductive to creating clouds, then they would have clouds. A little heat from a jet engine is not going to create enough moisture from out of "thin air" to create a blanket of clouds a mile or more across. The normal contrail is condensation. You get the same effect when you exhale outside when it's cold out. You can see your breath. It quickly dissipates, it doesn't transform into a layer of fog 10 feet wide.


It's interesting how you too only focus on the things you want that prove your point.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:35 AM
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i meant i do not think they are purposely poisoning us... obviously anything unnattural that causes harmful health effects could be considered poison... imo



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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In another incident, "a Cuban pilot reported seeing the release of unknown substances, in the form of a white or greyish mist on 10/21/96." (On 12/18/96, the first signs of thrips plague appeared in Matanzas province.)

The official US response was that the US pilot had, during his flight, seen a Cuban commercial airplane flying below, and as he was not certain of having been seen, "following caution and safety procedures," and with the purpose of securing a positive visual contact, the pilot used the "smoke generator" of his aircraft, in order to "indicate its location," adding that "the smoke vanished and no fluid was poured from the airplane." However, the US SAR aircraft, register N3093M is officially used by the State Department against drug trafficking, to destroy crops. The aircraft utilizes two sprinkling systems: one for the use of aerosols and liquid particles and another for dropping solid particles. The SAR aircraft is not known to carry a smoke generator.


Well this is interesting. Note how it does NOT mention what type of aircraft was being flown that the "Cuban pilot reported seeing the release of unknown substances".

Where does it say what type of plane it was? I see it mention that a certain plane is used by the State Department but that does not mean that was the plane being flown.. Why does it do this?



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:37 AM
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how else would it have gotten in every single water source statewide???



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by donatellanator
 


Thanks for your input. I do have some evidence of people putting toxic waste in the fuel.


I have evidence of people putting toxic waste all over this planet.... its called feul


JACKSQUAT- very good point, I don't think there is anything truly "safe" anymore... the big question is IF chemtrails happen to ever be proven real, then what?
are we going to attempt to purify or filter our air? or prosecute those involved? it all seems pointless
edit on 17-3-2011 by GummB because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 


Climate isn't only temperature bud =/

climate [ˈklaɪmɪt]
n
1. (Earth Sciences / Physical Geography) the long-term prevalent weather conditions of an area, determined by latitude, position relative to oceans or continents, altitude, etc.

It's interesting how you tend to make baseless arguments regarding climate by saying the temperature is the same. That would be like calling the climate in X the same as the climate as Y in the winter because they're both cold.
edit on 17-3-2011 by joshnichols189 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by gloomyblue707
to anyone who says chemtrails are not real... i would say to them this... You have no clue to what you are talking about... you assume you know everything because its what you were taught, you do not have enough of an open mind to see truth before your very eyes and thousands of people worldwide trying their very hardest to bring attention to a troubling reality in our sky


On the contrary, I feel like this works in the reverse way as well. Many people upon reaching the age of reason and uncovering some of the ugly truths about the world, become so jaded and cynical that any time they can connect the dots on potential conspiracies, it doesn't take much to convince them that it's true. Sometimes we believe because we want to believe, ya know?

And I'm not saying this is definitely the case with yourself, but from what I've noticed, with many or most Chemtrail believers, their reasoning typically doesn't hold water under major scrutiny.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by gloomyblue707
how else would it have gotten in every single water source statewide???


I have no idea. But if I wasn't savvy on what a chemtrail was and you asked me the same question, I'm not certain that my first guess would be chemicals sprayed from airplanes.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by SecretsUnfold
1. In the Netherlands they said on live tv that they used chemtrails to do certain "tests" on people and also to influence the weather. But, they said, they will never do it again and they are sorry... === Nobody is talking about it.


Excuse me, got any source for that? I think you got some countries mixed up!

Big influx of members registred today in this thread, making all kinds of bold statements. Very suspicious..



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by Jack Squat
 


like you i was too a skeptic... until last august when i was in a cemetary outside of modesto, ca in the town of hughson.... the cemetary there is in open field area near orchards..was there for about an hour on a day there was a heavy haze in the sky with a rainbow sheen to it... had clammy hands and felt bubble guts the entire day as did everyone in my house and my best friend who i was at the cemetary with... then about an hour into being there a strange misty cloud came lower and lower to the ground until it was literally raining down over the cemetary... i could feel extreme nausia like i havent felt since we were once sprayed going out to valley springs and a crop duster accidently sprayed us with the windows down... im sorry i dont know what kinda proof you need buddy... but getting poisoned and constant strange cloud patterns i have never witnessed or my parents have never witnessed or grandparents have never witnessed that live in this part of california since the 20's i think its sage to state on my behalf that i feel chemtrails are real... and the evidence is out there... now deciding the truth is up to you and how you want to deal with the facts... denial works too... lol



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by joshnichols189
 





Climate isn't only temperature bud =/


Nope. It's humidity too, bud, which is very low in AZ and the American Southwest (and far enough from the ocean to keep it that way) and by the debunkers arguments humidity is part of the requirement for "persistent contrails". If there is very low humidity and relatively high temperatures, I should not be seeing "persistent contrails" that fill the sky and stay there, but I do.
edit on 17-3-2011 by coyotepoet because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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LOL at anyone who took that seriously... "extreme T&C violation"??

it's sad that some don't have the comprehension to understand that i was blatantly drawing on an example of extremely reckless behaviour casuing harm to others. to draw a parrallel between the latter and the chemtrail situation.

if you can't understand this sorry, guess i'll have to keep my ideas simple from now on. I'm disappointed with this.
edit on 17-3-2011 by Ivann1217 because: wanted to be clear.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 

It's interesting that the "chemtrail" investigators don't seem to understand some very basic things about contrails.

It isn't "a little heat from a jet engine" that causes contrails to form. It is the water vapor in the exhaust which does it. The moisture "triggers" the formation of ice crystals.

You don't get the same effect when you exhale when it's cold out (unless it is very cold out). The cloud your breath forms is not the same as the ice crystals of which contrails (and cirrus clouds) are made of. It is a fog of tiny water droplets, like lower level clouds. But when it is very cold (and humid), you do get "contrails" at ground level.
Ground Level Contrails (with pictures)


edit on 3/17/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)



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