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Chemtrail Debunkers....

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posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 01:43 AM

Originally posted by Essan
reply to post by MathiasAndrew

So now you've moved on to proving that "chemtrails" are actually just contrails after all and that, as we've been saying all along, they have been extensively studied, in particular with regards their potential climatic impact.

It is difficult keeping up with you these days!

I would not be too concerned with wasting time on him. Obviously if he is posting long closed WW2 fields, as chemtrial proof, he has overplayed his prank a bit far.

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 01:45 AM

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

I have provided more evidence that they do exist than all of you have provided that they don't exist.

You've provided heaps of evidence that contrails exist, and heaps of evidence that people are studying geoengineering, but none at all that anything approximating your idea of chemtrails exists.

The preponderance of the evidence is the burden of proof here. Unless you can come up with valid evidence that they don't exist then you just are being another typical debunker who's all talk.

Why should I provide evidence that they don't exist? I am actually open to any evidence that they DO exist - I have said so several times. Eg here -

If anyone can show me credible evidence that chemtrails exist then I will believe they exist.

Your opinions are proof.

Yep - of a willingness to accept credible evidence that chemtrails exist, but not micky-mouse link-spam that shows a confused mind at work!
edit on 1-4-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 01:46 AM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:17 AM
United States Patent 3751913


The invention described herein was made in the performance of work under a NASA contract and is subject to the provisions of section 305 of the National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958, Public Law 85-568 (72 Stat. 435; 42 USC 2457).

This invention relates generally to a chemical release system and relates in particular to a system for releasing barium in the vapor phase so that it can be ionized by solar radiation and also be excited to emit resonance radiation in the visible range. The ionized luminous cloud of barium then becomes a visible indication of magnetic and electric characteristics in space and allows determination of these properties over relatively large areas of space at a given time compared to rocket borne or orbiting instruments. For example, a geomagnetic field line could be illuminated by the present invention from pole-to-pole.

Presently, barium release systems are used to create ion clouds in the upper atmosphere for the study of geophysical properties of the atmosphere. These known systems utilize a solid chemical system using a thermite mixture of barium and copper oxide as the heat-producing reaction and an excess of barium to be vaporized. This system is launched by a suitable rocket and, at a predetermined time, the ingredients are ignited and released from a canister through a burst diaphragm and nozzle. The resulting barium cloud gives a brilliant color that can be observed and studied from earth to give indications of wind currents and the like. This known system of barium release has proved effective but is inherently of low efficiency in producing barium vapor yielding, in practice, only from 2 to 4 percent of the total chemical weight when actually up to 48 percent is available. In addition, the barium-copper oxide mixture is a fire hazard when mixing and pressing into the canister and must be done under inert atmospheric conditions which proves time-consuming and costly in operation. Also, little, if any, ionization takes place in this known system due to the initial heat generating reaction.

It is therefore an object of the present invention to provide a new and novel barium release system for atmospheric and space studies.

Another object of the present invention is a system for releasing barium in the vapor phase so that it can be ionized by solar radiation and excited to emit resonance radiation in the visible range.

Another object of the present invention is a novel chemical mixture for releasing a good yield of free atoms and barium ions.

A further object of the present invention is a binary liquid hypergolic chemical release system in which barium is formed as a vapor at the time of release.

The foregoing and other objects are attained in one aspect of the present invention by providing a liquid fuel, in which barium salts are dissolved, and a high energy oxidizer which spontaneously ignites the fuel on contact. The barium release is accomplished by impinging fuel and oxidizer jets in an open-ended combuation chamber which expels the reaction product gases or plasma and which includes the desired barium neutral atoms (Ba° ) and barium ions (Ba + ) as individual species.

A more complete appreciation of the invention and many of the attendant advantages thereof will be readily apparent as the same becomes better understood by reference to the following detailed description when considered in connection with the accompanying drawings wherein:

FIG. 1 is a schematic representation of the fuel and oxidizer tanks connected to an open-ended combustion chamber in a launch rocket for release of barium according to the present invention; and

FIG. 2 is a plot of triangular coordinates which defines the barium nitrate- barium chloride-hydrazine mixtures of the present invention.

Aluminum soap demisting agent in jet fuel

Accession Number : ADD003645

Title : Aluminum Soap Demisting Agent in Jet Fuel.

Descriptive Note : Patent,


Personal Author(s) : Adicoff,Arnold

Report Date : 30 NOV 1976

Pagination or Media Count : 2

Abstract : Compositions of matter comprising a mixture of a jet fuel and an aluminum di-acid soap of a saturated carboxylic acid having from 8 to 20 carbon atoms are disclosed. The compositions of matter are useful as fuels for jet aircraft. (Author)

Descriptors : *Patents, *Aluminum soaps, *Fuel additives, *Jet engine fuels, Saturated hydrocarbons, Carboxylic acids, Chemical composition, Mixtures

Subject Categories : FUELS

Distribution Statement : APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE

edit on 1-4-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add link

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:57 AM

Aeriel Obscuration

The aircraft laying lingering X's and grids over Vancouver Island have been photo-identified as USAF KC-135 and KC-10 aerial refueling tankers. U.S. Air Force Weather Force Specialists intent on fulfilling an official USAF mission to Own The Weather refer to chemical cloud cover spread by high flying tankers as aerial obscuration. Outbreaks of acute upper respiratory and gastrointestinal illness fatigue, headaches, joint pain, dizziness, and nose bleeds have filled hospital emergency rooms across the U.S. and Canada following heavy spray days.

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 08:43 AM
reply to post by MathiasAndrew

How long is it that you say a "persistent contrail" can persist?

Contrail cirrus initially form behind cruising aircraft as line-shaped contrails and transform into cirrus-like clouds or cloud clusters in favourable meteorological conditions, occasionally covering large horizontal areas5, 6, 7. They have been tracked for up to 17 h in satellite observations6.

How's 17 hours sound?

Mat, you can cut & paste all sorts of crap, but you cannot post a scientific paper that supports your hysterics and desperation.

deny ignorance

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 08:52 AM

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
United States Patent 3751913

Mat, this is getting sad.

A while back you were contending that "chemtrals" were part of a scheme to change the climate.

Now, you've returned to random posting of barium, et c. hysterics that have nothing to do with what you claimed was your strongest suspicion.

You've come off the adhd meds again, haven't you?

These frantic, incoherent, un-elaborated posts add ZERO to the "chemtrail" liturgy, they merely point up an inability to formulate a rational explanation for a common phenomenon that befuddles the credulous.

Post more junk science speculation; I will post scientific analyses.

Why can't you formulate a single, coherent hypothesis?
I've asked a dozen times. The closest you've come is to say,"geoengineering;" followed by an admission (to a cohort) that you,"don't know why or what they are for."

Give us a single, well-formed hypothesis.

deny ignorance

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 08:54 AM

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by tommyjo

You are working awfully hard. It must be a thankless job.

And, you call people ignorant. tsk. tsk.

Make yourself useful. Help us to understand what is being "sprayed" There are too many of us. We know something is going on up there that is not normal. Either YOU realize that something is going on, or you don't. If you don't, you are just a roadblock to those of us that do.
If you think everything is normal, why don't you just go away? Why do you work so hard?

Let's talk about the possibilities, not the impossibilities.

Stewie, you're absolutely right MILLIONS of people worldwide it seems have become aware that the earth's skies and atmosphere are being intentionally modified, I see references to this now on just about every website and message board I go to, all the way from those dealing with health issues to those discussing economic ones and most everything in between.

The 'debunker crew' here at ATS has a job to do of trying to keep people from looking further into it and to try their best to downplay, ridicule, and marginalize anyone who keeps looking. You're right, it must be a thankless job lol, people just keep on asking questions amd looking further anyway, posting more and more links and sources, and becoming more and more informed as the 'deunkers' just become a useless noise in the backgound. Their MO is to keep singing the same old worn out refrain that no amount of evdidence will ever constitue 'proof' other than them being spoon fed by someone involved in these projects as if that has ever happened with any clandestine project.

No problem, we just go right around them and keep directing people to links and sources so that they can find out on their own, and though we toss a bone to the debunker crew every now and then just to keep the game alive, often we just pass them by as a minor distraction that really overall has little effect.

One does wonder though what drives people like this is it just a very close mind or is it a part of the barrage of people who have vested interests in trying to keep the programs under wraps for as long as possible. Obviously it could be just a closed mind, as I have seen people like this who weren't on any 'payroll' as hard as that is to imagine but too we know now there ARE people who work in a professional capacity whose job it is to lead people away from clandestine programs that are suppoosed to be kept out of the public eye as in this link. "Sockpuppets" just come with the territory, it's to be expected.
edit on 1-4-2011 by Tecumte because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 09:21 AM
Here's a link to a great health site that can help people who have been been made toxic by their environment and has some really good threads for research into chelation stategies and immune system boosting techniques to counteract the effects of heavy metal poisioning. It is surprising when reading through the many threads how many people have been diagosed professionally by blood tests of very high levels of barium and other metals in their bodies from 'unknown sources', and regardless of source, those that want to try and stay more healthy should perhaps think about ways to counteract the many sources of 'pollution' out there that are underminig health.

It's also eye opening when visiting a site like this and so many others that deal with health just how many people are aware of the intentional atmospheric engineering programs and how many are taking steps personally to minimize any damage that may be occuring from a health perspective. If one is concerned look for the many threads dealing with chelation to rid oneself of the heavy metal overload from such things as mercury, barium, and aluminum and pass these links and info along to any ones you care about. And stay healthy, there are alot of folks out there who make their livings off seeing you otherwise, creating the problem and then selling you the antidote, it's a muliti billion dollar racket that one doesn't want to be any part of.

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 10:01 AM
reply to post by Tecumte

Stewie, let me sum up tecumte and mat's theories:

"chemtrails" are cooling the global climate.

"chemtrails" are decimating the population.

Here's a couple of facts:

All AGW advocates and data sources insist the Earth continues to warm!

The Earth's population has increased during the "pogrom" these two fanatics call "chemtrails."

So, objective, repeatable facts do not support either of the supposed "reasons for chemtrails."

What do you think?

edit on 1-4-2011 by jdub297 because: [

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 10:21 AM

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
As I have said before, when you put all the evidence together then there is no doubt that these projects are happening on a large scale basis for studies and testing.
You must be joking if you want to keep suggesting that they're not.

Mat, this is getting pathetic.

Let's take your basic assumptions, and look at reality:

"Chemtrails are cooling the climate"
There is no definitive, objective evidence that the Earth has cooled as a result of the application of stratospheric SO2 aerosols. NOT ONE!
Dozens of studies have considered the feasibility of this approach to SRM/mitigation, but none has been shown to be effective.

Show us ONE, or you can persist in a delusion.

"Chemtrails" are to reduce the world's population."
After nearly 20 years of "chemtrail" propaganda, the Earth's population has increased by more than 1,000,000,000 people!
The methods you've described can NEVER achieve the stated goals of the "de-industrialists" like Holdren and Ehrlich.

Show us how this result is measured, observed and chronicled or persist in your pathetic delusions.

Mat, why are you so afraid? There are many who have studied ordinary contrails and found plenty to criticize! Why make things up, when there are plenty of present-day problems that affect us NOW, instead of some make-believe plot against people in general?

deny ignorance

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 10:25 AM
reply to post by jdub297

Do you acknowledge that after 911, when no planes flew for three days, that the earths temp was elevated one degree? Yes, you know this, or nope, you don't?

I think climate control is good. ELSE:

And what is your interest in this site. I believe in Chemtrails, Spiritual existance, UFO's, Stealth government aircrafts, and all kind of wierd and somewhat real activity. So why are you here... just to take up space.

PS: I am unemployed so I get to do this. Do you have a job? Get back to it.

Chemtrails in Colorado front range tomorrow! Go you Air National Guard! We have had a great Winter. Sorry New England.

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 10:30 AM

Originally posted by zipcode80013
reply to post by jdub297

Do you acknowledge that after 911, when no planes flew for three days, that the earths temp was elevated one degree? Yes, you know this, or nope, you don't?

He probably doesn't know that, because it didn't

However, initial studies did indicate that the dirunal range across North America increased by about 1 degree. It was this which prompted further research indicating that contrails add to global warming - with Pat Minnis etal going on to later suggest that all of the observed warming across the USA in recent decades could be attributable to contrails.

Contrails, Cirrus Trends & Climate

(a paper I'm sure most here are well aware of)

Edit: and in that respect, worth noting this very latest study:

Contrails warm the world more than aviation emissions

edit on 1-4-2011 by Essan because: add link

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 10:38 AM
reply to post by Essan

So we agree that global warming is occuring. I mean those giant northern sheets of ice now have clear passage for ships and those cute white bears are doing ok? So we have global warming.

OK, take a cloud and put it over a warm area... it stays warm. Take a clould and put it over a cool area... it stays cool. Take a cloud and put it over a damp area, and add something chemical. We have used Iodine and who knows what? Do you know?

Again, my brother was a B52 jet mechanic and he saw the turbine blades as early as the late 70's.

Baby, baby, baby... Where are the contrails today in my sky? Why will they be there tomorrow?

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 10:39 AM
reply to post by zipcode80013

Do you acknowledge that after 911, when no planes flew for three days, that the earths temp was elevated one degree? Yes, you know this, or nope, you don't?

NO! The hype after the attack was that there was a measurable difference.

It has since been shown to be "confirmation bias."

I've posted these studies before. Can you not find them, of=r did you just choose to ignore those that differ with your perception?

Pro: (Ted Turner's mouthpiece)


What's your point?


posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 10:43 AM
reply to post by jdub297

Again, you agree there is global warming?

Clouds can keep temperature in and block temperature change...

so, what's your point?

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 10:47 AM
reply to post by zipcode80013

And I think the point of this site was to not mess it up with clutter that is not progressive to us

yes, us,

who know that geo-engineering is taking place.

I hear there a a cool thread that predicts a big quake is predicted in Calf. yesterday. I would post there but my typewriter doesn't text into the yesterday.

Your studies, my studies. Fact is: thank god for controling global warming as best as we can. Sorry New England. We could use the rain here, though.
edit on 1-4-2011 by zipcode80013 because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 10:47 AM

Originally posted by zipcode80013
reply to post by Essan

So we agree that global warming is occuring.

Yes, and that aircraft contrails are contributing (albeit in a very small way).

Not sure what your point is other than agreeing that this rather spoils the idea that chemtrails/contrails are preventing global warming?

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 10:50 AM
reply to post by Essan

so when a comet hits us and there is this big cloud of dust... or Yellowstone erupts and fills the sky...

IT WILL get w a r m e r?

history, dude

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 10:58 AM
reply to post by MathiasAndrew

I just went outside. Several contrails. Why not every day?

Different elevations. Big one now up high. It's going to be 74-dgrees today, so maybe this is just normal.

But they do make clouds. Is that Geo-Engineering?

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