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Chemtrail Debunkers....

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posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by Tecumte
 


I think the use of aluminum and sulfur oxides are for SRM (solar radiation management)

I think the use of barium chloride and other forms of barium salts are used for studying the characteristics of solar and planetary interactions with the magnetosphere and ionosphere.




posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 
This has really gotten pathetic.

You cut and paste whatever pops up in your search, even though you are unable to understand what it says or depicts. Then, when someone who actually takes the time to read or watch and think explains it to you, you come back with either insults, more incoherent patchwork posts and a refusal to acknowledge your error.

Here's part of your last cherry-picked quote, which YOU highlighted (so it must have been important to you at the time):

Our generic platform is a jet-fighter-sized aircraft carrying a payload of 10 metric tons of finely divided aerosol, or an equivalent precursor mass, to be distributed evenly over a 2500 km flight path during an four-hour flight (while few aircraft are currently capable of sustained flight at stratospheric heights[/u, platform design issues are neglected at this point). The initial plume cross-section is taken to be 1 m2 , which is consistent with the dimensions of the platform. Note that, with these specifications, a total aerosol mass injection of 10 Tg of particles per year would call for one million flights, and would require several thousand aircraft operating continuously into the foreseeable future.


"Generic platform" refers to an aircraft capable of erforming the desired task without going into design specifics; the author notes there are not many choices in this regard.

Almost all contrails that people misrepresent as "chemtrails" are in the troposphere, created by commercial aircraft. Your "authority" discusses, exclusively, military applications in stratospheric flight paths.
They are not and never will be linked to presently-observed "chemtrails."

"Several thousand (non-existent) aircraft, operating continuously, for ONE MILLION flights per year!

Face it Mat, you've debunked yourself!

deny ignorance
jw



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


It says few aircraft are capable of flying at stratospheric heights.

IT DOES NOT say there are few aircraft capable of testing as lower heights

EDIT: Obviously you haven't read the document, you're the one cherry picking.

Debunked?
More like provided PROOF
edit on 30-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add text



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Essan
 
I'll tell you why. The CFR has declared that any techniques for geoengineering in the stratosphere fall under global governance laws.


The CFR is not a regulatory agency or governing body. Do you really think Brazil, China or India give a damn what the cFR thinks?
What "global governance laws" regarding geoengineering would those be?
There is no such thing; they exist in the misinformed minds of the gullible.
Cite the relevant laws, please.


Studies however are not regulated in the same way and are allowed to take place in localized areas such as the troposphere. Where they would be less likely to affect adjoining regions or countries.


Tha is unadulterated BS! No legitimate study of stratospheric phenomena can be done in the troposphere.

What "regulations" have you made up for this? How is the troposphere "localized?"

Mat, you've lost any hope of credibility and really are exhibiting fanatic desperation in your creation of mythical laws and exceptions to made-up regulations. Have you considered addhd meds?

There is no hope for your arguments, as they are now complete nonsense.


deny ignorance
jw
edit on 30-3-2011 by jdub297 because: remove hyperbole



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 04:34 PM
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Jdub.....DENY IGNORANCE is the behavior you seem to display towards yourself. You keep denying your own ignorance on these issues.

That is why I will your futile attempts to derail the info i supplied will be your own debunking of yourself.



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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Relationships of People Involved

www.scribd.com...




THE UNFOLDING

1975: US Patent 3,899,144: Powder contrail generation. Abstract: Light scattering pigmentpowder particles are dispensed from a jet mill deagglomerator as separate single particles toproduce a powder contrail having maximum visibility or radiation scattering ability for agiven weight material. (#1)
!

1977: US Patent RE29,142: Combustible compositions for generating aerosols,particularly suitable for cloud modification and weather control and aerosolization process.Abstract: A combustible composition for generating aerosols for the control andmodification of weather conditions consisting of a readily oxidizable substance selectedfrom the group consisting of aluminum, magnesium, alkali-metals and alkaline earthmetals. (#2)
!

1987: US Patent 4686605: Method and apparatus for altering a Region in the Earth’sAtmosphere, Ionosphere and /or Magnetosphere by Bernard Eastland.(patft.uspto.gov...) This was the first of three patents assigned to ARCO Power Technologies Inc. (APTI). APTI owned the "brains" behind HAARP and beganconstruction of facility in 1993. APTI was a subsidiary of Atlantic Richfield Company(ARCO) which was one of the biggest oil companies in the world and originally owned byRockefeller family. (#3)
!

1987: In 1987, BP bought Standard Oil of Ohio, owned by Rockefeller family. (#4)
!

1991: US Patent 5,003,186: Stratospheric Welsbach seeding for reduction of globalwarming. Assignee: Hughes Aircraft. (#5



1998: BP bought Amoco which was originally Standard Oil of Indiana. Standard Oil wasowned by the Rockefeller family who started the Trilateral Commission and is quoted assaying we must control "world population." Jay Rockefeller is cosponsor of the weather mitigation and research bill currently in the Senate (601). BP also acquired AmocoChemicals upon this acquisition. (#12)
!

2000: BP bought Atlantic Richfield Company (ARCO) which owned APTI. APTI was theoriginal owner of HAARP and patents. When BP bought Atlantic Richfield Company
(ARCO) they also acquired a subsidiary of ARCO: ARCO Aluminum Inc. which is thebiggest aluminum company in the world. Aluminum is one of the aerosols listed in USPatent RE29,142. Note: Monsanto has recently engineered aluminum-toxicity-resistantcrop seed. (#13)
!

BP is also one of the world’s largest petroleum and petrochemicals companies in its ownright. BP manufactures and markets a wide range of petrochemicals, intermediates,polymers, etc. Note: cases of people with Morgellan’s Disease are increasing at a rate of 1000 victims per day. In 2008 the CDC (Centers for Disease Control) began a study onMorgellon’s to investigate its causes and symptoms. With Morgellan’s, individuals exhibitunhealing sores containing fibers that burn at 1700 degrees F and do not melt. A privatestudy to determine the chemical and biological composition of these self-replicating fibershas shown that the fibers’ outer casing is made up of high density polyethylene fiber (HPDE). This material is used throughout the bio nanotechnology world as a compound toencapsulate a viral protein envelope with DNA, RNA, etc. (#14-16)
o

2000: Pavilion Technologies Inc. entered into a strategic alliance with BP AmocoChemicals, in which BP Amoco plans to license Pavilion's control and optimizationtechnology and deploy it across its polyethylene manufacturing facilities. (#17)



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Tecumte
 


I think the use of aluminum and sulfur oxides are for SRM (solar radiation management)

I think the use of barium chloride and other forms of barium salts are used for studying the characteristics of solar and planetary interactions with the magnetosphere and ionosphere.


You know Mathias, back in the early days when I first started learning about geoengineering and reading up on white paper proposals (Tellers ideas, another paper called "A Climate Change Manhatten Project, etc. etc ) I thought that what we were seeing might just be for the good of humanity and maybe WAS just geoengineering for the sake of "Global Warming". But as I read more and more, and personally watched and learned I began to doubt the MS Co2 caused Global Warming hypothesis and began wondering instead: Could these aerosol operations actually BE a an intentional cause rather than an attempted 'solution' to any warming. I started to observe what looked like (IMO) small scale locally/regionally controlled weather, causing regional weather disruptions which always seemed to be played up in the controlled press as attributed to the larger 'global warming' issue.

This whole scenario involves potentially billions of dollars looking for a 'problem' it potentially might allow all sorts of 'world body' gov. control to be used to supercede any remaining national sovereignty by those in power who no longer really believe in the concept of nation states, in order to 'fight' it. I think part of the scattering too involves military operations as well, from communications to all types of enhanced tracking and surveillance and weapons systems. I think to look to just one motive or program is short sighted (not saying you are, I'm speaking in general) most of the programs IMO attempt to accomplish as many objectives as possible at the same time.



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by Tecumte

But as I read more and more, and personally watched and learned I began to doubt the MS Co2 caused Global Warming hypothesis and began wondering instead: Could these aerosol operations actually BE a an intentional cause rather than an attempted 'solution' to any warming.


but according to you there is no evidence that there are any "aerosol operations" in the first place


And WTF is all this underlining coming from??!!


edit on 30-3-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by Tecumte

But as I read more and more, and personally watched and learned I began to doubt the MS Co2 caused Global Warming hypothesis and began wondering instead: Could these aerosol operations actually BE a an intentional cause rather than an attempted 'solution' to any warming.


but according to you there is no evidence that there are any "aerosol operations" in the first place


And WTF is all this underlining coming from??!!


edit on 30-3-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)


It depends upon what one considers evidence. But, yes, as I've said before, likely no 'proof' . Yet.



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by Tecumte

It depends upon what one considers evidence. But, yes, as I've said before, likely no 'proof' . Yet.


Nor has there been, since the 13 years ago that Will Thomas invented "Chemtrails", by claiming that there were all these persistent trails made at under 10,000 ft, and comparing that to normal persistent contrails made at airliner altitudes.

He claimed to have tons of photos of aircraft at low level making large trails, which of course he never produced. Then he switched the hoax over the persistent contrails that earlier he said were fine..



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by Tecumte
 


I agree with you that there are many other possible motives and speculative aspects that need to be considered. I've tried to limit speaking about some of my more unprovable theories due to the critical nature of the debunkers and their insulting and aggressive posting style.

I have considered many other possible scenarios and motives for what we have been seeing as well. I have been focusing on the Geoengineering aspect because there is the most documentation to support that theory.

I am fully aware that the government is capable of carrying out multiple agendas at the same time. While they publicly only state one intention or purpose for their actions.


Slightly off topic and extremely speculative on a very sensitive issue.....but I was thinking if the Japan nuclear facility was having some serious problems first and then the earthquake was actually started by HAARP to cover it up. So TPTB can protect their Nuclear agenda and try to look like the "good guys". Any man made Nuclear disasters would put quite a few road blocks in their way.

I know that is highly unlikely and very far out there......I don't actually believe that to be the case.

But, I do think that the whole thing going on with comet Elenin might be something to do with Nibiru. The whole solar system is acting up and getting warmer. Chemtrails might be trying to save us from a massive solar flare.

I have no idea what the real purpose or purposes are for chemtrails. I just want to governments involved to keep the people informed about the safety and health issues. It's not good to toy with Mother Nature you know.
 

EDIT: why is everything coming out underlined? Can we get a MOD to fix the problem? I previewed my post and it wasn't underlined. I made no attempts to underline anything.
edit on 30-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add text



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


First interesting thing is your post doesn't come out underlined as displayed on my monitor as it apparently does on yours, and I had wondered why someone made that comment before, now I know. Hmmmmm....

Yes 'geoengineering' does appear to be ongoing, and all of the 'debunker' type attempts to steer people away from looking into it appear to be failing. Everyday I see more and more and more people who are starting to notice our skies are being PURPOSELY modified (for WHATEVER reason) just like everything else in our environment, more vidoes coming out, and more astute comments regarding it on most every type of website out there from medical ones to economic ones and all things in between. Too, I understand your reluctance to 'cast pearls before swine' LOL but don't forget, the more people are encouraged to seek for themselves the more they will find despite the distractions and obfuscations.

One thing to perhaps keep in mind regarding the 'Nukler' (credit GWB LOL) issue is that almost ALL energy sources are being attacked from oil, to nuclear, to natural gas as well as the food supply, to the economic system, to 'security', you name it, I would simply say keep in mind how these things are all related in the bigger picture and there I think is where one will find the answer as to the nature of things. Keep your posts coming though and never be disuaded in trying to find answers, others may have their jobs to do, but don't let it keep you from doing yours for a second. It's all good, and it will all shake out in the end, I am confident.



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Tecumte
reply to post by MathiasAndrew

Yes 'geoengineering' does appear to be ongoing, and all of the 'debunker' type attempts to steer people away from looking into it appear to be failing.


who has ever tried to steer anyone away from looking into geo-enginering??



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 09:02 PM
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Well, if we stop quoting each other, maybe it will not have the underlines so much! (OOPS, I spoke too soon)

Oh and another interesting Will Thomas tidbit or too. For a while, he claimed to have lab samples of a contrail, but that he would release it once he was given money to reimburse his costs.

A year or two later, then he states there was not any testing that has been done, but would like to raise money to do a test.

He later accepted $7000 dollars to speak in Aspen about chemtrails, and left them feeling that they did not exactly get their moneys worth. Clifford Carnicom once called him out for spreading bad info, they are not really on that great of terms anymore.

And this is the guy that started this whole hoax with his "proof" of low level trails, as the origin of the chemtrail hoax. It always had a money angle to it.


edit on 30-3-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-3-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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-->The chemtrails section is found in the Centre Point Learning Science I Essential Interactions science book. Under 'Solutions for Global Warming', section 5.19 features a photo of a big multi-engine jet sporting a familiar orange/red paint scheme.
The caption reads: "Figure 1- Jet engines running on richer fuel would add particles to the atmosphere to create a sunscreen".

The logo on the plane says: "Particle Air".
-->

Funny when my children brought home their 7th grade science book and asked me about the picture of the commecial jetliner with the logo "Particle Air" written on the side spewing out carbon laced plumes to intentionally cloud the sky. The things they teach kids nowdays.....


truthinternational.blogspot.com...
edit on 30-3-2011 by Tecumte because: link added



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Tecumte
 


I think the use of aluminum and sulfur oxides are for SRM (solar radiation management)

I think the use of barium chloride and other forms of barium salts are used for studying the characteristics of solar and planetary interactions with the magnetosphere and ionosphere.


Here's something else to consider Mathias, perhaps as food for further thought and research:


-->March 11
The Short Scoop
WHAT CHEMTRAILS REALLY ARE - The Short Scoop
From Xiando

by Carolyn Williams Palit, www.noexoticwarfarezone.com, 2005

We are dealing with Star Wars. It involves the combination of chemtrails for creating an atmosphere that will support electromagnetic waves, ground-based, electromagnetic field oscillators called gyrotrons, and ionospheric heaters. Particulates make directed energy weapons work better. It has to do with "steady state" and particle density for plasma beam propagation.

They spray barium powders and let it photo-ionize from the ultraviolet light of the sun. Then, they make an aluminum-plasma generated by "zapping" the metal cations that are in the spray with either electromagnetics from HAARP, the gyrotron system on the ground [Ground Wave Emergency Network], or space-based lasers. The barium makes the aluminum-plasma more particulate dense. This means they can make a denser plasma than they normally could from just ionizing the atmosphere or the air.
-->

www.missouriskywatch.com...



edit on 30-3-2011 by Tecumte because: link added



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 09:40 PM
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Some of you will fall for any pseudoscience claptrap, as long as you think it supports your conspiracy. It could be complete gibberish, but as long as it contains the word "Barium" in there, you all go crazy about it



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by Tecumte
 


Yep - been around for ages - spraying stuff into the air is a well known and old PROPOSAL for solar radiation management - it's been around for at least34 years that we know of.

And this textbook still doesn't say it's happening - it says it would be an answer to warming.

Are you just Matty on another ID? this is the sort of stuff he does - punts up paper afetr paper that say that aersolos would be an answer to global warming and claiming that constitutes evidene that it is happening.



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 09:50 PM
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Ok now kids, put away your science books where we talked about intentional particulate spreading for modifying our atmosphere. Now does anyone have any pictures to share with the class?

www.youtube.com...
edit on 30-3-2011 by Tecumte because: link added



posted on Mar, 30 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by Tecumte
Ok now kids, put away your science books where we talked about intentional particulate spreading for modifying our atmosphere. Now does anyone have any pictures to share with the class?

www.youtube.com...
edit on 30-3-2011 by Tecumte because: link added


Aww, what would we have without youtube videos by other chemmies, used by chemmies as evidence.

Its too bad you are spreading misinformation that contrails must be short lived, because thats absolutely not true, no matter how many times you all say it.



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