Chemtrail Debunkers....

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posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


It shows NASA asking school kids to help with the study of persistent contrails. So obviously the current data and information about contrail science is incomplete.


So what, if the research continues and is contributed to by others? That can be said for almost anything worth studying.

As for your "Case Orange" video, you know that it has already been thoroughly proven to NOT be a scientific piece, but a self-aggrandizing propaganda piece for a group with outlandish, unproven theories.

As for the video itself, you know too that it is a serious T&C violation, that you flout from thread to thread,
to post video clips and links with no comment or explanation of why it is relevant to your topic.

As such, it is not worth even wasting time on. Since I pointed it out to you elsewhere, you know that I have seen it and know each of its flaws which were gone through in other threads.

Why have you not replied to my inquiries about the Battelle "toxic fuel" misrepresentations? They are in fact outright lies.

deny ignorance
jw
edit on 17-3-2011 by jdub297 because: sp




posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


Sorry.............. that video is just a foul mouthed rant set to the backdrop of hole punch clouds, and radars of perfectly normal aircraft contrails.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by badw0lf
 

Are you new here?
Chemtrails have been proven. Time and time again. I could bring you the links on ATS alone, but then, why should I?
Get up off your arse and do your own research, some of us are just trying to help you. Why? I don't have a clue.



Yes I am new! What is this all about? Please tell me, I'm scared of the sky sometimes..


Why do the clouds want to hurt me??

Please?



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 11:57 PM
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reply to post by itsawild1
 

THE SPRAYING ARE GLOBAL DIMMING PROJECTS NOW BEING RUN BY MOST FREE NATIONS OF THE WORLD.


1st, if "they" have been doing it for almost 20 years, and it is effective, why do the AGW faithful complain that the planet has gotten HOTTER during this same period?

Why don't they come out and spend "their" money on MORE planes and MORE cloudy days, when they are doing the very opposite - demanding fewer carbon-spewing modes of transport, and alternatives such as electric and wind instead of "chemtrails?" Why do most AGW advocates concede that THEY DO NOT KNOW what effect clouds have on global climate?

I have yet to see anyone actually come forward with an effective program for more "chemtrails;" the best they do is discuss the possible use of sulfur aerosols sometime in the future. And they are openly scared of doing it becasue of unintended consequences.

2nd, why are only "free nations" doing this? Wouldn't it be so much easier for the non-free nations who openly do not give a damn about their people or environment to take the lead and just "chemtrail" the crap out of their skies? What do they have to lose? They could "save the world" if AGW is the threat they say it is!

3rd, why don't "chemtrail" faithful have a consistent theory/explanation among them?

Is it barium/aliminum poison or is it sulfurous aerosols?

Is it to modify climate, mitigate global warming, or kill the most prosperous and productive society in the world?

Are these government aircraft, private aircraft, or a combination? And, what specific aircraft? If private, how do they keep this expense "off the books" from the shareholders and SEC? How do they escape MSM, passenger, EPA and FAA scrutiny? If government, where are they based, who flies them, and over which countries?

deny ignorance
jw
I



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:02 AM
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am posting in order to bookmark this thread
as i will be refering to it in my upcoming thread:



Contrails do not exist!!!



sorry OP no S&F, what with sloppy work and evidentiary mishaps and all that


is weed whacker on vacation? truly incredible that this has gone 5pgs and he hasn't shown up?


getting on topic i'm forced to point out that hole-punch clouds, cloudships, and other terms are the visible actions of Sylphs, so you can be certain there are chemtrails involved



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 

Thanks for the links in your post. Here's something I found when looking at some of the info.
www.asp.bnl.gov...


The cloud modeling and aerosol research elements of the newly combined Atmospheric System Research Program got off to an early start in a joint meeting held in Boulder Colorado, September 29 - October 2.. The meeting commenced on Tuesday, September 29, with the Cloud Modeling Working Group. The Aerosol Working Group and Atmospheric Science Program commenced on Wednesday, September 30, and extended through Friday, October 2


So what? What does this prove about "chemtrails?" More random cut and paste without any rational application to your premise.

Why wouldn't the Atmospheric Science Program want to study clouds generally?

The Department of Energy's Atmospheric Science Program has as its long-term goal developing comprehensive understanding of the atmospheric processes that control the transport, transformation, and fate of energy related trace chemicals and particulate matter. The current focus of the program is aerosol radiative forcing of climate: aerosol formation and evolution and aerosol properties that affect direct and indirect influences on climate and climate change.

www.asp.bnl.gov...

You do understand that CLOUDS ARE AEROSOLS, don't you?

Adding random, cut&paste, out of context, cherry-picked quotes only damages whatever argument "chemtrailers" are trying to make in support of their premise, whatever it is. It does not help. It adds to the criticism that "chemtrail" faithful have no substance behind their propositions, only incoherent displays.

While word salads are impressive; they never make sense.

deny ignorance
jw



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by jdub297
 


Because information should be reviewed first and the people who are viewing it can make up their own minds. It should not be deemed false or a hoax and tainted by the biased opinions of government shills and dis-info agents. Before anyone has a chance to review it for them self.


So, if ordinary people, who are not shills or dis-info agents, show something to be false or a hoax or tainted, why shouldn't they be allowed to participate?

What if they are the only ones who actually TOOK "a chance to review it for them self?" Why shouldn't they offer their opinions to those who do not want to or can't?

deny ignorance
jw



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
Yes the more interference and obvious attempts to derail this thread occur.


By "derail this thread" you mean prove that there is no such thing as chemtrails, they are just contrails....



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 01:51 AM
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No offense Matthias if this gets your thread wiped. I'm testing something and wonder what will happen. My suspicion is that they will just wipe this post.

Just to get everyone else up to speed, you created a different thread, unrelated to chemtrails per se, but related to your experience with the vehement debunking by suspected disinfo agents. You asked for others experiences in any topic. It was made clear by the posts that none of the other topics on ATS receive the same level of viscious and vehement dissent as do the chemtrail posts by the same group of people that jump on and belittle anybody who dares insinuate that chemtrails exist. You did not name names and there was nothing that appeared to break the rules. The thread was 404'd within a half hour.

There are plenty of posts and threads by people who have no "proof' for their point of view, are unscientific, go against accepted thoughts, or even seem on the surface to be crazy, but NONE of them receive the same kind of immediate squelching of discussion that would make professional hitmen proud as the chemtrail threads do.

It was apparently removed because "Creating threads about other members, and creating posts that do nothing more than insult other members, is not allowed." However, there was nothing insulting. No name calling or even calling out of particular members. You were merely pointing out your observations based on your experiences with previous posts.

Did I mention that the thread pointing this behavior out was 404'd within a half hour?
edit on 17-3-2011 by coyotepoet because: spelling
edit on 17-3-2011 by coyotepoet because: reasons



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 02:01 AM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 


Yes I agree. This topic is very sensitive here on ATS. I would almost qualify it as being taboo. The excuse I was given for the thread being erased was not accurate to the content of the thread.

EDIT: My intent with the deleted thread was to compare chemtrail debunkers with the debunkers of other topics. Based on peoples personal experiences with certain topics and debunkers.
edit on 17-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add text



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 02:07 AM
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Here's a good video on chentrail dis-info agents
www.youtube.com...



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 02:13 AM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 


There are plenty of posts and threads by people who have no "proof' for their point of view, are unscientific, go against accepted thoughts, or even seem on the surface to be crazy, but NONE of them receive the same kind of immediate squelching of discussion that would make professional hitmen proud as the chemtrail threads do.


I don't think it will get "wiped," but I think you've mistaken the form of a thread for the substance.

The differences are pretty clear, really.

Opening a thread only to complain about other members rather than to explore a controversy or conspiracy clearly doesn't belong here.

Opening a thread that presents only opinion, belief, speculation and anecdotes as "scientific," or as "proof" or "un-controverted" should be relegated to HOAX, SkunkWorks or 404, as they are founded upon a false representation.

There are many threads that continue to this day that are based, honestly, on statements of belief, et c. but do not then claim to be final or definitive.

You have to at least try to deliver what you promise. Here, we were promised "objective scientific research" and were delivered cut and paste disconnected compilations, misrepresented cherry-picked out-of-context quotes, and not much more.

Certain members are able to point out the flaws; telling them to stay out is futile.
When certain members point out the flaws, they get personal attacks or gibberish.
The OP usually gets what it deserves.

jw



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 02:18 AM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


The thread was posted in the Grey Area which about personal experiences. I asked people to give their personal experiences with debunkers on ATS. I wanted to compare their experiences with debunkers to my own. Because I believe that no other topic on ATS is attacked by debunkers more than chemtrails are. The thread was perfectly valid and politely worded. It was placed in the correct forum and made no insults other than my suspicion that some of the debunkers were dis-info agents.
edit on 17-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: edit text



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 02:23 AM
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My personal experience:

I have lived in a state in the Southwest that, when I moved here 10 years ago had 350 days of blue sky. There was rarely a cloud in the sky real or otherwise. Even 5 years ago the number of days there was a clear blue sky wasn't that far off from 350 days. Now, over the last year or so, hardly a day goes by without "contrails" that start out as long lines and spread out until they fill the sky, lasting all day long and being filled with more lines and "clouds" as soon as the old "clouds" start to dissipate. I have conducted informal interviews of every native to the state that I've run across, not bringing the topic of chemtrails up at all. Every single one of them has stated that there are more "clouds" in the sky than ever before. Now if this was someplace up north where the temperature and weather were different I could understand the atmospheric arguments. But where I live it is 75-85 degrees in the winter time with very low humidity. This has been the same conditions that the area has enjoyed in all the time that I have been living here. Air traffic hasn't increased that drastically in the last year or two. The temperature and atmospherics haven't changed that much in the past few years. And yet the thing that has changed is the increase in "persistent contrails" that fill the entire sky and stay there all day. This goes a long way to proving to myself that chemtrails exist.
edit on 17-3-2011 by coyotepoet because: spelling



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 02:23 AM
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Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by coyotepoet
 


There are plenty of posts and threads by people who have no "proof' for their point of view, are unscientific, go against accepted thoughts, or even seem on the surface to be crazy, but NONE of them receive the same kind of immediate squelching of discussion that would make professional hitmen proud as the chemtrail threads do.


I don't think it will get "wiped," but I think you've mistaken the form of a thread for the substance.

The differences are pretty clear, really.

Opening a thread only to complain about other members rather than to explore a controversy or conspiracy clearly doesn't belong here.

Opening a thread that presents only opinion, belief, speculation and anecdotes as "scientific," or as "proof" or "un-controverted" should be relegated to HOAX, SkunkWorks or 404, as they are founded upon a false representation.

There are many threads that continue to this day that are based, honestly, on statements of belief, et c. but do not then claim to be final or definitive.

You have to at least try to deliver what you promise. Here, we were promised "objective scientific research" and were delivered cut and paste disconnected compilations, misrepresented cherry-picked out-of-context quotes, and not much more.

Certain members are able to point out the flaws; telling them to stay out is futile.
When certain members point out the flaws, they get personal attacks or gibberish.
The OP usually gets what it deserves.

jw


I posted an entire report based on scientific evidence. You obviously didn't read it before making your ignorant comments and unsubstantiated claims about a thread you never even saw. Just like you're making claims about evidence you never even looked at here in this thread.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by Argyll
 

Uh, oh yes. I know how these chemtrail threads are constantly spammed, and observations made by members don't mean #, and science doesn't mean anything unless it is YOUR science and YOUR scientists that are being quoted.
Duh.

This post just about sums it up perfectly. I agree 100%. All these debunkers are self-proclaimed experts of weather, science, aviation and politics. I have yet to see any of the debunkers show their credtials or back up their statements. They just post links to other websites and cut and paste job. Spamming off topic posts with as many smiley's as they can squeeze into their two and three line posts which they space out and fill in by quoting previous posts by other members. Yet miraculously they all get the exact same number of stars. 3 or 4 for a period of time until the next shift of debunkers takes over and they get a few more little blue stars.
edit on 17-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: edit text



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 04:02 AM
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Originally posted by Argyll

Originally posted by gmac10001
reply to post by donatellanator
 


no proof lol what are you 10?? go outside and watch a contrail and then a chemtrail and see the difference i sorry but vapor does not stay in the air for hours, drop down about 10 thousand feet and spread out like a blanket, you really need to conduct some rational thought. for your own sake.


Yes it does.....you just haven't done your research.
I've seen a lot of contrails in my day...but I've never seen one last for more than an hour or drop down 10,000 feet and spread out like a blanket. I live in a very rural area, so I doubt they spray chemtrails out here, but I do see contrails some times. I don't need any "research" to tell me how a contrail should act, I see it all the time. And if what gmac says actually happens, then chemtrails are real. I've never actually seen it happen, so I haven't concluded anything.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 04:15 AM
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David Keith PDF on Geo engineering
people.ucalgary.ca...

Other papers by David Keith- a leading geo engineering researcher
people.ucalgary.ca...
What in the World are They Spraying Part 1 of 7

A good video on chemtrail dis-info agents
www.youtube.com...



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 04:28 AM
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David Keith on aerosol geo engineering

people.ucalgary.ca...


Box 3.1.1.1 Lofting Aerosol Material to the Stratosphere
A number of methods of lofting aerosol or aerosol precursor materials to stratospheric altitudes can be considered. Here (and also in Appendix I), we review a set of the most prominent alternatives—aircraft, guns, rockets, suspended chimneys, and balloons. The feasibility of each depends upon the material being lofted and the means of dispersion, and are not independent of the issues discussed in Box 2.3.1.2 and Box 3.1.1.2. We caution that our preliminary evaluations are no substitute for proper engineering design studies of these options.

The most important consideration—and the largest current source of uncertainty—affecting the choice of lofting mechanism is the height to which materials must be lofted. Significant fundamental questions regarding aerosol transport in the stratosphere need to be addressed before any minimal lofting height for stratospheric dispersal could be confidently established. The presence of equatorial stratospheric upwelling suggests that altitudes of 20 km may be sufficient—any material injected there or higher would be transported vertically by the equatorial upwelling and then distributed throughout the stratosphere. This suggests that existing aircraft may well be suitable and sufficient for the purpose.
edit on 17-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: edit text



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 04:54 AM
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Hi guys
Matthew already knows what im going to say but after reading all his evidence and watching the videos a few questions still stick in my mind. I started a post on this but still never got an answer. Ok forget if they exist or not and assume they do what is the conspiracy?

We now live longer and i know of no one with any condition linked to chemtrails. After 15 years or whatever of constant spraying why are we not all seriously ill and all the food and water supply contaminated?

Why would a pilot fly a plane that has the potential of killing millions of people including his family without question?

If you believe its to hide something fine but why are these blankets only in certain areas ( always near airports it seems) do they think the people of burnley in lancashire dont need nibru/planetx hidden from them?

15 years is a long time for no effects to be seen dont you agree?

So if they are real then all i can say is they dont work or dont really harm us so why bother about them surely japan is more worrying at the present time.

On a side note peoples attitudes need to change a little manners cost nothing!

Helgas





 
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