Chemtrail Debunkers....

reply to post by gloomyblue707


Not at all.....this is ATS......everyone gets to join in..........but the discussion is contrails/chemtrails......I just don't see what you are bringing to the discussion other than calling people "dicks" if they don't believe someone else's theory

reply to post by Argyll


you should re read half of what i wrote here on this thread if you are wondering that... i came to this thread to debate with other chemtrail believers about chemtrails and the reality of ... share experiences or new info ...not asked tons of questions by people like you... or thrown tons of info why they cannot be real... its purpose from then on about the 5 or 6 members i seen on this thread is to completely throw off discussion of real chemtrails to engage members why they arent real or to ask for proof... lol so dont be surprised that i cringe as i type this to you.

reply to post by gloomyblue707


As has been said already - ATS is not a private board - anyone can post to any thread - so thinking you weer goingto have a nice private fireside chat was always unrealistic.

If you want tgo do so there's plenty of chemmie boards and YT channels where no dissenting voices are allowed - go pat yourselves on the backs in private at any one of them.

Originally posted by gloomyblue707
reply to post by Argyll

 

you should re read half of what i wrote here on this thread if you are wondering that... i came to this thread to debate with other chemtrail believers about chemtrails and the reality of ... share experiences or new info ...not asked tons of questions by people like you... or thrown tons of info why they cannot be real... its purpose from then on about the 5 or 6 members i seen on this thread is to completely throw off discussion of real chemtrails to engage members why they arent real or to ask for proof... lol so dont be surprised that i cringe as i type this to you.

Well I see you have only been a member here for a few days.......you need to understand that any subject here, in whatever forum, is going to be open to debate, and yes, you will get tons of info thrown at you!....that's a good thing surely?

"real" chemtrails have been explained here................they are called contrails.....if you choose not to believe that, then that is fine.........but that doesn't make the people that don't agree with you "dicks" does it?

**ATTENTION**

Please remain on topic.

If you insist on attacking each other and posting off topic, you will find yourselves post banned for at least 72 hours.

Thank You.

~Keeper
ATS Staff

Hello all I am back and thanks ATS for finally restoring my posting privileges. I would like to present a video to you all that is a little bit off topic. But in the spirit of things that must be seen to be believed. Similar to chemtrails this video demonstrates that many things we think are not possible actually are possible if we just open our mind to the World of the unknown. I promise I will tie this in later but for now please enjoy this video. It was something I really enjoyed watching and I hope you all will enjoy it too. In the spirit of things to come I would now like to introduce to you all the Elephant in the room. Please stand by......



I hope you all enjoyed watching that video. Now back to chemtrails. Since I have been in dispose of for the past 3 days I have a bit of catching up to do. I would first like to respond to the many comments that have been made that I have presented evidence as "proof" that chemtrails exist. That is not entirely a correct statement. No single piece of evidence I have presented, when taken by itself, is meant to be "proof" that chemtrails exist. But as I have stated prior, I am presenting evidence in a pre-trial sense of the matter. The sum total of all the evidence when presented together is what, in my opinion, is "proof" by a preponderance of the evidence. Please keep in mind that I have presented evidence, as well as many other people have also, in other threads besides this one. That being taken into account. I think it is a fair statement to say that chemtrails do exist. They exist in many different ways. The purpose is not clear and they are obviously still in dispute. That is all I have to say for now. I shall return when I have reviewed the postings made here more thoroughly. In the mean time I suggest everyone interested should listen to the ATS live podcast replay on chemtrails. Here is the link to the thread that contains the interview with "What in the World are they spraying" producer Michael J Murphy. The interview with Murphy begins in the second hour at approximately 1:01:40 enjoy. I would love to hear everyones comments on this interview. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew In the mean time I suggest everyone interested should listen to the ATS live podcast replay on chemtrails. Here is the link to the thread that contains the interview with "What in the World are they spraying" producer Michael J Murphy. The interview with Murphy begins in the second hour at approximately 1:01:40 enjoy. I would love to hear everyones comments on this interview. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Absolutely amazing video.

As the member responsible for bringing the good doctor Lenny Thyme and Mr. Murphy to ATS I am saddened by the actions that happened.

I am also saddened that ATS chose to close my thread where were were getting answers from a real life chemist. We are are supposed to deny ignorance but instead we shut off a source of knowledge.

There has been a lot worse bickering than was going on in that thread (also derailed by "debunkers"). The info in it is still availble here: link.

Absolutely amazing video.

As the member responsible for bringing the good doctor Lenny Thyme and Mr. Murphy to ATS I am saddened by the actions that happened.

I am also saddened that ATS chose to close my thread where were were getting answers from a real life chemist. We are are supposed to deny ignorance but instead we shut off a source of knowledge.

There has been a lot worse bickering than was going on in that thread (also derailed by "debunkers"). The info in it is still availble here: link.

edit on 21-3-2011 by pianopraze because: (no reason given)

Hi, I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Hopefully that will settle down the tone of this thread. I understand that this is a highly contested and at times a very heated debate of what I consider to be a very important issue concerning everyone on this planet. But in regards to all persons involved in this debate, I would hope that we can remain calm and respectful of one another.

I am also saddened and disappointed to hear that your thread with the good Dr. Lenny Thyme was closed. I have only just recently been made aware of some of the facts in regards to this issue . Due to your efforts in bringing his expertise and knowledge to ATS and I thank you for your excellent contributions and efforts. Would you please , carefully as to not offend anyone, expand on the circumstances under which your thread was removed. I would also love to hear more about your connection and involvement with bringing those two extinguished gentlemen to the ATS forum and ATS live broadcast. Once again great job. S&F

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew

Hi, I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Hopefully that will settle down the tone of this thread. I understand that this is a highly contested and at times a very heated debate of what I consider to be a very important issue concerning everyone on this planet. But in regards to all persons involved in this debate, I would hope that we can remain calm and respectful of one another.

I am also saddened and disappointed to hear that your thread with the good Dr. Lenny Thyme was closed. I have only just recently been made aware of some of the facts in regards to this issue . Due to your efforts in bringing his expertise and knowledge to ATS and I thank you for your excellent contributions and efforts. Would you please , carefully as to not offend anyone, expand on the circumstances under which your thread was removed. I would also love to hear more about your connection and involvement with bringing those two extinguished gentlemen to the ATS forum and ATS live broadcast. Once again great job. S&F

I was not informed why. I saw nothing of major T&C. Only a few posts have been deleted and I've seen much, much worse in other threads still open... so it remains a mystery to me as to why it was closed. All I have are suspicions. Circumstantial evidence does not equal proof. I will not elaborate further because any criticism here seems to be met harshly. It bugs me I can not freely voice opinions on this subject. I do love ATS and respect the moderators and owners and the wonderful job they do. I do disagree with some things I've seen. I do see T&C violations all the time that are not addressed even when flagged which are one line, off topic, and hostile/mocking. While those with another view are removed for far, far less. This favoritism is distressing.

I set out to debunk the video at first. I thought chemtrails were a hoax, but I was invited by a friend to look at the subject so I went trying to have an open mind. I invited phage and weedwacker to help debunk the video in the original thread. The more I studied the more it seemed as if there was something to this. I emailed Dr. Thyme to get answers and he agreed to come on ATS and answer questions. He asked for a new thread so I started the thread link above.

I also emailed Mr. Murphy who said he only would come on radio. So I petitioned the ats live radio crew and they agreed to have them on. I really appreciated their responsiveness. I think this was wonderful. They seemed to have a fair open debate but Mr. Murphy lost his temper, was repeatedly warned, them removed from the broadcast. Dr. Thyme was invited back. At that point I had some personal things to attend to and stopped listening. I came back to my computer later and heard phage on and turned off the computer and continued with the personal things I was doing. I was a little upset Dr. Thyme or a counter balancing opinion was not allowed on with phage from what I read in the ats live thread. You have linked to it above.

This whole affair has somewhat soured me on ATS. I saw a friend, earlier, was removed from ats. The only things that are left show him questioning ATS motives for allowing certain things. I have to wonder about the same things. He was doing it hotly, I do it here calmly. It troubles me that I wonder if my questioning, as politely and circumspectly as I am posting this, will lead to this posts removal.

So I now have a sour taste in my mouth over this whole affair. I am left questioning if there's not something to geoengineering because of the response here. The evidence is inconclusive either way to me right now but I'm leaning towards real because of THE WAY the subject is being "debunked"...

reply to post by pianopraze

I do love ATS and respect the moderators and owners and the wonderful job they do. I do disagree with some things I've seen. I do see T&C violations all the time that are not addressed even when flagged which are one line, off topic, and hostile/mocking. While those with another view are removed for far, far less. This favoritism is distressing.

I agree with you and to a slight degree I feel this has happened to me in a few cases. I do not wish to elaborate any further either as my posting privileges have just recently been restored today. I will say however that it is good to see that even though your thread was closed for the time being. It has remained in the "General Conspiracies" forum and is still available for members to read. Hopefully we can all be a bit more positive towards each other when discussing this highly controversial topic in the future.

I want to give notice to all members who post in this thread in the future. Any disrespectful, insulting, belittling or mocking remarks will be reported the mods. It will be their decision as to whether the post should remain still. But if comments are made that I feel do not contribute in any positive way to this discussion and are filled with personal attacks, moral judgments of another persons character or are inflammatory in nature. I will not hesitate to quote those remarks and remind you of the purpose for which we are here. I would once again like to ask that everyone who posts here to please be respectful of the comments made by other members even if you do not agree. Even if you think it's drivel or think that the person is unintelligent or any other opinion you might have about them. Your comments should still be polite and you should respectfully disagree while pointing out why it is you disagree.
Thank you

Originally posted by General.Lee
As far as definitive "proof", the only real "proof" we can get is video of somebody adding stuff to fuel and signing an affidavit stating that they are adding chemicals to the fuel to make chemtrails. And of course, if it's on Youtube, nobody will believe it because its, well, on Youtube. In other words, there will never be "good enough" proof for some people. And they believe our lack of proof in fact "proves" their position, that there aren't chemtrails.

Sometimes you can use deductive reasoning to reach a reasonable conclusion. My reasoning tells me that if two high altitude aircraft fly through clear blue skys, and one leaves a "normal" contrail, disappearing after a mile or two and another leaves a chemtrail, continuing as far as the eye can see, then spreading out like a blanket to create an overcast, there is clearly a significant difference in what those two aircraft are putting into the air.

The fact is, sometimes in life, quite frequently in fact, you don't need a degree in something to draw conclusions. I don't need a degree to utilize common sense and deductive reasoning.


Personally, I will continue to take pictures and videos and be observant and draw my own conclusions. I don't need to be validated by those who argue that the "sky is red".

Here are a few quotes that IMO might apply to the situation at hand concerning the contested validity of what constitutes the argument of "contrail or chemtrail".....

“The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.”

“Political language. . . is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.”

“In our age there is no such thing as 'keeping out of politics.' All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia.”

For the uninitiated, the above quotes were written by George Orwell.

“When it comes to the future, there are three kinds of people: those who let it happen, those who make it happen, and those who wonder what happened.” - John M. Richardson, Jr.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act” - George Orwell

Yes, I'd venture to say we are now truly living in an Orwellian world. But my sky is not red or blue.....it's usually a hazy whitish/gray that obliterates most of the sunshine due to chemtrails. My eyes do not deceive me!

reply to post by Toots


Thank you for your comments. I enjoyed reading the quotes you left.

I wanted to share this picture with everyone. It's a picture I got from the NASA / TARFOX website.
geo.arc.nasa.gov...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/faefc3d8f3bc.jpg[/atsimg]

geo.arc.nasa.gov...

An Overview of the Tropospheric Aerosol Radiative Forcing Observational Experiment (TARFOX)
Abstract. Aerosol effects on atmospheric radiation are a leading source of uncertainty in predicting future climate. TARFOX was designed to reduce this uncertainty by measuring and analyzing aerosol properties and effects in the US eastern seaboard, where one of the world's major plumes of industrial haze moves from the continent over the Atlantic Ocean.
The TARFOX Intensive Field Campaign was conducted July 10-31, 1996. It included coordinated measurements from four satellites (GOES-8, NOAA-14, ERS-2, LANDSAT), four aircraft (ER-2, C-130, C-131A, and a modified Cessna), land sites, and ships. A variety of aerosol conditions was sampled, ranging from relatively clean behind frontal passages to moderately polluted with aerosol optical depths exceeding 0.5 at mid-visible wavelengths. Gradients of aerosol optical thickness were sampled to aid in isolating aerosol effects from other radiative effects and to more tightly constrain closure tests, including those of satellite retrievals.
Early results from TARFOX include demonstration of the unexpected importance of carbonaceous compounds and water condensed on aerosol in the US mid-Atlantic haze plume, chemical apportionment of the aerosol optical depth, measurements of the downward component of aerosol radiative forcing, and agreement between forcing measurements and calculations. A wide variety of closure studies is currently in progress.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

I'm not sure how you are connecting this information to chemtrails. If you please, could you "connect some of the dots" a little for us so we don't need to guess (and perhaps guess wrong) at the connection you are trying to make. That would be helpful -- Thanks.

As for TARFOX itself, TARFOX (at least according to the info you provided) seems to be interested in measuring aerosol properties from industrial air pollution. I suppose that normal air travel can help contribute to pollution (and for that matter, automobile exhaust), but I would think most of what they are measuring is industrial haze because they are probably the largest producers of aerosol radiation.

...but still -- please help me understand what you say is TARFOX's connection to chemtrails.

reply to post by jdub297


quote:You already have samples.
Do you need the names of 10 independent reference labs (you should use more than one, for comparison and control)? A simple water analysis for particulates and adulterants will cost less than $100, especially if you promise to have them do ALL your testing and publish their names along with your results.
this is not an answer to the comment i posted as although i have water samples from rain but they are not samples from the source [contrail's/chemtrail's] you should really try to understand what i write before you reply.
Quote: As for what they are spraying again I can not say factually ... because I lack the means to get a sample from the source.
quote:If these are government planes, crews, et c., why would there be any cost difference? Or any cost at all? If, as some contend, they've done it before, why would they need to adapt anything?
How can you say that the cost is apparent after all would these be flight's that wouldn't need to be used if the project was not undertaken that's like saying every time we go to war that it doesn't cost anything because we already had the planes ,tank's,men and equipment.
When I brought forward that chemical where sprayed in the UK I was answered that yes it was fact but the test was only done with one aircraft so yes they would have to adapt more in order to implement this project so that has been debunked by one of your own
quote:Why would you have to pay them more? If the goal is to murder civilians, then why not just murder the crew, too?
I have never stated anywhere that this is a plan to kill anybody the side effects from the spraying may not really help your heath but like new drugs tests you can't really know what the side effects are until after the human trials are over.
At the moment I am having alot of trouble getting to sleep so last night I used that time to think over the question you put to me as to why I think they are doing it and I can think of only 2 reasons why that have any real merit.
1. to reduce climate change after all if sea levels where to rise by 7 meters our living space would be greatly reduced.
2.they are trying to hide something going on in space that is only visible during the day.
the danger to people in general I have already spoke about and we can put these down to side effects.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I will watch the film again just to see if they do look like tyre tracks as you say but I'm sure that they are a cartoon representation of persistent contrail's[chemtrail's] in the sky and if like you say they are tyre tracks why on earth would you put them in the sky also the pattern in which they had been put in was a lattice like pattern which I have seen in the sky of late many times my point is that alot of cartoon's have hidden messages that the brain of kids pick's up.It work's the same way as product placement in films you may not notice it but your brain will pick it up.
I would also like to point out that another member here saying about smoking in a cartoon and the cartoon in question was produced before the real dangers of smoking where known and it was a common practice to hook them while there young.
My concern here is that it shouldn't be there because why put it in a film for kids unless you where trying to make them think it is normal to see that pattern in the sky.
There would be no need to put it in the film if these trail's where normal.

Originally posted by djcarlosa
...At the moment I am having alot of trouble getting to sleep so last night I used that time to think over the question you put to me as to why I think they are doing it and I can think of only 2 reasons why that have any real merit.

1. to reduce climate change after all if sea levels where to rise by 7 meters our living space would be greatly reduced.

I'm not sure if creating artificial cloud cover would be a good or bad thing in an attempt to reduce the effects of global warming, if the Greenhouse Effect is to be considered. It could be possible for increased aerosol/particulate cloud cover to act as a blanket that traps in the Earth's heat -- i.e., increased cloud cover could potentially increase global temperatures.

I'm not saying that contrails that spread into cloud is not a potential issue, nor am I saying that jet airliners don't create potentially harmful pollution. Howver, I'm saying that these are simply effects of normal air traffic, just like pollution from automobile exhausts is just an effect of normal driving -- both may potentially be causing harm, but neither is being done as part of a concerted and systematic secret plan.

2. they are trying to hide something going on in space that is only visible during the day.
the danger to people in general I have already spoke about and we can put these down to side effects.

Considering that most places on Earth still have their share of plenty of crystal clear days, I'm not sure if they are doing a very good job of obscuring our view of space.


I understand that the two reasons you listed here are specifically meant to answering the question "why do you think they are spraying". However, to me the bigger question that needs to be answered first is "are they spraying at all".

So, a third option to consider (which is what most chemtrail skeptics are saying) is that the cloud cover caused by spreading trails can be totally attributed to normal contrails coming from normal high-altitude flight, the vast majority of which is commercial air traffic.

You seem to be working under the assumption that spraying is in fact happening, and hence trying to figure out the reason for spraying. Most chemtrail skeptics see no evidence of chemtrails actively being sprayed at all, so of course they have no reason to answer "why/what are they spraying?" That would be like you asking me to answer the question "why do unicorns have horns?" You would need to first show me that unicorns are real, and only then would I attempt to answer why they have horns.