So You Seek Enlightenment ??

reply to post by IntastellaBurst


I liked the reference to playing god mode in a game and wanting to play the other to have a challenge and have that experience be different. I have just recently found that the most random of experiences are the most fun. The last sentence is sort of off topic, but great thread S&F.

I had an experience where my 'ego' fell of me like an old jacket, the only thing that remained was...unexplainable.
It was scaring because I wasn't prepared for it, it was very intense.
The way it changed me is that I don't want things anymore, before that I was always looking to the future, now I live more in the present.
It's not easy to live this way in this western society. People just don't get it why I don't desire anything (like a new car, a big house...a promotion) anymore.
If I get that new car I will enjoy it, but it will not make me unhappy if I can't get it.
Bhudda said that desire is the cause of all (inner) pain. He also said it's ok to enjoy things.
Best example I can think of is a child crying for a toy it wants, then getting angry when he can't have it.

Here are some quotes you might enjoy. They used to annoy me because they didn't seem to make sense. Now they do.

“Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water.”

“If you have no feelings about worldly things, they are all Buddhism; if you have feelings about Buddhism, it is a worldly thing”

If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are

The living meaning of Zen is beyond all notions. To realize it in a phrase is completely contrary to the subtle essence; we cannot avoid using words as expedients, though, but this has limitations. Needless to say, of course, random talk is useless. Nonetheless, the matter is not one-sided, so we temporarily set forth a path in the way of teaching, to deal with people.

When you pass through, no one can pin you down, no one can call you back....Zen Quotes by Ying-An.

People in the world cannot identify their own mind. They believe that what they see, or hear, or feel, or know, is mind. They are blocked, and so cannot see the brilliant spirit of their original mind....Huang-po.

Why are you so sure you have it figured out? Remember before you were so called "awake" . And before you even contemplated there was another reality then this one so to speak? What if the round you are on now is like that just a higher form of illusion or with a little less illusion so to speak, and there is still yet another higher realm, and one beyond that and so on until you get to the true reality? Perhaps we must peel the entire onion instead of just stopping at the first or second layer... Just a thought..

Originally posted by hawkiye
Why are you so sure you have it figured out? Remember before you were so called "awake" . And before you even contemplated there was another reality then this one so to speak? What if the round you are on now is like that just a higher form of illusion or with a little less illusion so to speak, and there is still yet another higher realm, and one beyond that and so on until you get to the true reality? Perhaps we must peel the entire onion instead of just stopping at the first or second layer... Just a thought..

I KNOW I dont have it all figured out..... which is the beautiful thing. As vast and complex as the universe exists in my little sphere, .... I know its so much more complex.

Which is why I find it important to not hold onto any beleif,..... when I answer a question.. or think of an idea, .. I try not to work from any previous experience or memory..... I go inside myself and find the truth, as it exists here and now. for me anyway.

reply to post by Morrel


Can you tell me how long ago this happened? When did your ego fall off? I am very interested as i have had a similar experience. I know it is scary when it happens, and takes a long time to come to terms with it, to integrate it. Tell me more.

reply to post by IntastellaBurst

I go inside myself and find the truth, as it exists here and now. for me anyway.

Ah now we are talking my friend This is all any of is can do.

I assume when you say not hold on to any beliefs you mean illusions. Rather we should hold on to those rare moments of "knowing" that we may build on truth and eventually peel back the next layer so to speak.

reply to post by IntastellaBurst

one of the most evil OP speeches I have heard
in a long while.

So with enlightenment we all become Gods.

or maybe you have forgotten this lil verse

"Thou shalt have no other Gods before me"
KJV

Or maybe that was your intent
to draw Christians away from their
belief in God. To offer what you call
enlightenment if we turn our backs
on God. No thanks

The enlightenment you should share
with everyone is how your master
got kicked out of heaven but that was
left out of your spiel. That enlightenment
I am already aware of.

And btw, no thank you to your one world
religion either. I shall keep my faith in
Christianity. I am already enlightened.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
reply to post by IntastellaBurst

 

one of the most evil OP speeches I have heard
in a long while.

So with enlightenment we all become Gods.

or maybe you have forgotten this lil verse

"Thou shalt have no other Gods before me"
KJV

Or maybe that was your intent
to draw Christians away from their
belief in God. To offer what you call
enlightenment if we turn our backs
on God. No thanks

The enlightenment you should share
with everyone is how your master
got kicked out of heaven but that was
left out of your spiel. That enlightenment
I am already aware of.

And btw, no thank you to your one world
religion either. I shall keep my faith in
Christianity. I am already enlightened.

Wow boondock disagreeing is one thing but judging in this manner goes against the tenets of even modern traditional Christianity. Why not leave it up to the Christ to judge as he admonishes in the scriptures, also to love even your enemies? Also you shouldn't even judge IntastellaBurst an enemy. The scriptures also teach to seek the kingdom of God within as in Luke 17. Don't be so sure you have it all figured out, and as the master said; love your nieghbor as your self instead of condemning them.

The modern Christian religion does not have a monopoly on truth, a simple study of its history and how it came about will reveal this. Never the less there are some great truths to be found therein amongst the falsehoods. If most who call themselves Christians would spend thier time trying to emulate the Christ instead of judging thier neighbors as condemned they would take a great leap forward. Take the example of the women caught in adultery. Here the one whom Christians believe is the judge of the world refuses to judge her, verbally sends her accusers packing, and then tells her "where are your accusers"? Go your way and sin no more. What a powerful example of how a so called Christian should act toward his fellow man.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
reply to post by IntastellaBurst

 

I am already enlightened.

If you're already enlightened, could you explain us this passage?

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Are they talking here about your biological mother and father or about something MUCH MORE profound?

reply to post by boondock-saint



Christianity has nothing to do with enlightment, .... only blind devotion and ultimately.... ignorance.


Christ was enlightened, .... however most of his words have been misinterpreted, as you cannot view them from a reality based in the physical.

Being born again has nothing to do with dipping your head underwater, ... it is a real thing. To be born again unto NEW worlds, ..... means to shift perspective.

reply to post by IntastellaBurst


I used to say i was born again, but now i realize that it was actually more like i died.
The i that died was a false identity. The identity that died was the one that was conditioned from the moment i was born into this world. The conditioned identity learned and believed it was bad and not good enough, but the conditioned identity is a false identity. Ideas believed (but not true) make up the false identity.
Deep down we know we are false and it drives us mad. This makes us feel as though we are missing something, because we sense a feeling of unrest, dis ease.
When this false identity falls away nothing is needed, because everything is provided.
There is nothing to do because everything is being done.
Resting in peace.

reply to post by boondock-saint


We can not become gods because there is only one. One. Which means we are God. The whole lot is god. But as humans we have deluded ourselves by thinking we are separate from god. We are the only species on the planet that has come up with such an illogical conclusion.
Everything and nothing is god, and if we can look to the source of ourselves, look within, know thyself, god will be known.

'Thou shall have no other gods before me'. Me, a name i call the self. No authority, no god over me. God comes through this apparatus and is all that is seen.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

It was about six years ago. Looking for answers I tried to find connections between al kinds of relegions and beliefs. I'm rather open minded but also sceptic in nature, What I tried to do was search for data in a forrest of imagery, trying to see what they really ment to say. I had no favorites, and tried to be as objective as possible, zen, bible, book of the dead, the emerald tablet, tarot, kabala, tree of life, quantummechanics... as much as I could find.

I did not pose any belief in them, merely observed, like the biblical explanation of the trinity, and how a trio of quarks produce matter, I also learned how much books like the bible had been changed and twisted, parts left out, and censored.

It must have created the right state of mind.

One day I stood up from behind my desk, took a few steps and this terrible feeling came over me, All that I was build of: Ideas, moral, love, how i see the world, what i think of myself, became meaningless.

Now, I knew that before as well, we create our own reality with our brain, people who are insane see something completely different for example, alcohol and drugs change our reality. Those examples are extreem, but it is the same with 'normal' people too: we are constantly fooled by our own brain.

But To know something and to actually Grasp something is very different, We can imagine that it hurts to get shot down (we all saw too much movies :p) But when you would really experience it, I bet it would be very different from what you imagined it to be.

For a short moment I saw the Illusions fall appart, the table in front of me was no longer a table, it had shed the illusion I had given it , it was just there as matter, energy (the 2 are the same)

For a tiny moment all that i was made of fell away, there was only everything, you could call it emptyness as well, it's beyond discription.

Can you imagine how a 2 dimentional 'flatlander' would feel if he suddenly woke up in our 3d world?
Or a blind person who can suddenly see due to some new kind of operation. their brain wouln't know what to do with that new information.

Well, that's what happened, my brain was thinking "out of the box" for a moment.
Afther that moment I started to feel something again, fear. I was so afraid that I wouldn't be able to return to my normal way of thinking. I was'nt outside my body or so, but I could'nt get back inside the reality I was used to.

Eventually I did of course, but even remembering that moment caused me to loose my breath and overwhelm me with utter fear. Not fear of dying or getting hurt, it's just that my mind could'nt grasp it, there was nothing to hold on to.

Afther that I went to see lots of dokters because I thought I had a Pshychotic episode. But afther tests they all said I was 'normal' and that it could'nt have been that.

Those moments of fear continued for 2 more years

Koans in Zen are strange riddles or statements that sometimes make no sense. They are ment to 'shortcicuit' your logic way of thinking so you can have a similar (better) experience as mine.

Returning to the Ordinary World
A monk asked Kegon, "How does an enligthtened one return to the ordinary world?" Kegon replied, "A broken mirror never reflects again; fallen flowers never go back to the old branches."

It cannot be understood by logic; it cannot be transmitted in words; it cannot be explained in writing; it cannot be measured by reason. It is like [...] a great fire that consumes all who come near it." (Chung-feng Ming-pen )

"These stories and sayings contain patterns, like blueprints, for various inner exercises in attention, mental posture, and higher perception, summarized in extremely brief vignettes enabling the individual to hold entire universes of thought in mind all at once, without running through doctrinal discourses or disrupting ordinary consciousness of everyday affairs." (Cleary 1994)

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Morrel

 

Can you tell me how long ago this happened? When did your ego fall off? I am very interested as i have had a similar experience. I know it is scary when it happens, and takes a long time to come to terms with it, to integrate it. Tell me more.

The Ego is Fear.
When the Ego is gone there isnt any fear.
If you are experiencing fear you havent reached
Enlightenment.
Sorry.

reply to post by Morrel

For a tiny moment all that i was made of fell away, there was only everything, you could call it emptyness as well, it's beyond discription.

It was very interesting to hear your description of your personal experiences.

What you described sounds exactly what I experienced almost every single day from a very early age until about the age of 30. The experience would last quite a lot longer, often as long as 2 hours, and it would always send me into a state of panic.

After decades of silently suffering in this way (I kept the experience to myself, not even telling my parents), I finally discovered that I had what is now called a panic disorder, which is recognized as a medical condition.

However, while explaining the fear/panic side of the equation, the medical disorder does not answer the question of the precipitating perception of reality losing all substance. The answers to this I only found in spiritual teachings.

It seems that when the consciousness is withdrawn to the eye centre in meditation, this sensation of dissolving of material reality comes automatically as the attention is absorbed within. All those times when it happened spontaneously throughout the years was simply an indication that my consciousness, or conscious attention, was withdrawing somewhat towards the eye center, though beyond my deliberate control. It was in fact a loss of control over the automatic function which keeps the focus of consciousness where it is normally located in order to see the world as an everyday material reality.

I also have a theory why the experience happened so regularly over such a length of time. Maybe in my past incarnation I used to spend 2 hours a day in a meditative state, and vestiges of this habit of withdrawing the consciousness within carried through to this life. (Unfortunately, the tendency to actually meditate has largely failed to materialize this time around.....)

I'll do some reading on panic disorder, thanks for sharing your experience.
RRokkyy : That 'moment' and the fear afther that are seperate things, lmagin opening your eyes and realising your way up in the air, first , you might for a moment feel amazed with the beautyfull view, but then you start to fall and panic takes over.
And don't be sorry It was not wat I expected enlightment to be, I don't think it was, but something simular.
Maybe an enlightning gone bad, I don't know what it was. I just mention that zen stuff because it somewhat describes it.
Maybe it was a one time panic disorder, who knows. (the other times it was just the memory of it that got me scared)
Anyway, it was enough to put my books and quest far away on the attic and not think (to deep) about it anymore, untill now

reply to post by Morrel


Hi Morrel,
Thank you for answering me. The reason i asked you is because you said it was scary and i want to assure you that it is normal for fear to arise. It was not enlightenment gone wrong, what you experienced was an awakening.
The awakening is when a glimpse of what is real is seen, it is very beautiful and very real, in fact it is all that is real. The awakening is when the mind stops interfering, gives up. The mind (thoughts) is like a veil shrouding the real experience. When the mind shuts up telling you what you are seeing, what is seen, is seen raw.
The fear is the mind fighting for survival. The mind is a useful tool, but it is not what you are. The mind does not want to lose it's position on the throne, it is the false messiah, the false prophet. It's ok, you can put the mind to one side and carry on living, what you are is life and life can live without relying on the fearful mind.
The mind, that everyone is scared of losing, tells you there is something wrong, that's it's job. However the mind only works on problems from the past and future and no matter how hard it tries it can never solve anything in the past or future because the one that houses it is always here and now.
So be here and now. The intelligence energy that you are, the light that shines is always here and now.
You have experienced an awakening, so you have seen the truth. Liberation, enlightenment or self realization is when this seeing has been totally accepted, integrated. When liberation is complete the fear will go completely, this can take many years after the initial awakening.
If you would like to talk more, i can offer pointers.
Namaste x

Originally posted by Morrel
I'll do some reading on panic disorder, thanks for sharing your experience.
RRokkyy : That 'moment' and the fear afther that are seperate things, lmagin opening your eyes and realising your way up in the air, first , you might for a moment feel amazed with the beautyfull view, but then you start to fall and panic takes over.
And don't be sorry

It was not wat I expected enlightment to be, I don't think it was, but something simular.
Maybe an enlightning gone bad, I don't know what it was. I just mention that zen stuff because it somewhat describes it.
Maybe it was a one time panic disorder, who knows. (the other times it was just the memory of it that got me scared)
Anyway, it was enough to put my books and quest far away on the attic and not think (to deep) about it anymore, untill now

edit on 20-3-2011 by Morrel because: (no reason given)

ATS GURU IS IN
The ascending ones proceed in fear as do the descending ones.
Further lessons are available.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Thanks Itisnowagain, that explains where that negative feeling came from. It's easyer to understand afther reading your post.
I'm always ready to learn more, as long as you don't call me "grashopper"

reply to post by Morrel


Years after my awakening i stumbled across Eckhart Tolle, who also had an awakening. Best place to check him out is on you tube. Shortly after i told my therapist that i had found the formula and that i would be ok now, she didn't believe me. I stopped councelling and my anti depressants shortly after that. It's now two and a half years later and life is wonderful.
Other people i love to listen to on you tube are: Jac O'Keefe, Peter Brown, Benjamin Smythe, Mooji, Adyshanti.
Have a look they may help you understand what happened to you.
Namaste x