Attention Israeli apologists: This is why the world condemns Israel!

reply to post by Eliad


I'm not saying I believe that israel's government was behind it but I do believe that the zionists will and have killed jews before to further their agenda. King david hotel bombing anyone? how many jews were killed there? Oh wait it was arabs right? lol

What did Israel do after this killing. Immediately OK MORE "settlement" building. The very thing that is pissing these people off. It makes no sense.

reply to post by dashen


What would be the motive for a Palestinian to mercilessly slaughter an entire family?

Just wondering

reply to post by BiGGz


Gee, I dunno, probably the same thing that would compel him or her to put on a bomb belt, loaded with ball bearings and nails walk onto a bus loaded with women, children, and elderly and blow themselves up.

Do I really have to link the dozens and dozens of cases. I've seen the aftermath in person. Fingers, toes, human viscera in the streets. And if you want to say, oh it was a setup, false flag. They regularly tape gloating videos before they murder innocent children and invalids. If you say, Israel kills their children, I'll ask you why Hamas and the PLO uses them as human shields, and uses elementary schools and hospitals as weapon dumps and bomb factories..
Believe me, I am no great fan of the Israeli government, but the Palestinians (or at least those in power) are totally to blame for their crappy situation. They get enough foreign aid that thier cities should look fabulous, and everyone could be employed in some way. Instead they hook up donkeys to broken down cars for transportation(only slight exaggeration). They could build their own power plants, yet Israel provides most if not all utilities for the Palestinians.
So I dunno, there's alot to say on the matter, both sides have shed innocent blood, both have screwed up agendas, but as far as this case, in all likelyhood it was a Palestinian. After the slaying, Gaza and the West Bank rejoiced and handed out candy to children and passerbys in the streets, these are not the type of people that we're used to. Cold blooded murder is a praiseworthy thing to these people.
So there you go.

Wow Ockham's Razor is usually frowned upon when investigating a crime.... In the US that is called racial profiling. Lots of black and latino gangbangers are responsible for a majority of violence in large cities, so we should just assume every murder was done by them? We should collectively punish them all until someone confesses or rats. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.... Going by that mentality, every time the IDF decides to blow up some civilian buildings, the palestinians are justified in retaliating and blowing up as many isreali people as they can. Collective punishment is WRONG!

reply to post by BiGGz


Well, to be completely honest, it's not a huge puzzle in this case.

The settlers are, to put it very bluntly, thieves. Weirdly enough, that's something that even our friend Eliad seems to agree on. They show up on land that isn't theirs, wave guns around, and then claim it in the name of Eretz Yisrael. They usually have the full backing of Israel, even when Israel's politicians are making a show of hemming and hawing about these illegal settlements. They send soldiers out to protect these colonists, soldiers who are there to protect colonists from Palestinians - but pointedly, not the other way around.

What amazes me, frankly, is that there has been so little violence targeting these colonist douchebags. If I were one of the Palestinians who found my olive trees burnt, or who had my kids shot at by joyriding teenagers from the colony... well, I don't know what I would do, but it would be something a little more proactive than a resigned sigh, you know?

reply to post by BiGGz

Originally posted by BiGGz
This reminds me of the time Italian partisan fighters during ww2 killed 30 Nazis using a land mine. The Nazis then rounded up 10 Italian citizens for every Nazi killed, and slaughtered them. 335 Italians (women, children, elderly) lost their lives that day.

Oh, does it now? Yes, I can see the parallels, seeing as how so many Palestinians have died in the past few days.

Hey wait a minute, isn't the cell that assumed responsibility for the attack called "The imad mughniyeh cell"?

And wasn't imad mughniyeh assasinated on Febuary 12th?

And didn't Hezbollah threaten that it would take revenge and have tried to do so in the past?

Wait a minute! Could this have been a retaliation?
So let me see if I got it straight- The Israeli army killed 1 enemy combatant, and in return the enemy kills 5 Israeli civilians...

Hey.. You know what that reminds me of?

It's not a 1/10 ratio, but 1/5 is pretty descent, no?

Oh, and do you know what your post reminds me of? Do you know the story of how Nazi propaganda used to tell people the Jews are the source of all evil in the world? Yeah, that.

reply to post by Eliad


What a silly mindless post...

Lets remember the statistics of Israeli V's Palestinian deaths through this conflict..
Don't start the count as of yesterday....

reply to post by BiGGz


Your guess is as good as mine.. The police, however, has evidence.

It could have been a settler, it could have been a Palestinian, anything is possible, just in the same way that any video you see of a Palestinian being "shot" by an Israeli soldier could be fake, in the same way that anything anti Israeli you read could be a misrepresentation of the truth.

At the end of the day we're not getting any details out of the investigation, so anyone can just assume whatever they're comfortable with- Gem_Man things it was a Thai worker, Bluemirage thinks it's a Palestinian, you think it's an Israeli.

Whatever works for you, just don't try and pass it off as "logic".. We're all just making guesses here.

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by backinblack


How could you miss the point I was making?...

You have no issue with that guy's post, but you jump at the sight of mine?

Talk about hypocrisy...

reply to post by Eliad


I am 100% sure it is a Palestinian because this is the same crime scene found in other "settler's" homes over many years....

and the Israelis ALWAYS found the perpetrator and the perpetrator was ALWAYS Palestinian.

I am 100% sure the perpetrator is #ting himself(s) right now because he/they know his/their days of life are numbered here on earth.

The wife/mother fought for her life so the Israelis WOULD have some DNA of the perp/s under her finger nails

reply to post by mayabong


Anything is possible, there is a chance that this was done by Israel to demonize the Palestinians, just as it is equally possible that the Palestinians fake death certificates and videos to demonize Israel, or that the U.S orchestrated 9/11.

Anything is possible, I keep an open mind, but I also keep in mind the probability of each option. These 400 housing units are worthless, meaningless... Minuscule on the large scale, and they'd all be eventually removed.

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


What's weird about the fact that I'm against the settlements? Have you been completely brainwashed to the point where you can't imagine that an Israeli would be in agreement with you?

Do you really think your opinions are universally "true" or "right"?..

You, with your insane notions of Israelis and settlers ("They show up on land that isn't theirs, wave guns around, and then claim it in the name of Eretz Yisrael") are slowly turning into that which you imagine the Israelis and settlers to be.

The less objective you are, the more ignorant you become.

What amazes me, frankly, is that there has been so little violence targeting these colonist douchebags. If I were one of the Palestinians who found my olive trees burnt, or who had my kids shot at by joyriding teenagers from the colony... well, I don't know what I would do, but it would be something a little more proactive than a resigned sigh, you know?

And apparently you're also delusional.

Let me google that for you

reply to post by dashen


Not what I asked you, stop avoiding the question. I just want a simple answer. What would the motive be for the Palestinians to kill a settlers family? I want to hear it from your mouth, maybe you'll have an epiphany.

Originally posted by Eliad
So let me see if I got it straight- The Israeli army killed 1 enemy combatant, and in return the enemy kills 5 Israeli civilians...

What about the 300 villagers that were arrested and we haven't heard from since? That's what I thought was comparative... Looney soldiers, running into a town to gather people up for harsh interrogation sounds like a Nazi move.

Originally posted by Eliad
you think it's an Israeli.

Never did I say that once. I won't dismiss the possibility of the murderer being of Israeli nationality, nor would I dismiss the possibility of him/her being Palestinian. What I am not doing, is jumping to the conclusion that he is definitely Palestinian.

Here was my post you are referring to:

Originally posted by BiGGz
It's entirely plausible the murderer could have been a settler with an agenda.

Did I say it WAS a settler?

Originally posted by Eliad
Oh, and do you know what your post reminds me of? Do you know the story of how Nazi propaganda used to tell people the Jews are the source of all evil in the world? Yeah, that.

It's impossible to talk to you Israeli sympathizers. No rationalization what-so-ever, and because I beg to differ I'm a Nazi propagandist.... If a rock falls down a cliff and hits a Jewish car, it's a Pali rock thrower.

What makes it ok for Israel to do to the Palestinians what Nazi Germany did to them?

Can you say double standard?

The oppressed have now become the oppressors! This is undeniable fact.

Originally posted by BiGGz
reply to post by dashen

 

Not what I asked you, stop avoiding the question. I just want a simple answer. What would the motive be for the Palestinians to kill a settlers family? I want to hear it from your mouth, maybe you'll have an epiphany.

I said, I dont know because I am not a sociopath raised by sociopaths. In my neighborhood we don't celebrate and give out candy when palestinians are rounded up or killed. The Israeli policy (which I disagree with) is to round up bunches of palestinians, hold them for a few days for questions, and usually releases most and holds a few with connections to Hamas and the PA as a bargaining chip when trading back captured remains of soldiers or kidnapped hostages. Again, not my cup of tea. As far as a motive that you could perhaps accept, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, and others donate tens of thousands of dollars to the families of the perpetrators of the attacks and murders, so money, honor, "revenge" the usual MO of murderers.

Originally posted by dashen

Originally posted by BiGGz
reply to post by dashen

 

Not what I asked you, stop avoiding the question. I just want a simple answer. What would the motive be for the Palestinians to kill a settlers family? I want to hear it from your mouth, maybe you'll have an epiphany.

bargaining chip when trading back captured remains of soldiers or kidnapped hostages.

hmmm .... my dementia is playing up, can you remind me how many soldiers or hostages you are trying to get back from Hammas ?

reply to post by Eliad


How can you say it's possible Israelis did this massacre???

Shame on you, shame shame shame!!!

reply to post by mayabong


What happened at the King David Hotel is a completely different time and incident....I had a relative inside that hotel at the exact time it was hit and he barely got out alive.

And one of the "specialists" of the King David Hotel attack has a son who is now mayor of Chicago!

Go figure.

reply to post by mayabong


I know I'll get alot of flack from this statement but in my view there is NO such thing as a "settler" in Israel; "settlers" are Israeli citizens and I believe they can go anywhere in the land of Eretz Yisrael and build their homes just as an Israeli Arab or Palestinian should; however in saying that, if the Palestinians don't like it the border of Jordan, Lebanon and Syria awaits them (may not be with open arms on the other side but thats their problem).

If any Israeli Arab or Palestinian won't leave and they play up......viva la Gaza!

Originally posted by Eliad
What's weird about the fact that I'm against the settlements? Have you been completely brainwashed to the point where you can't imagine that an Israeli would be in agreement with you?

Nope. However, I'm fully able to read your posts, and evidently, the colonies are the only place you are able to find fault with Israel. You sell the same tired cliches I can get in any AIPAC pamplet, you join in the usual anti-Arab demagoguery, and you frequently just invent your own history to make Israel look like, well, god's gift to the world.

Has nothing to do with your nationality. Rather it's surprising that you, in specific, have at least that one line in the sand.

Do you really think your opinions are universally "true" or "right"?

Never claimed they were. Just that I base them on examined facts. Sometimes the facts aren't completely accurate, calling for a revision of my opinion. Other times they are accurate, which does mean those who argue against them are in the wrong.

You, with your insane notions of Israelis and settlers ("They show up on land that isn't theirs, wave guns around, and then claim it in the name of Eretz Yisrael") are slowly turning into that which you imagine the Israelis and settlers to be.

Well, point of fact, the land isn't theirs, is it? Point of fact, they DO engage in acts of violence. Point of fact, the land they squat on is claimed as part of Israel.

So my statements are hardly "insane," Eliad. Your claim that you oppose them, followed by denigrating me for stating facts about these folks is rather... what's the word? Hypocritical?

The less objective you are, the more ignorant you become.

Physician, heal thyself.

What amazes me, frankly, is that there has been so little violence targeting these colonist douchebags. If I were one of the Palestinians who found my olive trees burnt, or who had my kids shot at by joyriding teenagers from the colony... well, I don't know what I would do, but it would be something a little more proactive than a resigned sigh, you know?

And apparently you're also delusional.

Let me google that for you

Thanks for that.

Oh, three pages of condemnation of the attacks on Itamar - I guess that kind of blows yours and dontreally's assertions that "nobody cares" and "it gets no coverage" out of the water. Okay, here's idfspokesperson.com giving me some stats and... and... Okay, point of order, shooting someone with a light arm isn't terrorism. And there were only six of those for all of 2010. No word on who they targeted; If I had to wager, I'd guess some dude was shooting other Palestinians. That's crime. We have that in Tacoma, too. Hell, Seattle probably outranks all of the west bank in terms of terror by this standard, since we're counting pistol fire, stabbings, and... hitting someone with a car?

Know what I'm not seeing a lot of in your google? Palestinians attacking colonists.

I did find this story about a peace-loving exemplar of the settler movement

Jerusalem — Just a week after the Forward published a feature about a book by two West Bank settler rabbis discussing scenarios for Jews to kill non-Jewish babies and innocents with the supposed blessing of Jewish law, one of the rabbi-authors has been arrested in connection with the recent torching of a nearby mosque.

Yeah, I'm insane.

Page seven, still more stuff about Itamar. You know, tragic as this situation is, Eliad... its presence on every page of your search doesn't actually multiply it. It just injures your previous claim that it doesn't get enough coverage.

Page ten... still nothing but Itamar. There's some scatterings about claims that the wall prevents terrorism, but that's not actually a story about violence.

So... thank you again. your link kind of proved my damn point. In fact it reinforced it. I'm surprised that there's been pretty much no violence from Palestinians against the colonists.

Pro tip; read your supporting links before posting them.