Labor Unions

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posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:16 AM
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I think they are despicable. (In most cases.) While I recognize that workers should be treated fairly I do not think workers should not be able to be fired, or they are deserving of some ridiculous pay because they are union workers. I do not think they should protest inside the state capital as a way to influence public opinion or to influence lawmakers. The unions are communism and in America we are capitalists. You can be a communist, just go somewhere else or stop complaining.

What say you?




posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:22 AM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


Capitalism is going to stop working eventually :-P . Notice how most of the businesses are owed by each other? Soon enough, there is going to be no competition to the big boys on top.

I had a few bad tachers in high school whom the school would have loved to kick out, but couldn't. And the average salary was 6 figures, (yea yea rich school district)!!! Plus benefits!!!! AND SUMMERS OFF!!!! Ridiculous when the teachers at the school aren't what the taxpayers were paying for.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:35 AM
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reply to post by RustyShakleford92
 


Thats true, but not really. Capitalism is spawned from one determining his own worth which usually begins with small business.

Communism is nothing but a sad pity party where everyone loses big.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
I think they are despicable. (In most cases.) While I recognize that workers should be treated fairly I do not think workers should not be able to be fired, or they are deserving of some ridiculous pay because they are union workers. I do not think they should protest inside the state capital as a way to influence public opinion or to influence lawmakers. The unions are communism and in America we are capitalists. You can be a communist, just go somewhere else or stop complaining.

What say you?



You say the unions are communism but you want to take away their right to peaceably assemble now who's the commy. So is it ok for the GOP to sell themselves to big business so corporations can get their way? And America is a democracy it's the people who support capitalism who are trying to turn America into a fascist society.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:56 AM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


They gathered inside a state capitol while dems went on an acid trip to another state. Frickin candyland.

America is not a democracy it is a constitutional republic. Know the difference
edit on 16-3-2011 by 12.21.12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:01 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by RustyShakleford92
 


Thats true, but not really. Capitalism is spawned from one determining his own worth which usually begins with small business.

Communism is nothing but a sad pity party where everyone loses big.


You can't have capitalism without consumerism. Capitalism now, relies on a constant stream of consumption, why do you think companies spend moe on advertising than developing their product. Advertisers have to create new need to make us keep consuming. If people stopped consuming our economies will grind to a halt.

With regard to Unions. Like them or not, they rae the only defense the common man has against the exploittative nature of capitalism. IMO



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:04 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


capitalism is not exploitive, it is actually working hard and achieving things. Name one successful person who didn't work hard.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


capitalism is not exploitive, it is actually working hard and achieving things. Name one successful person who didn't work hard.


There are lots of successful people in the world who do very little. Many born with a silver spoon in their mouths have a relitively simple life going from top school to top university, where eventually through their contacts and social standing will get a well paid job. Unfortunately we do not start life on a level playing field where hard work results in wealth. Its a nice ruse played by the capitalist class to keep you supporting the system and blaming those at the bottom for being lazy. Maybe the class system isn't so apparent in the US, but here in the UK, it is very obvious to anyone who takes the time to look.

On exploitation, ask those who are making running shoes or cheap clothes for westerners in sweat shops in the far east if they feel exploited. They also work pretty hard , yet share little of the wealth, not even enough to buy a pair of the shoes they make.
edit on 16-3-2011 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


Whats so obvious about it? The fact that the US has the best space program, the best and the brightest scientists and researchers, the fact that the US has dominated the world in just about every other aspect besides soccer?

The fact that the US gives out more aid to foreign nations in times of trouble than any other nation? What is wrong with capitalism? We are not entitled, we work for it, capitalism is the vehicle.
'



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:26 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 





On exploitation, ask those who are making running shoes or cheap clothes for westerners in sweat shops in the far east if they feel exploited. They also work pretty hard , yet share little of the wealth, not even enough to buy a pair of the shoes they make.


Yeah I know, it says made in China and the sweat shops they work in, did I mention that China is communist. Yeah cheap labor works a bit to our disadvantage in a global economy. In America you could hire illegal aliens and pay them way less than any citizen., but thats a whole nother issue. All people talk amazing amounts of BS about USA but when it all comes down to it this is where they want to come to find a better life.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:45 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 





On exploitation, ask those who are making running shoes or cheap clothes for westerners in sweat shops in the far east if they feel exploited. They also work pretty hard , yet share little of the wealth, not even enough to buy a pair of the shoes they make.


Yeah I know, it says made in China and the sweat shops they work in, did I mention that China is communist. Yeah cheap labor works a bit to our disadvantage in a global economy. In America you could hire illegal aliens and pay them way less than any citizen., but thats a whole nother issue. All people talk amazing amounts of BS about USA but when it all comes down to it this is where they want to come to find a better life.


so you are happy to exploit others as long as they arn't American.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:49 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


No, I just think you all are content and thats fine if you are but I really don't think you are unless you wouldn't be here. So the two obviously don't go along, but there is hope. The real dream behind capitalism was to manifest destiny as everyone has the ability to do, but so few understand. You don't do it by complaining or being a lazy cowardly individual. You do it by creation and teaching others what you have learned to create and that is capitalism, the arm of creation.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 05:01 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


No, I just think you all are content and thats fine if you are but I really don't think you are unless you wouldn't be here. So the two obviously don't go along, but there is hope. The real dream behind capitalism was to manifest destiny as everyone has the ability to do, but so few understand. You don't do it by complaining or being a lazy cowardly individual. You do it by creation and teaching others what you have learned to create and that is capitalism, the arm of creation.


But Capitalism as well as being exploitative as I have proved. Is also destructive. It reduces everything to a competition and in all competitions there are winners and losers. The current system of Global capitalism creates few winners and many losers. We see the destructive nature of capitalism in the wars for oil and the drilling for oil. Capitalism has no concern for the environment or human well being, it is about capital and profit.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 05:03 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


Thats the way life is. It's a simple fact. Your first two sentences anyways.

On the other hand I don't believe in competition, I believe in a learning process Unfortunately if you are not eductated enough you fall behind the curve, but that could change if everyone was educated..

Anyways give it some thought, getting early in the morning here time for bed, Nice talking to you.

We americans are not the enemy, well not all of us, some of us just think differently.
edit on 16-3-2011 by 12.21.12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


Thats the way life is. It's a simple fact.


Yep it is , but does that mean I should not strive for something better,strive for a society that does not reward greed instead rewards altruism, that values the work of working people in our communities rather than the values of celebrity and consumerism.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


Throughout this little debate, not once have I taken a pop at America. I am from the UK a country as complicit as the US. The UK is a capitalist country. The government is made up from millionaires whom all went to the finest schools and universities. They want more capitalism at the moment, surprisingly



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 05:15 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


If I had my choice it would be anarchy, but I won't settle for anything less. I believe that less government and more community is the answer and that is the big political debate going on in America today, we want the fairness cops to go away because they are screwing it up for everyone else. Have a nice day, Ill be back soon.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
I think they are despicable. (In most cases.) While I recognize that workers should be treated fairly I do not think workers should not be able to be fired, or they are deserving of some ridiculous pay because they are union workers.


Well, the sad fact of the matter is that workers are not treated fairly, unless they have the ability to demand and force fair treatment. Every business is a collaborative effort between employers and employed, and the bare fact of the matter is that it is the employed - the workers - who make, run, and secure the business.


I do not think they should protest inside the state capital as a way to influence public opinion or to influence lawmakers.


Take that up with Thomas Jefferson, then. First amendment, check it out.


The unions are communism and in America we are capitalists. You can be a communist, just go somewhere else or stop complaining.


Well no, if they're anything, unions are socialist. communism's a whole 'nother ballpark, and I don't think you're really qualified to argue about any of the three systems. However, it should be noted that America is what Americans make of it. Capitalism is not enshrined anywhere, It is simply the most tolerated system at the moment.


What say you?


I say you should conduct basic research on hte topics you want to discuss. For instance, this silliness:


Originally posted by 12.21.12
America is not a democracy it is a constitutional republic. Know the difference


And what, pray tell, do you think a constitutional republic is, exactly?



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


Yes in America there is a right to freedom of speech, religion and freedom to assemble.

You can join a labor union and the labor union has a right to assemble.

However, collective bargaining is not part of that first amendment which states

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

No where does it say anything about the right to collectively bargain.

The United States has four branches of Government, legislative, judiciary, executive and the press. Unions are not a branch of Government and hey do have a right to peacefully assemble and address grievances.

Second it undermines the constitution and US law for example the antitrust law which was to protect workers from which labor unions are exempt from, however it is only recognized in 1948 by the UN as a direct result of WWII in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, who's policies directly undermind the constitution of the United States.

In America Labor Unions only represent a small number of the American people and do not reflect the american people as a whole. As a result of collective bargaining and ridiculous laws that are supposed to "protect workers" they do quite the opposite on a daily basis.

In america you already have a right to a fair work place. That does not mean you are entitled to the same wages as everyone else, it does not mean that you can not be fired if your employer is not satisfied. Thats pretty damn fair if you ask me. Employers have a right to fire people and only in a Union would the law say that Bob or Sally may not be let go even though they don't come to work and do unsatisfactory work.

I remember back in the 90's the labor union grocery store workers would all protest and not got to work for weeks at a time. The problem with this is that the labor unions would then hire temporary workers all while paying the union workers protesting outside with american tax paying money, now it is happening in our schools and I for one am sick of it. I think these union protestors are absolutely pathetic and should be ashamed for being so un-american.

Finally United States is a constitutional republic which means that it has a constitution and that in America the states limit the Federal Government from becoming to powerful.

Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate

^UNIONS

Socialism is an economic and political theory advocating public or common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources.[1][2][3] A socialist society is organized on the basis of relatively equal power-relations, self-management, dispersed decision-making (adhocracy) and a reduction or elimination of hierarchical and bureaucratic forms of administration and governance; the extent of which varies in different types of socialism.[4][5] This ranges from the establishment of cooperative management structures to the abolition of all hierarchical structures in favor of free association.

^Same damn thing



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


capitalism is not exploitive, it is actually working hard and achieving things. Name one successful person who didn't work hard.

Paris Hilton, Dumb as a post and yet she has a successful business, first as a part in that totally horrific roust called whatever the heck it is on Fox network, and then with cosmetics she didn't do one ounce of labor creating she merely told the "lowers" to create something for her to sell. And she paid with her fathers money the labor force to "Create" her winning cosmetics.

Can people really be this blindsided?





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