A reflection: Japan/Haiti tragedy - is there a silver lining?

A reflection: Japan/Haiti tragedy - is there a silver lining?

In the face of such tragedy (an ongoing one I might add), in the face of such catastrophic events, is there a silver lining in the midst of such unimaginable difficulty?

True, it's very difficult to see it for in such circumstances a lost of life (in the thousands) is hard to think about, it's mind numbing even unthinkable. Yet there is a silver lining.

For such tragedy reminds us of how fragile life is, how fleeting it is. Here today and gone tomorrow - in a blink of an eye, tragically oftentimes without any warning. Whether young or old, weak or strong, rich or poor, we face the same "unexpected circumstances and occurrences". And when it happens we are powerless. Nature is certain to win and we fall victim to it.

But to those who perished in such tragedy, we can't help but think what will become of them and those they left behind. One thing is for sure though, the memories of them will remain with us (for a moment) but their future is in the hand of God awaiting a resurrection from which the violent past will just be a blink of an eye. For them, upon resurrection their eyes will open to a beautiful earth. Awaken to an earth where a promised was made - "you will be with me in paradise". But as for those of us who are witnesses of such catastrophic events, the silver lining is this; it gives us the opportunity to reflect on where we are and what we are doing with our lives. It's sad though that sometimes if not most (of the time) it takes a tragedy to open our eyes to what's one of the most important in life - that is, life itself.

But sad as it is, it does give us a chance to ask ourselves on how we are using our transitory lives. Do we value it or just take it for granted?

Do we see our lives a product of chance (as some believed)? If so, it is a pointless brief life then (imho).

Or do we see it as a gift from a Creator? If so, how are we then using this God given life?

Are we using it for our own selfish reasons or are we using it to serve others?

A very wise man once said -”there's more happiness in giving than in receiving". Is this true? Millions upon millions of people, believers as well as non-believers from time immemorial had proven this to be true.

Young and old, rich and poor had proven beyond any reasonable doubt it truthfulness. They found contentment and some sort of meaning by serving others. Thus it might do us good then to ask ourselves; when was the last time I hug my loved ones or said an endearing word? When was the last time I said something nice and up-building or given hope to someone in need of hope? When was the last time I helped someone? If we can't remember - now is the time to start doing it.

But is serving others the ultimate answer, the silver lining? No for man is imperfect, transitory and prone to error. However noble and good the intentions are, it is limited, overwhelmingly limited to our own abilities, talents and possessions. We are also at the mercy of these "unexpected circumstances and occurrences“. A reality when it strikes, all things we posses and know can disappear in just a blink of an eye.

So by looking at such tragedy with a sober eye one can evaluate and recalibrate one’s own pathway. Plan for the future. But to what future, to what pathway, who’s direction?

Jesus said that “man can’t live on bread alone but by every utterance from God”. Is there truthfulness to this statement? Time and again – it’s been proven to be true, because that which is material is temporary but that which invisible, spiritual is permanent and can’t be destroyed. Thus the word of God contains the sayings of life! Everlasting life.

On this Jesus urge each one of us to then:

“Stop storing up for yourselves treasures upon the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break in and steal. Rather, store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” (Matthew 6:19-21)

Why? Because in the face of such disaster and tragedy such treasures will not be lost, stolen or even be destroyed and above all God will never forget it.

It is also by accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, doing God's will and obeying his commands and teaching others about God's coming Kingdom by means of his son Jesus are the treasures that we should pursue. These are the treasures that will never fade away, will never be destroyed.

To those who have such treasures - the future is assured even if their precious life is lost. Nothing can take it away from them as their names are written in God's "book of remembrance". To them the words of Jesus will be fulfilled:

“Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live.” (John 5:25).

But as witnesses of such events in a world alienated from God, in a world "that is under the power of the wicked one", we must then determine which road we need to take. And on this wise King Solomon who had it all came to this one simple conclusion:

“The conclusion of the matter, everything having been heard, is: Fear the [true] God and keep his commandments. For this is the whole [obligation] of man.” (Ecclesiastes 12:13)

What more worthwhile and meaningful existence than serving the Creator of life. That was the conclusion of someone who've seen and experienced life in all its limited glory.

But there’s someone greater than Solomon, someone who've been with God from the beginning of creation, who've seen true life in ALL its splendor and glory. This someone who said - “I am the way, the truth and the life”. This someone is no other than Jesus the Son of God who prayed:

“This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:3)

In other words we are urge to learn who the true God is, what is he like, why he created life and who Jesus is, what is he like and his future role in the coming new earth - new system. We are urge to seek God now while there’s still time (Zeph 2:1-3).

For if we have this knowledge coupled with an unshakable faith on God's promises then we are able to cope when such tragedy strikes.

Jesus continues: “Nevertheless, seek continually his kingdom, and these things will be added to YOU.” (Luke 12:31).

Thus the seeking of God's Kingdom must be our priority in this present life of ours. It must be foremost in our minds rather than the temporary material things "where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break in and steal" or where disaster can easily destroy. We must do this now for the time remaining is greatly reduced as evidenced by the prophetic events foretold long ago. We are witnessing the fulfillment of catastrophic events foretold. Events that will mark the end of this old dying world (of man). Soon "the great tribulation" will be upon us and when it's finally here - it might be too late to act.

Scripture says: “for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.” (Matthew 24:21-22)

So we must act now and learn what God's will is so that we will be counted as one of the survivors when this old system finally ends. Also we should do all what we can to help the people in Japan, no matter how small - it helps. A prayer for them is a good start. My Christian brothers worldwide are doing this right now in material but more importantly in a spiritual way. They are storing up "treasures in heaven" by helping others.

Lastly - a promise from Jehovah God, what he will do in the future:

“With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning or outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” (Revelation 21:3-4)

“As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.” (1 Corinthians 15:26)

No more sadness, nor tears nor pain nor death be anymore - the things we are witnessing will pass away, a thing of the past and will never be called to mind as true life will finally be realized.

So what do you think? Is this something to look forward to? Is there a silver lining?

Well 'hope to see you in the new earth - a paradise earth.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/09594fe99376.jpg[/atsimg]

What’s your thought?

Ciao,

edmc2

Not going in for all the Bible stuff, but yes there is a silver lining. Every time a tragedy happens, whether accidental/natural or intentional depopulation/Illuminati terrorism people come together, support each other, open their hearts. Love is more powerful than fear and love will be triumphant, regardless of a person's beliefs.

reply to post by edmc^2


My thought is Jehovah's Witness in the H.I.Z.O.U.S.E

hehehe J/k

Of course this was all foretold in the Bible I think most people that have any common sense can see that. Problem is people been hearing about this sort of thing for generations and so people are starting to not believe in its validitity and understandably so considering what most of them have gone through. Meaning most people are raised on Entertainment as you well know and that causes an enormous amount of attention deficit disorder away from a lot of the more important growth areas in life which can only be taught through observation of any particular kind of situation but through a cleaner lense you might say. Starting with a mother and a father being attentive towards the childs needs for growing and learning. That is hard to find. Oh I know I know a lot of witnesses think they are far superior in this aspect because a lot of them shelter their children which as you can see in your own congregational history that is not working either. Perhaps we were meant to make mistakes but it is how we learn and grow from them that is most important to God. The true nature of our hearts cannot be discovered until we accept our potential place among society. But if that is true then how do I keep working at a labor dead end job and keep my true desires to explore and live a more fullfilled life suppressed? (Not that I work at Walmart hehehe never have just good example) Anyways I think its in every choice we make that makes us either on track or off track, and that can only be heart felt. But hey who am I to say? That's just what I feel when I pray.

reply to post by edmc^2


Nope, no silver lining. The only positives things that will come from these tragedies are technologies developed to prevent such tragedies from happening again.

Just another few big earthquakes, they happen all the time. They're tragedies, but they're not out of the ordinary.

reply to post by iLoGiCViZiOnS


Since you’ve mentioned it, note the following prophetic events – notice how the attitudes of people during what the Bible calls the “last days”:

"But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. 6 For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth. (2 Tim 3:1-7)


So it’s not a surprise to any bible student.

As for superiority – anyone who thinks of himself superior is a dreamer and lying to himself for no one is perfect. In fact he is called in the scripture as someone who is “puffed up with pride” – a smoke. So if you meet someone who thinks he is one – tell him he is a smoke.

(sadly sometimes I have to remind myself about it - shows how imperfect we are)

The true nature of our hearts cannot be discovered until we accept our potential place among society. But if that is true then how do I keep working at a labor dead end job and keep my true desires to explore and live a more fullfilled life suppressed?

Interesting comment – but I say that society as a whole is not a good place to discover our hearts – in fact it’s a source of much heartache and disappointments. Instead take heed of these wise words:

“Stop storing up for yourselves treasures upon the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break in and steal. Rather, store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” (Matthew 6:19-21)

If your heart is right with the Creator then the future is bright.

Ciao,
edmc2

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Nope, no silver lining. The only positives things that will come from these tragedies are technologies developed to prevent such tragedies from happening again.

Just another few big earthquakes, they happen all the time. They're tragedies, but they're not out of the ordinary.

Sadly technology although great has its limits and most of all unable to cope against the forces of nature. In fact it becomes a liability instead of a protection especially when we put our full trust on it.

As evidenced by this tragic event (nuclear) technology is now becoming the source of great anguish on top of the already difficult circumstances. And as we go deeper and deeper into what the Bible calls “ the last days of the system things”, we will witness and see more of these extra ordinary events.

And no – imho these events are not “ordinary” as they have not occurred before. In fact, when was the last time a 9.0 earthquake was recorded and how many more of these “great earthquakes “are out there? I wish technology will be able to predict. But as it appears we are fighting against time. And if as you say this earthquake is ordinary, why is the intensity and magnitude trending up? So to treat these events as ordinary imho is to close ones eyes to the fact that the Bible is correct.

Thus the only hope for mankind is to listen to what it says, for it’s the reason why it exists. To give us guidance on what we must do in these “last days”. Those who continue to put full trust on man’s imperfect technology will be greatly disappointed. But those who put their trust on God’s word will benefit themselves – especially in the time that we are in. In fact as these things occur, our faith and trust in God becomes stronger day by day.

Your choice to keep on believing that there’s no God and that these things are just part of life and will go on until life ends. Or start believing that there’s a Creator who will eventually put a stop to all of these catastrophic events and fulfill his promise to return the earth to its original purpose.

thanks for the comment.

Ciao,
edmc2

reply to post by edmc^2


I find it extremely tasteless to take advantage of tragedies to further your own missionary obsessions.

You could have cut down your un-necessarily long, over-embellished and basically non-sense sermon to:

"What did we tell you?"

and still have this little inner glow of being righteous.

Not that this would have been any more convincing, but at least you would have played with true colours, instead of this piece of repetitive propaganda-clichées.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by edmc^2

 

I find it extremely tasteless to take advantage of tragedies to further your own missionary obsessions.

You could have cut down your un-necessarily long, over-embellished and basically non-sense sermon to:

"What did we tell you?"

and still have this little inner glow of being righteous.

Not that this would have been any more convincing, but at least you would have played with true colours, instead of this piece of repetitive propaganda-clichées.

I can't help you if you find it tasteless to offer hope and assurance in times of need and trouble. As it is there's so much bad news out there and to offer a glimps of hope to those in need of hope is the right thing to do.

If you think this is a propaganda then so be it if offers hope to those in need. But as a student of the scripture - I'm instructed to do what I'm told to do - tell the world that there's light at the end of the tunnel. If it helps even one soul then I've done my duty.

As for self righteousness - I'm but a mere slave - made of dust and prone to error. I'm constantly reminded of my inferiority by my mistakes. But the words I'm saying are not mine - up to you to believe them or not bogomil.

I only pray though that in times of trouble such as now - we open our eyes to what is important - life and start dusting off the dust and read the pages of the scriptures.

But if you can offer hope to those in need of hope then more power to you and I fully support you in that endeavor. But why the hatred?

Instead of encouragement - its a pull down you offer. May I know what's your message to those who are suffering?

ciao,
edmc2

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by edmc^2

 

I find it extremely tasteless to take advantage of tragedies to further your own missionary obsessions.

You could have cut down your un-necessarily long, over-embellished and basically non-sense sermon to:

"What did we tell you?"

and still have this little inner glow of being righteous.

Not that this would have been any more convincing, but at least you would have played with true colours, instead of this piece of repetitive propaganda-clichées.

After thinking about what you said and what I said in the OP - I'm sad to say this bogomil - whoever you are but shame on you.

In addition to thousands of lives lost just learned that I lost more than a hundred of my brothers and sisters in this tragedy in Japan.

reply to post by edmc^2


I wanted to point out one thing. The last time a 9.0ish earthquake hit? Well...it was 2010. Before that? 2005. Before that one? 2004. Odd thing being that 2 of those three were in the 'ring of fire', the most tectonically active region in the world.

Here's a list of the 10 most powerful earthquakes since 1900

Tectonic activity will continue. The only thing we're doing is getting better at measuring it.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by edmc^2

 

I wanted to point out one thing. The last time a 9.0ish earthquake hit? Well...it was 2010. Before that? 2005. Before that one? 2004. Odd thing being that 2 of those three were in the 'ring of fire', the most tectonically active region in the world.

Here's a list of the 10 most powerful earthquakes since 1900

Tectonic activity will continue. The only thing we're doing is getting better at measuring it.

Thanks for pointing this out madness - it's a confirmation of what I said on another thread a while back:

Here's part of what I posted:

“There will be great earthquakes” (Luke 21:11)

Not just earthquakes but “great earthquakes”. Is this true? What are the facts? Make a comparison before and after 1914. How many “great earthquakes” occurred before 1914 and at what rate and intensity? After 1914 what do the facts show? ATS has some great statistics of earthquakes which confirms the fact that since 1914 earthquakes around the world are ever increasing in great number with great intensity and magnitude. Is there any other time that this was/is true?

ciao,
edmc2

Double posting

reply to post by edmc^2


You wrote:

["I can't help you if you find it tasteless to offer hope and assurance in times of need and trouble."]

I didn't ask for your help.

Quote: ["If you think this is a propaganda then so be it if offers hope to those in need."]

You see it as 'offering hope', I see it as capitalizing.

Quote: ["But as a student of the scripture - I'm instructed to do what I'm told to do - tell the world that there's light at the end of the tunnel. If it helps even one soul then I've done my duty."]

You're saying, that you just 'follow orders', so you have only 'free will' to a small extent. Any alleged 'god' having this power to reduce people to almost automatons, should consequently take the responsibility associated with this power and dynamically counteract catastrophes.

Quote: ["As for self righteousness - I'm but a mere slave - made of dust and prone to error."]

So what you're a slave of is then self-righteous.

Quote: ["But if you can offer hope to those in need of hope then more power to you and I fully support you in that endeavor."]

Yes, I can. I can support a system, which can cooperate enough (liberal society) to increase knowledge to understand our environment better (science), and create various kinds of REAL help, when catastrophes happen (technology).

If you guys want to stay in the background and mumble your prayers in the belief, that it'll make any difference...fine with me. Just don't interfere in real life.

Quote: ["But why the hatred?"]

Call it disgust instead. If my guess based on your cute holy picture is correct, you're associated with JW. Don't you people deny dying children bloodtransfusions? Or is this from the past.

Quote: ["Instead of encouragement - its a pull down you offer. May I know what's your message to those who are suffering?"]

It's a pull-down according to YOUR absolutes. You already have all the pre-determined answers, so you're right, because you're right.

But OK, my 'answer': Think and act for yourself.

Should I ever be forced to play the role of guru or missionary (D-g forbid it), and even worse, imply some religion in this, I would say: Become buddhists or something. Anything apart from fanatic christianity.

reply to post by bogomil


I'm sorry if you feel that way bogomil but there's so much hatred and sadness in the world. I hope that you use that anger in helping others to overcome any sadness in thier life.

On this I leave you this bright future that God has promise:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/09594fe99376.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by edmc^2


...and I'm just pointing out that 'great earthquakes' have always happened and they will continue to happen. They're a constant, not something abnormal.

reply to post by edmc^2


You wrote:

["I'm sorry if you feel that way bogomil but there's so much hatred and sadness in the world. I hope that you use that anger in helping others to overcome any sadness in thier life."]

You present a message, which only is meaningful for you and likeminded. This message contains in itself aspirations of exclusivity and monopoly, and when varieties of said system have had strong influence on society, the results have been catastrophic. As often as not extremist christianities have committed open and dictatorial physical violence, they have taken it upon themselves to suppress any kind of medical practise, opposition is censored, etc.

Women and children have been, and still are occasionally, considered property or secondclass human beings.

Minority groups have been exposed to atrocities, justified with christian doctrines.

So spare me the sanctimoneous sugar-coating, where MY protests are the 'anger of the unenlightened', who without reason criticise your self-appointed holy good-guy absolutes.

Your new-age like tactics of 'holier-than-you' smugness doesn't fool anyone except the saved, so to keep the whole system alive, the christianities are stooping to bribe people into convertion, because most western. educated people increasingly aren't buying your non-sense.

You always have the option of REAL communication, instead of semantic propaganda maneuvers. So instead of scholastically trying to turn black into white, you can relate directly to some central points in my posts.

PS People involved in or related to catastrophes don't need candy-floss fantasies. They need blankets, medicines, shelters, fresh water, hospitals, food. So posting your Disneyland-in-the-sky picture twice only adds to the cynical arrogance.

You present a message, which only is meaningful for you and likeminded. This message contains in itself aspirations of exclusivity and monopoly, and when varieties of said system have had strong influence on society, the results have been catastrophic. As often as not extremist christianities have committed open and dictatorial physical violence, they have taken it upon themselves to suppress any kind of medical practise, opposition is censored, etc.

-- I hope you're not saying that all Christians are as you say "extremist christianities", for although there are groups that profess to be Christians are extremist on their point of view there are on the other hand Christians who are of the same caliber as the first century Christians - true followers of Christ who are willing to sacrifice anything for their love of God and fellow man. They rather lose their precious lives rather than kill or maim their fellow man.

Tell me please bogomil, if you really know your history, were there any true Christians that were brutally persecuted, imprisoned and even executed during the first and second world war and even today?

Instead of saluting or just saying "heil" to Hitler - they choose to be treated in the most inhumane way so as not to violate their God trained concience - to obey and love God and their fellowman.

Jehovah's Witnesses were subjected to intense persecution under the Nazi regime. The Nazis targeted Jehovah's Witnesses because they were unwilling to accept the authority of the state, because of their international connections, and because they were strongly opposed to both war on behalf of a temporal authority and organized government in matters of conscience.

www.ushmm.org...

Because of their conscientious objection to participation in military service, whether armed or unarmed, Jehovah's Witnesses have often faced imprisonment or other penalties. In Greece, for example, before the introduction of alternative civilian service in 1997, hundreds of Witnesses were imprisoned, some for three years or even more for their refusal. In Armenia, young Jehovah's Witnesses have been imprisoned (and remain in prison) because of their conscientious objection to military service. The government of South Korea also imprisons hundreds for refusing the draft. In Switzerland, virtually every Jehovah's Witness is exempted from military service. The Finnish government exempts Jehovah's Witnesses from the draft completely...

en.wikipedia.org...

I'm sure other Christian groups have the same experienced such as the above. But tell me this please bogomil - will you condemn these true Christians for not participating in such war efforts? Or do wished they joined their fellow country men and their political leaders in the propaganda?

Soon the world will be swept again in nationalistic fervor - all will be urge to join on this sentiment. Which side do you think should true Christians stand with?

Should true Christian join those who are protesting against the government, should they become extremist and try to change the laws of the land? Show they even mingle in the political affairs of the land? Or should they be sharing the "Good News of God's Kingdom" with their neighbors? Tell me please bogomil - how does a Christian act or react if they are being force to compromise their faith? Will they pick up arms in times of war? What must they do in times tragedy?

If it seems to you that helping your fellow man is "self righteous" then it is sad.

Women and children have been, and still are occasionally, considered property or secondclass human beings.

Minority groups have been exposed to atrocities, justified with christian doctrines.

We are the minority in comparison to other groups. Interesting thing is we are the objects of atrocities for upholding the laws of God as well as man. Treated as second class.

I remember a story by an older sister who said that they were "tarred and feathered" during the 60' here in the United States of America for not participating in the war efforts.

Just an example:

United StatesIn the United States, numerous cases involving Jehovah's Witnesses are now landmark decisions of First Amendment law. In all, Jehovah's Witnesses brought 23 separate First Amendment actions before the U.S. Supreme Court between 1938 and 1946. U.S. Supreme Court Associate Justice Harlan Fiske Stone once quipped, "I think the Jehovah's Witnesses ought to have an endowment in view of the aid which they give in solving the legal problems of civil liberties."[12]

The most important U.S. Supreme Court legal victory won by the Witnesses was in the case West Virginia State Board of Education vs. Barnette, in which the court ruled that school children could not be forced to pledge allegiance to or salute the U.S. flag. The Barnette decision overturned an earlier case, Minersville School District vs. Gobitis (1940), in which the court had held that Witnesses could be forced against their will to pay homage to the flag.

The fighting words doctrine was established by Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (1942). In that case, a Jehovah's Witness had reportedly told a New Hampshire town marshal who was attempting to prevent him from preaching "You are a damned racketeer" and "a damned fascist" and was arrested. The court upheld the arrest, thus establishing that "insulting or 'fighting words', those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace" are among the "well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech [which] the prevention and punishment of...have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem."

In a more recent case, Jehovah's Witnesses refused to get government permits to solicit door-to-door in Stratton, Ohio. In 2002, the case was heard in the U.S. Supreme Court (Watchtower Society v. Village of Stratton — 536 U.S. 150 (2002)). The Court ruled in favor of the Jehovah's Witnesses, holding that making it a misdemeanor (to engage in door-to-door advocacy without first registering with the mayor and receiving a permit) violates the first Amendment as it applies to religious proselytizing, anonymous political speech, and the distribution of handbills.

Because of these uncompromising stand this minority group has assured the rights of the the many.

I can also cite the Hutu and Tutsi massacre but it's very painful to recount the events of how true Christians were raped and gave up their lives because their neighbor asked to hide them from the other tribe.

Here are latest report worldwide

So spare me the sanctimoneous sugar-coating, where MY protests are the 'anger of the unenlightened', who without reason criticise your self-appointed holy good-guy absolutes.

I'm sorry if see it that way, but I'm nothing nor righteous but a sinner. It's by following my Lord and Leader Jesus Christ that gives me the courage to stand erect and not be pummeled and condemned by my own imperfect conscience and past mistakes. As imperfect as I am - I constantly struggle to keep up with the fight with the fallen flesh. So if you think that I'm "self-appointed holy good-guy absolutes", you are gravely mistaken.

Your new-age like tactics of 'holier-than-you' smugness doesn't fool anyone except the saved, so to keep the whole system alive, the christianities are stooping to bribe people into convertion, because most western. educated people increasingly aren't buying your non-sense.

Noone is forcing anyone to convert but to reason. In fact it's your choice not to even participate in this conversation, but the "Good News" is for all. It's up to the individual to believe it or not.

You always have the option of REAL communication, instead of semantic propaganda maneuvers. So instead of scholastically trying to turn black into white, you can relate directly to some central points in my posts.

Like what I said - the "Good News" is open to all - to quote the scriptures:

A command to all who are professing to be Christians:

“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14)

“. . .And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”” (Matthew 28:18-20)

PS People involved in or related to catastrophes don't need candy-floss fantasies. They need blankets, medicines, shelters, fresh water, hospitals, food. So posting your Disneyland-in-the-sky picture twice only adds to the cynical arrogance.

No, "People involved in or related to catastrophes" need hope and assurance that there's a light at the end of the tunnel. For those who have this hope and not share it is guilty in the eyes of God since they have abandoned their Christian duty to love their fellow man.

In times like these people need hope or else the problems and sadness that is currently enveloping the world will consume the many.

But if you think this just a "semantic propaganda maneuvers" then it's your choice - can't help you on that.

Still I would like to leave you with this simple message - a promise:

“And the wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them. And the cow and the bear themselves will feed; together their young ones will lie down. And even the lion will eat straw just like the bull. And the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra; and upon the light aperture of a poisonous snake will a weaned child actually put his own hand. They will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain; because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the very sea.” (Isaiah 11:6-9)


thanks,
edmc2

reply to post by edmc^2


You wrote:

["I hope you're not saying that all Christians are as you say "extremist christianities", for although there are groups that profess to be Christians are extremist on their point of view there are on the other hand Christians who are of the same caliber as the first century Christians"]

No, ofcourse not. Christians come in different varieties as anything else does. I refer to 'extremist' as those who carry their opposition/competition with alternative systems of 'truth/reality'-searching to the point of invasive methods, or to those who want special priviliges in a society-context (which e.g. includes egalitarian rights of children, women, animal or minorities).

Quote: ["...caliber as the first century Christians - true followers of Christ who are willing to sacrifice anything for their love of God and fellow man. They rather lose their precious lives rather than kill or maim their fellow man."]

If you are a JW, I can only sympathize with this part of your christian denomination's interpretation of scripture and doctrine.

Quote: ["Tell me please bogomil, if you really know your history, were there any true Christians that were brutally persecuted, imprisoned and even executed during the first and second world war and even today?"]

As to what's 'true christians' are, I can't form any conclusive opinions. ATS is filled with claims of being 'true christians', and though I do know religious history in Europe fairly well (and outside Europe less well), this alone doesn't give me a basis. I need a religious/theological basis also, which doesn't exist in any form precise enough to justify anything. There are only interpretations of a confused and self-contradictory book, which even is non-sense compared to comtemporary science (science being one important perspective amongst others).

Quote: ["In Switzerland, virtually every Jehovah's Witness is exempted from military service. The Finnish government exempts Jehovah's Witnesses from the draft completely..."]

The benefits of liberal society, which I strongly support.

Quote: ["Soon the world will be swept again in nationalistic fervor - all will be urge to join on this sentiment. Which side do you think should true Christians stand with?"]

I'm a staunch nationalist, where I apply the same principles as I do on the individual's position inside a liberal nation. Nations considered as individual members of global society, should ascribe other liberal nations' egalitarian rights. As I do not function on terms of absolutes, I can not prematurely predict 'correctness' of position. The possible future constellations are manifold.

Quote: ["Should true Christian join those who are protesting against the government, should they become extremist and try to change the laws of the land? Show they even mingle in the political affairs of the land?"]

Forcibly in a liberal, secular, egalitarian democracy: No. There are always the standard options of political involvment through parliamentary procedures. Even for stamp-collectors.

Quote: ["Or should they be sharing the "Good News of God's Kingdom" with their neighbors?"]

'Sharing' is a much misused propaganda-word. Non-believers usually consider this 'sharing' as 'pushing'. So basically: No, unless your neighbour has invited you.

Quote: ["Tell me please bogomil - how does a Christian act or react if they are being force to compromise their faith?"]

Considering the vagueness of "a christian" in the quote and my inability to define 'christian' precisely, I can only refer to standard attitudes amongst christians on ATS. When exposed to opposition or criticism many of our resident extremists react with aggression, persecution-complexes, megalomania, pseudo-science/logic arguments or occasionally straight lying.

And that's just verbal opposition. No force can be applied here.

Quote: ["If it seems to you that helping your fellow man is "self righteous" then it is sad."]

You have framed the situation into a semantic double-bind, worthless for any real answers. Please refrain from such maneuvers if you want a serious discussion with me.

Quote: [" We are the minority in comparison to other groups. Interesting thing is we are the objects of atrocities for upholding the laws of God as well as man. Treated as second class."]

You never related to my question on blood-transfusion on very ill children. In my book children are not property, you can expose to religious choices between continuing living in a mundane world or go 'pure' to heaven. Such choices are for adults.

Quote: ["I remember a story by an older sister who said that they were "tarred and feathered" during the 60' here in the United States of America for not participating in the war efforts."]

If it's any consolation, I consider the US version of democracy as rather fragile concerning parliamentary procedures.

Quote: [" Because of these uncompromising stand this minority group has assured the rights of the the many"]

Commendable, if it doesn't lead to any claims of privilege.

Quote: ["I'm sorry if see it that way, but I'm nothing nor righteous but a sinner."]

Being a sinner or not is for you to decide. The argument as such has no relevance for me, except that 'sinners' also can be untolerable in s societal context. The flagellants of certain christian denominations can be a pest, where the 'holier-than-you' just is expressed as a hierarchy attitude with inverted values.

Quote: ["nothing nor righteous but a sinner. It's by following my Lord and Leader Jesus Christ that gives me the courage to stand erect and not be pummeled and condemned by my own imperfect conscience and past mistakes. As imperfect as I am - I constantly struggle to keep up with the fight with the fallen flesh."]

Fine for you, and I would defend your right to have this direction in life.

Quote: ["So if you think that I'm "self-appointed holy good-guy absolutes", you are gravely mistaken."]

You are presenting your religion, its source and its doctrines as absolutes.

Quote: ["Noone is forcing anyone to convert but to reason. In fact it's your choice not to even participate in this conversation, but the "Good News" is for all. It's up to the individual to believe it or not."]

I happen to call it 'the bad news', which also is for all. If you join a public debate forum, debate is what you get.

Quote: ["No, "People involved in or related to catastrophes" need hope and assurance that there's a light at the end of the tunnel. For those who have this hope and not share it is guilty in the eyes of God since they have abandoned their Christian duty to love their fellow man."]

There are 34.000 christian 'lights at the end of the tunnel' and it would be suitable to concentrate on the mundane help first. Then you guys can debate, who are the true christians later and distribute your various lights. Besides ATS is a peculiar place to bring such messages. How many victims or victim-related people do you think read this? Go do some REAL help somewhere instead of preaching about it here.

Quote: ["But if you think this just a "semantic propaganda maneuvers" then it's your choice - can't help you on that."]

Neither have I asked for or need any help.

For the rest...preaching is wasted on me. Do something more useful, if you want to spread your message.

But you made an effort of real communication, which is more than many of the other christians here do. For this an applaud (if an applaud from me is worth anything). Though you could have related a bit more to your own topic and to my responses instead of the circumstantial pacifist talk (I'm a pacifist myself btw).