reply to post by edmc^2
["I hope you're not saying that all Christians are as you say "extremist christianities", for although there are groups that profess to be
Christians are extremist on their point of view there are on the other hand Christians who are of the same caliber as the first century
No, ofcourse not. Christians come in different varieties as anything else does. I refer to 'extremist' as those who carry their
opposition/competition with alternative systems of 'truth/reality'-searching to the point of invasive methods, or to those who want special
priviliges in a society-context (which e.g. includes egalitarian rights of children, women, animal or minorities).
Quote: ["...caliber as the first century Christians - true followers of Christ who are willing to sacrifice anything for their love of God and fellow
man. They rather lose their precious lives rather than kill or maim their fellow man."]
If you are a JW, I can only sympathize with this part of your christian denomination's interpretation of scripture and doctrine.
Quote: ["Tell me please bogomil, if you really know your history, were there any true Christians that were brutally persecuted, imprisoned and even
executed during the first and second world war and even today?"]
As to what's 'true christians' are, I can't form any conclusive opinions. ATS is filled with claims of being 'true christians', and though I do
know religious history in Europe fairly well (and outside Europe less well), this alone doesn't give me a basis. I need a religious/theological basis
also, which doesn't exist in any form precise enough to justify anything. There are only interpretations of a confused and self-contradictory book,
which even is non-sense compared to comtemporary science (science being one important perspective amongst others).
Quote: ["In Switzerland, virtually every Jehovah's Witness is exempted from military service. The Finnish government exempts Jehovah's Witnesses
from the draft completely..."]
The benefits of liberal society, which I strongly support.
Quote: ["Soon the world will be swept again in nationalistic fervor - all will be urge to join on this sentiment. Which side do you think should true
Christians stand with?"]
I'm a staunch nationalist, where I apply the same principles as I do on the individual's position inside a liberal nation. Nations considered as
individual members of global society, should ascribe other liberal nations' egalitarian rights. As I do not function on terms of absolutes, I can not
prematurely predict 'correctness' of position. The possible future constellations are manifold.
Quote: ["Should true Christian join those who are protesting against the government, should they become extremist and try to change the laws of the
land? Show they even mingle in the political affairs of the land?"]
Forcibly in a liberal, secular, egalitarian democracy: No. There are always the standard options of political involvment through parliamentary
procedures. Even for stamp-collectors.
Quote: ["Or should they be sharing the "Good News of God's Kingdom" with their neighbors?"]
'Sharing' is a much misused propaganda-word. Non-believers usually consider this 'sharing' as 'pushing'. So basically: No, unless your neighbour
has invited you.
Quote: ["Tell me please bogomil - how does a Christian act or react if they are being force to compromise their faith?"]
Considering the vagueness of "a christian" in the quote and my inability to define 'christian' precisely, I can only refer to standard attitudes
amongst christians on ATS. When exposed to opposition or criticism many of our resident extremists react with aggression, persecution-complexes,
megalomania, pseudo-science/logic arguments or occasionally straight lying.
And that's just verbal opposition. No force can be applied here.
Quote: ["If it seems to you that helping your fellow man is "self righteous" then it is sad."]
You have framed the situation into a semantic double-bind, worthless for any real answers. Please refrain from such maneuvers if you want a serious
discussion with me.
Quote: [" We are the minority in comparison to other groups. Interesting thing is we are the objects of atrocities for upholding the laws of God as
well as man. Treated as second class."]
You never related to my question on blood-transfusion on very ill children. In my book children are not property, you can expose to religious choices
between continuing living in a mundane world or go 'pure' to heaven. Such choices are for adults.
Quote: ["I remember a story by an older sister who said that they were "tarred and feathered" during the 60' here in the United States of America
for not participating in the war efforts."]
If it's any consolation, I consider the US version of democracy as rather fragile concerning parliamentary procedures.
Quote: [" Because of these uncompromising stand this minority group has assured the rights of the the many"]
Commendable, if it doesn't lead to any claims of privilege.
Quote: ["I'm sorry if see it that way, but I'm nothing nor righteous but a sinner."]
Being a sinner or not is for you to decide. The argument as such has no relevance for me, except that 'sinners' also can be untolerable in s
societal context. The flagellants of certain christian denominations can be a pest, where the 'holier-than-you' just is expressed as a hierarchy
attitude with inverted values.
Quote: ["nothing nor righteous but a sinner. It's by following my Lord and Leader Jesus Christ that gives me the courage to stand erect and not be
pummeled and condemned by my own imperfect conscience and past mistakes. As imperfect as I am - I constantly struggle to keep up with the fight with
the fallen flesh."]
Fine for you, and I would defend your right to have this direction in life.
Quote: ["So if you think that I'm "self-appointed holy good-guy absolutes", you are gravely mistaken."]
You are presenting your religion, its source and its doctrines as absolutes.
Quote: ["Noone is forcing anyone to convert but to reason. In fact it's your choice not to even participate in this conversation, but the "Good
News" is for all. It's up to the individual to believe it or not."]
I happen to call it 'the bad news', which also is for all. If you join a public debate forum, debate is what you get.
Quote: ["No, "People involved in or related to catastrophes" need hope and assurance that there's a light at the end of the tunnel. For those who
have this hope and not share it is guilty in the eyes of God since they have abandoned their Christian duty to love their fellow man."]
There are 34.000 christian 'lights at the end of the tunnel' and it would be suitable to concentrate on the mundane help first. Then you guys can
debate, who are the true christians later and distribute your various lights. Besides ATS is a peculiar place to bring such messages. How many victims
or victim-related people do you think read this? Go do some REAL help somewhere instead of preaching about it here.
Quote: ["But if you think this just a "semantic propaganda maneuvers" then it's your choice - can't help you on that."]
Neither have I asked for or need any help.
For the rest...preaching is wasted on me. Do something more useful, if you want to spread your message.
But you made an effort of real communication, which is more than many of the other christians here do. For this an applaud (if an applaud from me is
worth anything). Though you could have related a bit more to your own topic and to my responses instead of the circumstantial pacifist talk (I'm a
pacifist myself btw).