Stop U.S. Military Pay??!?!!??

reply to post by VictorVonDoom


For most countries throughout history the idea that when you give your employees a gun, they expect to be paid. You can easily stop paying a bureaucrat .. a pen pusher, mr. joe schmo in accounting, you can even screw over your intelligence agencies and crime forces ..... but you can't screw over the largest and most mobile army in the World.

History tells us this much anyways..

My sister and brother-in-law are stationed in Germany. He's in the U.S. military and she's a civilian employed by the military. She told me today: "The government runs out of money tomorrow (Thursday), and for 3 months we will not be getting paid. After 3 months, he will get back pay, but I will *not*. Both of our jobs are considered mission essential, and even though I'm a civilian, if I do not show up, then they can send me to jail, so they're expecting me to work for free. I do have the option of quitting, but getting *any* job over here is no small task."

I think she's setting up a facebook charity page because nearly everyone she knows over there is going to be severely affected. As she said, "Housing is covered by the military, but the German cell phone companies aren't going to care that the U.S. military isn't paying their soldiers."

She also said that they've already gotten rid of non-essential civilians employed by the military, and soldiers are now having to work those jobs as well (also without pay). Soldiers will be working in the comissary, so now, after all the training and experience they've received, some of them will now be store clerks.

i cannot even fathom the fact that people are saying we deserve this.
my husband and i are both in the military, im sorry but it is a job. just like working at #ing mc donalds.
some jobs are harder yes, but its still job none the less, those of you that cannot understand that should keep your traps shut, we have families just like civilians do, how would you like it if your employer just stopped paying you yet still expects you to come to work?

put your ignorant feet in our boots and tell me how it feels.

It happened for a two payday period in 1980 if i remember right, when the govt "shutdown" due to no bill being passed, the military did not get paid. Since then "contingency bills" have been enacted to prevent that.

The military will get paid. Some things may be shut down, civilians furloughed temporarily. However active duty military will get paid just like in previous "shutdowns" since the 1980 fiasco.

reply to post by Zamini


lewman, yup the military sure does eat,,, those oh so delicious MREs And as far as the starving general public, that is because they are deadbeats just like their parents probably not Soldiers like my self. You say this country is like North Korea I call bullSH!t. North Koreans are not able to work due to not being able to find a ride the 60 miles to where they work. Not like Americans that would rather collect a check while setting on their third point of contact

reply to post by bg_socalif


ALSO IN 95

Text LimeGreenTextTextreply to post by FriedrichNeecher



holy crap I agree with Pinkgomo653 about this FriedrichNeecher guy. He needs to go back to playing his call of duty online asking his mom to bring him more koolaid down to the basement and true Soldiers like my self will protect that right for his ungreatfull A$$

Thanks for nothing FRED
p.s. TRY PICKING UP AN ARMY TIMES NEWS PAPER

Hmm....

This is going to be a security nightmare.

People often forget what a service member is - human. While I can't speak for everyone, it would be highly exceptional to find a person in uniform fighting to defend you. The average service member doesn't know you and your disposition is rather inconsequential to him/her - to be blunt. What the average service member does care about, though, is his/her friends and family.

This is merely the practicality of it. The most romanticized thing that we may fight for is some ideology of what we believe our country could/should be. When you get right down to it - we do what we do to put food on the table and make our families happy and life enjoyable. Since we deal with weapons - some of which very powerful, and technology - some of which quite secret, we are generally treated quite well by the people who want us on their side (the tax payer and, sometimes, even Congress and our frat-party president).

The problem is when you get a break-down of that job security. There just now may open a huge market for secrets and contingencies on the information exchange market - other countries would be glad to ease the economic woes of people in uniform in exchange for bits and pieces of the bigger pictures they seek.

I know we all want to sit there and paint a rosy picture of the military services, but the fact is that we have our concerns as well, and things that must be attended to. People who, otherwise, would never consider "selling out their nation" now become open to the idea of "saving their family" - even though it's the same act, the rationale behind it is completely different, as is the price. Greed - for all its ills - comes at a high price. Desperation is cheap.

I would advise that our congress figure it out. While I'm not exactly afraid of a government shutdown - it would seem there's a considerable oversight, here. You can only expect the military to last so long as a full-time volunteer force before things start to get a little chaotic.

reply to post by SOLDIERNOTMERCENARY


HAH

You are definately not suspicious at all, mr. Robot.

You know what they say...if you're stupid enough to join the army...

Originally posted by SOLDIERNOTMERCENARY
reply to post by bg_socalif

 

ALSO IN 95

Yes, it happened in 95 and 96 also, but we got paid. I was active duty then also. We went thru the same hysteria that's happening now. That's why they have contingency bills since the 1980 fiasco, so our troops don't miss a paycheck.

I am shocked and amazed by the response just one question has been giving. I am surprised as an american how quickly we turn not just one each other, but the whole military? They don't deserved to be paid because they signed up to defend our country? This is a time where we should all be standing together because NO ONE should have to go without being paid! My husband is a proud service member. He joined to defend his country. And if tomorrow they stop his pay, yeah he will complain and be very upset. He will threaten not going to work, and why should he? Who should work for free? However, he will wake up at 430 the next morning and put on the uniform he wears with pride and continue to fight for the country he believes in. Most of the military people I know would. I can't help but wonder why though? What is he fighting for? A bunch of ignorant people who do not know nor understand what they go through? A government who is only looking out for themselves as individuals instead of the nation that we are supposed to be? I am PROUD to be an American! I am PROUD of our service men and women! I may not agree with the government 90% of the time but, I hold my head up high when i hear the anthem and I support our troops with all of my heart and soul. If you don't maybe your in the wrong country and you should keep your negative, unamerican comments to yourself.

reply to post by StillProud

I am PROUD to be an American!

Are you also proud to be ignorant?

I am PROUD of our service men and women!

Wow, you are proud of a lot of things, maybe you are too proud.

I may not agree with the government 90% of the time but, I hold my head up high when i hear the anthem and I support our troops with all of my heart and soul.

Like a good little drone would, even though the leaders are pillaging from you, you obey them like good little drones. And it's not because you don't understand they are abusing you, no you understand that perfectly fine, but because you hear a melody that you've been indoctrinated with pretty much since birth. OF COURSE you are going to feel that way, but ask yourself WHY? Why have so many been manipulated in such a way? Is the majority of humanity still in the REALLY dumb tribal phase?

If you don't maybe your in the wrong country and you should keep your negative, unamerican

Wrong country? Maybe YOU white Europeans are in the wrong country, I don't know, just saying...

And I'm glad I don't live in the US with ignorant people surrounding me 24/7. And this coming from a person who has the chance to live there. I don't feel like being told I'm in the wrong country because I like to USE MY BRAIN.

Someone has to be firm to people like yourself.

reply to post by Zamini

Are you also proud to be ignorant?

I'm sure you're here as the voice of enlightenment.

Someone has to be firm to people like yourself.

... Nope - just the ignoramus on the other side of the isle.

Why have so many been manipulated in such a way?

Because they are, obviously, quite dumb.

Is the majority of humanity still in the REALLY dumb tribal phase?

Hey, take it easy on them - they are being manipulated, can't you see?

Yes - my statements were made the way they were, intentionally, to illustrate a point.

OF COURSE you are going to feel that way, but ask yourself WHY?

Simply because someone is proud to be part of the nation does not make them a drone.

Everyone puts their own subjective belief into what this country is. Some passionately wave the flag and sing songs of American glory while pushing for government control over healthcare and many other consumer markets.

When I think of America - I think of the idea that people are capable and even liable/responsible for self-governance. It's not just a right - it's inherent to being that you take responsibility for yourself and make sensible decisions within your community (which you are going to have, unless you are a hermit). The concept of government control over everything is completely incompatible with the way I would like to live, and the way I interpret our country's founding. I'd put a bullet into the above-mentioned type of person if it became necessary - even though we both wave the same flag and sing the same songs. The similarities end there.

In either case - to base the issue of military pay off of such fickle things as human beliefs and concepts of a nation is entirely ignorant of the material and real-world implications of decisions regarding military pay. For the time being - I'm not putting bullets into socialists - regardless of why soldiers have joined, or why we look up to them - they are entrusted with a number of responsibilities and come into contact with a number of sensitive technologies, documents, etc. I may think of America differently than your typical socialist ideologue - discussing those differences only leads to dissent and death of said socialist - but a discussion of what happens when pay is cut to people who are responsible for handling nuclear weapons, top secret technology, federal employee records (and classified documents), etc can be focused on what is real and measurable.

And this coming from a person who has the chance to live there.

This is coming from someone who does live here.

People are stupid no matter where you go. Generally why I don't like them or consider the vast majority worthy of sentient classification. This makes me something of an elitist, and I can come off as a prick quite often. Not that it's a huge concern - I find it irritating when people find my volume of thought difficult to follow, usually - so it's best to keep people at an arm's distance and not expect much out of them.

I don't feel like being told I'm in the wrong country because I like to USE MY BRAIN.

I wouldn't waste the effort. The use of this "brain" doesn't seem to have any appreciable effect. Suggested you update to the newest point-release of your drone software.

reply to post by Aim64C

Simply because someone is proud to be part of the nation does not make them a drone.

Ever questioned what it is one can be proud of? Really think about it. Then think about what you know about pride and what it leads to. Then come and tell me it does not make one a drone. Do you have any idea about the number of people who just say this proud-to-be-bull do it to 1. not get lynched by angry mobs and 2. not to lose face?

Everyone puts their own subjective belief into what this country is. Some passionately wave the flag and sing songs of American glory while pushing for government control over healthcare and many other consumer markets.

Fair enough, just like the Catholic priest who condemns this and that then goes to abuse kids. He abuses his own values and so does the American-glory marketing researcher. Got it.

Hey, take it easy on them - they are being manipulated, can't you see?

It was a genuine question because the answer has huge implications for those who can see it. MAJOR implications.

but a discussion of what happens when pay is cut to people who are responsible for handling nuclear weapons, top secret technology, federal employee records (and classified documents), etc can be focused on what is real and measurable.

Great. So what do you think if the US would cut pay. Would said workers be lured into working for private-armies to, for example(and quite random), to protect Nike from Chinese union workers(like the Chinese would have unions I know)? This is hypothetical but I'm wondering how long before multinationals get their hands on private armies.

I wouldn't waste the effort. The use of this "brain" doesn't seem to have any appreciable effect. Suggested you update to the newest point-release of your drone software.

What if the newest point-release is infacted with malware and spyware? Still beats the brain?

reply to post by Pinkgomo653


I too have bearing rumors to that, Pinkgomo653, but no real evidence. I would say, and not in an offhand manner, that if the military, and social security recipients do not get their pay, there will be hell to pay for the government. I cannot think of anything that would make the States secede from the corporate government faster than that.

reply to post by Zamini

So what do you think if the US would cut pay.

There's a considerable difference between cutting pay and stopping pay.

Would said workers be lured into working for private-armies to, for example(and quite random), to protect Nike from Chinese union workers(like the Chinese would have unions I know)?

A rather unlikely scenario. One need only look at what happened to the military of the USSR through its collapse. Military hardware will end up being sold to various bidders. Technical workers will get scooped up by foreign governments that would like to have experienced personnel aiding in their program development, as well as foreign private firms.

You would probably see formations of entirely new PMCs, as opposed to existing ones absorbing a large percentage of the workers. Most commands are fairly self-sufficient and could easily continue operating (under a different mission statement, of course) following the initial attrition of personnel and the security of another funding source.

Our military has some highly advanced capabilities that are never put to use, though they are highly marketable. The country would actually do well, financially, to merc-out the military. It is actually a model of operation that I support, and would not mind seeing in our own military - provided certain restrictions on our contracts.

This is hypothetical but I'm wondering how long before multinationals get their hands on private armies.

Oh, it'd be chaos. Not everyone in the military is going to react the same way.

However, the majority will end up harnessing what made America great - when it has been great - entrepreneur. We make things dead that other people don't want to be alive - among other things (that don't involve killing people but making sure it is understood that those who get out of line will be dealt with). There suddenly become a bunch of people -formerly- employed in operating, maintaining, and securing our various arsenals.

I'm sure a lot of them employed in the nuclear segment will do the honorable thing and make sure fissile warheads are dismantled and disposed of to prevent that sort of nonsense getting in some overzealous button-masher's hands.

But the real interesting thing comes from the marketability of "JDAM on Demand" - You can blow up a factory next to a school and just scare the kids. From a B-2. Flights of B-2s and B-52s could be akin to the UPS man... slightly different concept.

Of course - a few trained professionals with C-4 bricks would probably be more reasonably priced for low-risk structures that do not employ private security of their own.

It was a genuine question because the answer has huge implications for those who can see it. MAJOR implications.

And what implications would those be?

Humans are such interesting creatures. We embrace our own self-centered ideals of peace whole-heartedly and have the audacity to expect placid and stagnant relations surrounded by a world representative of change and conflict from the very laws of thermodynamics to the ecosystems on this rock we call home.

I called this a lot earlier...

www.abovetopsecret.com...