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Exploring Fukushima Plant - Stuxnet Connections

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posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by SirMike
 


A lot of people seem to disagree with you, do you have some proof ? Something showing the plant diagrams and computer systems at fukushima? according to Tepco's own information the plant systems were upgraded and a number of analysts think that even if the valves themselves could not be intercepted the information being sent back and forth between the control could be .

Now honestly I would love to disprove the sabotage by stuxnet theory but evidence from a variety of sources ( with computer malfunction not even being necessary in most scenarios ) indicates that a number of items cannot be explained by the circumstance of failure and incompetence alone.

So far I have amassed over two gigabytes of research materials in the last two months in some of the over 876 pages of posts about this event www.abovetopsecret.com... , and any actual information you have would be appreciated , the source code for stuxnet is online anyone can review how it operates , the German Seimens controllers are readily verified are weak links , but almost certainly not the only weak links .

the Magma corporation that installed some of the special cameras at the fukushima plant verified back in the middle of march that they had a pipe line into Tepco's server and could check that data was there ( meaning the isolation of Tepco's systems from the internet is in some considerable doubt)

Now as much as I would like to take your supposition as fact , I cannot I require evidence . Especially to the group of people on that other thread that will eat any unsubstantiated claims alive, especially in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary

and about it not being possible , that is simply naive , anything with automatic controls can be sabotaged especially with a company like Tepco that has a track record of hiring the 'homeless' and unquallified individuals with little to no background checking ( none in most cases) to work in sensitive areas inside of a nuclear reactor on a rotating and everyday basis ( they change out "sub-contractor" guys all the time for medical and exposure reasons) .

I should mention that I got my first electronics and computer training ( hardware side ) from Brian Lomax ( helped develop cmos) over twenty six years ago , starting with a two year course in ROTC electronics and computer and circuit assembly and repair and in the last couple of decades have kept my nose to the ground technologically speaking , so I and one of those in a position to be familiar with several generations ( and the basic evolution) of tech, in other words if you have some technical information you may not even have to dumb it down .




Relay based controls are not programmable in the traditional sense. If you want it to perform differently, you physically have to rewire it and change relays/timers/loop controllers/etcetera


these are data driven systems that are no longer purely mechanical , something triggers the relay ( hence controllers), but not something as simple as the thermally generated microvolts like from a household water heater , and even if it was something that simple every one of these times/events is monitored ( through a controller) at multiple times and places (meaning that software can be added with innocuous hardware that gets added somewhere in the line), and every single one of those systems failed on not one reactor or pool cooling system but 3 reactors and 6 cooling pools , for a purely hardwired system the chances of simultaneous failure of so many systems is statistically about as possible as gold turning into air spontaneously at any given moment.

although a few fact of items specificity at Fukushoma would be helpful if you have them
edit on 17-5-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 17 2011 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by SirMike
 


A lot of people seem to disagree with you, do you have some proof ? Something showing the plant diagrams and computer systems at fukushima? according to Tepco's own information the plant systems were upgraded and a number of analysts think that even if the valves themselves could not be intercepted the information being sent back and forth between the control could be .

Now honestly I would love to disprove the sabotage by stuxnet theory but evidence from a variety of sources ( with computer malfunction not even being necessary in most scenarios ) indicates that a number of items cannot be explained by the circumstance of failure and incompetence alone.
edit on 17-5-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)


I wish I could give you something definitive like a link to a good source that states definitively that Fukushima uses SCADA controls or Fukushima uses relay based logic controls but I cannot. I based my comments off my experience in the US nuclear industry which does not use SCADA for control as all of the current plants running were designed in the 60’s and 70’s.

This is from the NRC, it was just published last year. Its got to do with seismic events and the impacts they have on relays.


A large number of relays are used to control many devices in nuclear power plants such as pumps, valves, and circuit breakers. In addition, much of the control logic for system initiation and control is accomplished with relays. Relay control may be accomplished by relay actuation either in the energized or the deenergized state.


A document less than a year old states that relay logic is used to control safety related systems.

Here’s an article about the Slammer Worm that infected the SCADA systems at Davis Besse. Before you point out the obvious that this kind of destroys my argument, keep in mind that article specifically states that the SCADA system was used for data collection not control.


Currently, U.S. nuclear plants generally have digital systems monitoring critical plant operations, but not controlling them, said the expert. But if an intruder could tamper with monitoring systems like Davis-Besse's SPDS, which operators are accustomed to trusting, that could increase the risk of an accident


Granted, none of this applies specifically to Fukushima, but since it’s a Mk1 reactor, it probably operates like every other Mk1 reactor in the world.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by SirMike
 


Interesting, though I think that what appears most likely at this juncture ( ask me tomorrow I may disagree ) is data masking , just like at TMI if two gauges have different readings believe the optimistic one that's the (tri-optimum, oops I mean) Tepco way.

Either way I think you can agree that multiple mechanical fails at several levels warrant a likely common cause and even given the extremes here ( at fukushima ) shake and soak don't seem to be good enough to be ...so complete...and consistent , if they are it is a major problem for the nuclear industry
edit on 17-5-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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I found something.

Actually, I found quite a few somethings; this is i think the best one --

what was missing was definitive proof of the type of controls that the plant uses.

I quote from a Tepco presentation on Ageing Plant Managent and Safe Long Term Operation, dated 2010, and, as I quote, understand that I am bright-eyed, barely containing myself -- (this was not easy to find, let me just say)




... All nonconformities related to component/equipment degradation are analyzed and evaluated for improvement of maintenance programmes to reduce these nonconformities: Incinerator, House Boiler, RW/B HVAC Ducts, Rad-waste, High sensitivity off-gas monitors, TOSDIA controller Recorders, Temperature elements, I&C Capacitors, Low voltage motors, Capacitors, Low voltage motors, Wedge of motors, Electric, Imported Valves, Sea water piping, flanges, HPCI/RCIC turbines, Imported Valves, Main turbine, Turbine, Imported, components, CRD/HCU, ECCS MOVs ...All I&C equipment/components important to safety and plant reliability (process computer, neutron monitoring, etc) are replaced every 15-20 years.


there is more. Fukishima Daiichi NPP is specifically referred to. Check it out:

femalefaust.blogspot.com...

I will be attempting to post the rest of my finds in the coming days/weeks.

Be seeing you.



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 05:17 PM
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I posted some of this on the monster thread and it might be appropriate here as well.

Jim Stone, retired NSA analyst (electronic warfare) turned photographer now freelance journalist, most likely a wackjob but has done some interesting digging around and his site has some data regarding Stuxent along with some other more 'out there' theories about Fukushima.

Jim Stone's site - Fukushima

Not saying I believe him but some of the evidence he has is a bit difficult to ignore totally - especially when the Israeli's admit to developing it --
Israeli security chief celebrates Stuxnet cyber attack - The Telegraph

and other evidence points to possible intrusion points by the Musad into the Fuku security systems --- Israeli firm’s cameras recording Japanese nuclear core.

Now I happen to think this is mostly circumstantial but when several of these bits are coming together it is highly suspicious. Definitely worth taking some time to look at. Here's an excerpt from his site:


Fukushima was impossible. The swamping of the external generators by the tsunami was irrelevant, because the real emergency backup systems are driven by steam from the reactors themselves. No electricity is needed to operate three separate emergency systems at each reactor, each of which will keep a reactor safe even if only one works. Interesting it is then that all 9 non electrical backup systems across the three fueled reactors failed. This is technically impossible outside of willful intent, and was likely the result of a Stuxnet attack.

Stuxnet was designed specifically to target Siemens SCADA controllers and is most effective at tampering with fluid control systems. The centrifuges it attacked in Iran were ideal. So are the fluid control systems at a nuclear facility. Oil refineries are equally at risk, Stuxnet is most dangerous when affecting a system which needs to control the flow of any liquid, be it hydraulic, for cooling, or combining chemicals. Stuxnet is documented to have been produced by the Israeli Defense Forces, for the purpose of destroying any industrial system that can be destroyed by improper fluid flow.

Magna BSP, a Dimona based company with no history outside of IDF contracts prior to Fukushima has a suspiciously short domain history despite a 10 year claimed history. Magna BSP had a full time internet linked two way connection to the Fukushima reactor room(s) all the way through the disaster. They told TEPCO about that connection on March 15 (after everything blew sky high) via an article printed in the Jerusalem Post. Why did Manga BSP wait until everything was blown sky high to tell Tepco the data link existed, and then did not tell them face to face? I find it hard to believe that TEPCO would not have been interested in viewing a reactor that was about to explode. It seems impossible that Tepco would not have wanted to view the reactor, and probably did not ask because the link was kept a secret. It is a simple fact that internet connections are never allowed inside a reactor's containment. The connection was mentioned in the Jerusalem Post AFTER the destruction was finalized.

Stuxnet has two modes, random and administrative. It can be administered to optimize the damage and can also transmit setup information and industrial system information to a remote computer. Once installed on the host system via a flash drive it causes that system to violate it's normal security protocols and internet administration becomes possible if a connection exists. Tampering is not visible on the control room readouts, because Stuxnet learns what "normal" looks like and keeps the temperature, pressure, and other readouts within normal limits so that the operators are oblivious to the destruction happening in secret. Stuxnet appeared in Japan in June of 2010, shortly after Magna BSP arrived. Remote administration mode can be adjusted on demand to suit any need. No doubt the people at Fukushima sat there in idle mode thinking all was well until something screamed or went boom and at that point it would be too late to do anything other than cry.

I am a lifer in the types of control systems Fukushima and it's clone, TVA owned Browns Ferry have. BOTH have been upgraded to modern Siemens controllers running the Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition (SCADA) system Stuxnet was designed to attack; upgrades are the norm in any major facility. On many blogs people say the controls were old and therefore Stuxnet immune; they are out of touch or have no knowledge of industrial control systems. I actually ferreted it out.

And now I will explain in detail why the problems before the explosions had to be sabotage

The diesel generators were not out in the open as we were led to believe, they were in fact located in the basements of the turbine buildings which were sealed off and never significantly flooded. One of them stayed running the entire time, but the electrical switch gear attached to it disconnected it for an unexplained reason which made it useless. Each of the backup generators at Fukushima were capable of running 14,000 households each, which means they had to be over ten megawatts each. It is obvious then that Fukushima was set up to survive on only ONE of 13 backup generators, and ONE did keep running. One would be many times larger than needed to run last ditch backup systems at all reactors, but would not keep business as usual. But that is not the real story, which is that even others which were high and dry stopped as well.

I hypothesize that the ONE generator that kept running was kept as a lone reserve, never hooked up to a SCADA controller. Why did the switch gear disconnect a working generator? That is the type of thing Stuxnet was designed to do. On top of these things, emergency generators arrived on scene within 9 hours, before anything bad happened at all but were not able to provide power because the switch gear would not let them. This deceptively written report from the World Nuclear Association contains all this information, but it is presented in a way which will cause you to overlook these things if you are not careful while reading it. This report contains accurate information presented in a very misleading way, which will protect the liars who wrote it - they actually did speak the truth here but in a way it would be missed by virtually anyone. Study the facts presented here with the full ramifications of those facts in mind, not their shallow misleading conclusions. More...


Just posting this for folks who would like the info and would like to make up their own minds.
edit on 19-6-2011 by Wertwog because: Unicorns are sad moonbats get all the attention.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 01:31 AM
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i cannot choose the best reply. would appreciate help:

a) please sir go a little slower. the connective details of your analysis would encourage me to not feel so --- uncomfortable, like i have just been had, especially after visiting your site. did you notice that most if not all of the links you provide go to the same site (yours)? the same place, the same page, no differentiation. was that on purpose? not much activity at that site either, according to the internet archive. this information is presented as entertainment only, since it, in isolation, proves nothing.

b) what have you bought into and how much does it cost to buy you out?

c) i would like to make it clear to everyone reading this that the preceding post and the subject of this thread are in my mind only superficially related.

d) thank you for what info you did provide at your site -- for instance, after checking the links, i think japan DID offer to enrich uranium for iran. AND i also was reminded of the wisdom of testing target links online without visiting them. thank you. in the case of the ynet news article on japan's enrichment offer, visiting directly resulted in being hijacked by a 'you have won' popup that, in its attempt to induce my clicking the "ok" button (doubtless triggering a world of data collection, if such was not already in play) completely locked me out of my browser, out of which i had to force quit to escape. of course you cannot be held responsible for this.

e) what do you call it when the evil fascists controlling the media with propaganda find a way to inject stories superficially uncovering wrongdoing, lies, and corruption, but that go over the top, out to lunch, off the hook as it were, thus draining much needed human resources from the good fight, calling the reputation of anyone who held the original hypotheses (not beliefs, hypotheses) into question, and basically obscuring any good research and contributing to what has been uncovered being disregarded by intelligent but conservative minds who might otherwise have given their unbiased attention to the original, rational, non-whack-job inquiry?

f) can we just ignore the last post?



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by femalefaust

...
f) can we just ignore the last post?
...



Go ahead, IDC one way or the other. Not my ideas, not my site dude.



posted on Jun, 25 2011 @ 11:18 PM
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Fukushima Fuku-Ups Continue

www.asianweek.com...

Huh. Interesting, not taking any side, posting for info only. The comments are interesting also....



Now WHO Would Want to Spread Stuxnet Rumours?

Just got a comment pointing out a thread that pretty much gives away who is behind the disinformation, I’ll call them the RadMooselims. The thread starts out with speculation something like the stuxnet could have attacked Fukushima, and ends with Jim Stones crazy speculation that Israel planted nukes in unit 3 and HAARP caused the earthquake to punish Japan for helping Iran. Watch out fof ***red flags***

This fellow BadMagician (BM) started the thread thus, but he gives important clues to his motives and allegiences.

My dividing line for good/evil is pro-Israel / pro-Palestine, and that pretty much explains the world for me. My conspiracy theory is that most of the conspiracy theories ARE a conspiracy leading to people who are not nice to Jews or Isreal, and it’s a psy-op war against the “War on Terror” or the “War on Islam”

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I’ve had my eye on the Fukushima Nuclear Plant crisis since it began, my eyes glued to news reports, but the most reliable info seems to be coming via ATS. One thing that is a bit scary is the nature of the emergency and its similarity to the way the Stuxnet worm can be utilized on PLC’s (Programmable Logic Controllers). The worm was used on a plant in ***Iran*** to sabotage its centrifuges

Later he’s slugging it out with SirMike who seems to be a critic of radical Islamist terrorists on other threads:

…from a skewed perspective, but you seem to be following all the hot topics, giving your little debunk, and leaving. You have started *** Islamophobic*** threads that generated 4 replies and a flag because the general public of ATS has ***good judgement***. You reply in ***Islam***-related threads with ***bigotry***, however much you try to mask it with logic.

You can see where SirMike is coming from:

TheImmaculateD1 is accusing Israel of bombing its own bus, like 9-11 truthers: “I honestly think this is an inside job as look at the climate as of late, Israel losing credibility by the hour over it’s permanent martial law of Palestine plus how no one is believing them anymore.”
SirMike: Of course its an inside job … its not like the Arabs have track record with this kind of thing.

and “If being opposed to the “will of the people” with respect to Egypt and the Middle East means the US and Europe opposed the formation Islamic republics populated with mindsets from the 12th century is wrong … then I don’t want to be right. Sorry, but Chomsky is an amazingly transparent hypocrite.”

Translation?
- People who hate SirMike are probably include radical Islamist terrorist symphathizers for Palestine
- BM seems to be upset with how Stuxnet harmed Iran
- BM is upset about Islamophobia, RadMooslim red flag
- BM frequents Islamic threads where he has met Sirmike, another red flag
- BM think flagging critics of RadMooslims is “good judgement”, but just means conspiracy threads are crawling with these folks
- BM accuses SirMike of “bigotry” another red flag.

People like BM do a remarkably bad job of hiding their true intentions and what their agenda is. Now a ignorant bigot might put these together and conclude that an Iran-symphathizer who tracks down people to call them Islamaphobes on Islamic newsgroups is part of a deliberate state-sponsored disinformation campaign to harm Israel and shut down critics, and that the same thing has been behind the 9-11 truth movement. But that would be jumping to conclusions, wouldn’t it?

As I’ve said again, Asian Americans need to take a stand on terrorism and the mideast conflict. It does spill over to things closer to Asians like Fukushima. Countries in Asia like the Phillipines have been bases for Al Queda where Ramzi Youself is thought to have met and trained Nichols the Oklahoma City bomber. 9-11 hero Betty Ong was heavily trashed in the slick “Loose Change” propoganda DVD which obviously tried to shift blame for 9-11 by denying Al Queda and Muslim hijackers had nothing to do with the tragedy. Korean Yong Kwon was recruited into the Virginia Jihad Network.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 11:16 PM
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completely. I am still not sure how to respond, in the thread you quoted, and so still have not. i consider it important to maintain dialogue with rational humans with whom one does not agree. my response will hinge on the procedure for checking out another forum member, i think -- doing so does NOT imply that one is visiting the threads to which he has posted for their content.

not that that itself should necessitate any 'flagging.' even if one had drunk the zionist koolaid down to the very last murderous duplicitous unjust murderous fascist lying prejudiced and intending-to-continue-to-be-assholes-in-like-manner drop.

i don't like koolaid. any variety.

i am wondering now whether i should just give up on responding entirely -- but if we all were to do likewise in a similar situation -- no one would ever learn anything, and we would be screwed.

btw that exchange over at asianweek spawned another, interestingly, unfortunately quoting what you quoted -- and not my position. o well, here's hoping kids can think for themselves.

Be seeing you.
edit on 27-6-2011 by femalefaust because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-6-2011 by femalefaust because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-6-2011 by femalefaust because: i am filling this out for the above 2 edits: the first was a typo (an extra trailing

edit on 27-6-2011 by femalefaust because: ":"), the second was to clarify that my being 'unsure' referred to the quoted thread and not this one, and then during the edit to add the reasons for the edits i accidentally pressed 'return,' and so had to edit again. *ahem*



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by femalefaust
i cannot choose the best reply. would appreciate help:

a) please sir go a little slower. the connective details of your analysis would encourage me to not feel so --- uncomfortable, like i have just been had, especially after visiting your site. did you notice that most if not all of the links you provide go to the same site (yours)? the same place, the same page, no differentiation. was that on purpose? not much activity at that site either, according to the internet archive. this information is presented as entertainment only, since it, in isolation, proves nothing.

b) what have you bought into and how much does it cost to buy you out?

c) i would like to make it clear to everyone reading this that the preceding post and the subject of this thread are in my mind only superficially related.

d) thank you for what info you did provide at your site -- for instance, after checking the links, i think japan DID offer to enrich uranium for iran. AND i also was reminded of the wisdom of testing target links online without visiting them. thank you. in the case of the ynet news article on japan's enrichment offer, visiting directly resulted in being hijacked by a 'you have won' popup that, in its attempt to induce my clicking the "ok" button (doubtless triggering a world of data collection, if such was not already in play) completely locked me out of my browser, out of which i had to force quit to escape. of course you cannot be held responsible for this.

e) what do you call it when the evil fascists controlling the media with propaganda find a way to inject stories superficially uncovering wrongdoing, lies, and corruption, but that go over the top, out to lunch, off the hook as it were, thus draining much needed human resources from the good fight, calling the reputation of anyone who held the original hypotheses (not beliefs, hypotheses) into question, and basically obscuring any good research and contributing to what has been uncovered being disregarded by intelligent but conservative minds who might otherwise have given their unbiased attention to the original, rational, non-whack-job inquiry?

f) can we just ignore the last post?



Greetings:

This is what we got from your "minds" link:

WARNING: Visiting this site may harm your computer.

The website you are visiting appears to contain malware.
Malware is a malacious software that may harm your computer or otherwise operate without your consent. Your computer can be infected just by browsing to a site with malware, without any further action on your part.

For detailed information about problems found on this site, or a portion of this site, visit the Google Safe Browsing diagnostic page for www.asianweek.com

Be careful out there.

In Peace, Love & Light

tfw



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by femalefaust
 


huh? I assume you are replying to me although you didn't care to use the "reply-to" feature.... I don't really have a clue what you are going on about, except for some vague notion that you think I am Jim Stone, lol (I'm very much a girl and most decidedly NOT Jim Stone), or perhaps someone else at ATS, hahahaaha, um no, but you'll probably just have to take my word on that. If you can't figure it out from my profile then I just gotta laugh. I was under the impression this thread was about exploring the Stuxnet connections to Fukushima, but I gather only certain ideas are on the table? Fine with me, was merely posting for general info. I do agree Jim Stone is most likely a moonbat but then again I'd like to see some evidence that counters some of his and mostly I've heard a pretty scornful dismissal without much actual response to his ideas and why they CAN'T be true.

It appears as innocuous as my intentions were, merely posting a link to his site seriously ruffled some feathers. My apologies if it derailed the thread. I'm not sure how you CAN discuss stuxnet and not also discuss the Israeli political (not racial) connections, but meh, it's no skin of my back one way or the other and I am not a Zionist, joo hater or any other thing but a curious mind seeking answers. If you feel the need to personally attack me for posting a link then I have to question why my posting of this material seems to have given you a case of rabies.
edit on 28-6-2011 by Wertwog because: Unicorns are sad moonbats get all the attention.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 04:58 AM
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am new to posting here.

am offering my apologies concerning

a) not using the reply-to feature

b) confusing you with mr. stone. i hate it when i experience that, and it always seems unnecessary, since to me my not being the author of the quoted text is obvious. i always thought it showed a lack of attention, of care. i think that now, and i am sorry (and i never really thought i would be on the other side of that one). o and yes, i must admit, embarrassed. thank you for alerting me to this error so kindly.

c) giving you the impression that some ideas are "off the table." put like that, i take it back, please let me retract my remark about ignoring the post. information stands and falls on its own right : "let right and wrong alone decide." even when it is seriously out to lunch. of course, in the history of our species, some things that were at the time thought seriously out to lunch were, in fact, true, or closer to truth than the accepted wisdom when they were first introduced.

d) sending anyone to a site that would harm their computer. if i recall correctly, there was no such warning at the time for me, although there was one when i went back later. i spent a bit of time, (more than i expected), and found a googlecache of this, an entry in the UPAAN (U-Penn Asian Alumni Network) news aggregator page.

UPAAN

please remember this is an out-of-context repost of a reply to a comment i posted in response to arthur hu's op-ed attempt to discredit 'conspiracy theories,' anti-israeli factions, alex jones, mike rivero, jim stone, and radmooslims (he groups all these together indiscriminately) --

-- a comment which i am tempted to regret having made, given that the reply it engendered was reposted. even if my part is per accidens and not causa. a human temptation; i forgive myself.

sheesh. my apologies, really. i know i had my reasons, but reasons are usually best left out of sincere apologies.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by femalefaust
am new to posting here.

am offering my apologies concerning

a) not using the reply-to feature

b) confusing you with mr. stone. i hate it when i experience that, and it always seems unnecessary, since to me my not being the author of the quoted text is obvious. i always thought it showed a lack of attention, of care. i think that now, and i am sorry (and i never really thought i would be on the other side of that one). o and yes, i must admit, embarrassed. thank you for alerting me to this error so kindly.

c) giving you the impression that some ideas are "off the table." put like that, i take it back, please let me retract my remark about ignoring the post. information stands and falls on its own right : "let right and wrong alone decide." even when it is seriously out to lunch. of course, in the history of our species, some things that were at the time thought seriously out to lunch were, in fact, true, or closer to truth than the accepted wisdom when they were first introduced.

d) sending anyone to a site that would harm their computer. if i recall correctly, there was no such warning at the time for me, although there was one when i went back later. i spent a bit of time, (more than i expected), and found a googlecache of this, an entry in the UPAAN (U-Penn Asian Alumni Network) news aggregator page.

UPAAN

please remember this is an out-of-context repost of a reply to a comment i posted in response to arthur hu's op-ed attempt to discredit 'conspiracy theories,' anti-israeli factions, alex jones, mike rivero, jim stone, and radmooslims (he groups all these together indiscriminately) --

-- a comment which i am tempted to regret having made, given that the reply it engendered was reposted. even if my part is per accidens and not causa. a human temptation; i forgive myself.

sheesh. my apologies, really. i know i had my reasons, but reasons are usually best left out of sincere apologies.


It is a rare person with a great deal of integrity and humility who can admit mistakes, the "admittance" often being too much for the ego to take, and so necessary. We don't learn from our successes, but our failures. Thomas Edison once said that it takes 10000 mistakes to find an answer, and there is an old Buddhist saying that the difference between a Zen master and a novice is 10,000 mistakes.

In the pursuit of truth there are many wrong and misleading paths -- and we are being guided into the diversions and untruths since there are forces that do not want us to know. It takes a strong and clear mind to see into the hairball and not merely orbit it, as most do. Your apology was gracious and unexpected.

Thank you, it was my honor to facilitate your learning. You restored my faith that folks can behave with some integrity on ATS when at first they seem like guard dogs circling their own truth meme's like a delicious pile of half eaten chicken parts. When I make my next mistake (inevitable) I will remember your example. Kudos!



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 



Originally posted by Wertwog

It is a rare person with a great deal of integrity and humility who can admit mistakes, the "admittance" often being too much for the ego to take, and so necessary. We don't learn from our successes, but our failures. Thomas Edison once said that it takes 10000 mistakes to find an answer, and there is an old Buddhist saying that the difference between a Zen master and a novice is 10,000 mistakes.

In the pursuit of truth there are many wrong and misleading paths -- and we are being guided into the diversions and untruths since there are forces that do not want us to know. It takes a strong and clear mind to see into the hairball and not merely orbit it, as most do. Your apology was gracious and unexpected.

Thank you, it was my honor to facilitate your learning. You restored my faith that folks can behave with some integrity on ATS when at first they seem like guard dogs circling their own truth meme's like a delicious pile of half eaten chicken parts. When I make my next mistake (inevitable) I will remember your example. Kudos!


wow....

i didn't expect that, thank you. your response to my apology made my day -- (which, by the clock, is just getting started).

**reminds self** i came here to report a couple interesting updates:

possibly a solid bit o' evidence that yes, TepCo did indeed use the PLCs at risk of STU.X.NET:
Tepco, 2010: Aging Management and Safe Long Term Operation At Guess Where

and,
if you haven't seen this yet
this may blow your mind
FUKUSHIMA: POSSIBLE CAUSES & COVER UPS

--- thanks again Wertwog (checks spelling, cool) for being --- real ---

and to everyone else who knows

Truth
is where its at

(oh i know i sound silly, good thing i can edit..)
edit on 6-10-2011 by femalefaust because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2011 @ 08:07 PM
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Greetings:

Meanwhile, back to the Fukushima World-Killer Nuke Meltdowns and the [color=limegreen]continuing radiation poising of our land, food and children - 24/7/365.

zorgon, what is your take on this?


Well, I spent three weeks following that Fukushima story doggedly... then in the end I found out three things...

1) Except for a handful of people and those that live in the area... NO ONE CARES...

2) We are still here... 1000's of nuke tests (especially near my home town) medical radiation, space radiation, CME's, cell tower radiation, microwave radiation... etc etc.. and we are STILL HERE.. and world population is increasing exponentially

3) Radiation is good for you


Greetings:

Thank you for your insightful and timely response.

1) We have been attempting to sound the alarm in the many nuke-related threads in our signature, and have come to the same conclusion: NO ONE CARES...

However, having spent the last six weeks on the road in the Hurricane Irene-ravaged areas of North Carolina, we were amazed - no, dumfounded - that [color=limegreen]NOT ONE PERSON we spoke with (including fellow First Responder Volunteer Firepersons) had any clue about Fukushima 24/7/365.

The Captain of the local department said that "there is no problem, or the USGOV/EPA would alert us, and it would be on television, right? (!???!)

Revised Conclusion: The people have been denied the basic information to make informed decisions as to how best "handle" the radiation poisoning nightmare.

2) Never thought that you would not be (there) "here" - after all, who would want to leave that pool? And whatever happens in "here" (there) stays in "here," (there), right mate?

3) You and Ann Coulter make such a great pair...

Glad to be back.

As we have been attempting to bring to light for over six months (!), there exists a world-wide conspiracy in the MSM to deprive the public of the facts regarding the dire consequences of the melt-throughs of the nuclear reactors at Fukushima-Daiichi.

Please listen up, people.

Your life and the lives of your loved ones may very well depend on your access to and use thereof of potentially life-saving information being kept from you by the EPA/USGOV.

The total number of days between Friday, March 11th, 2011 and Tuesday, October 11th, 2011 is 214 days.

The radiation poisoning of our people, food and land has continued unabated - 24/7/365 - for exactly 7 months.

For your edification and enjoyment (bewilderment), a few 'notable' stories that seemed to miss mass circulation and perhaps a peek at what might have been missed on the 6:00 o'clock news...:

Three days into the disaster, this FOR EYES ONLY memo circulated at the NRC.

14 March 2011
NRC ONLY Update – All 3 Reactor Cores Likely Damaged

15 March 2011
Fukushima Daiichi Units Degrading – Zirconium Fire at Reactor 4 SFP – Reactor 2 Possible Reactor Vessel Breach & Ex-Vessel Core Reaction

My goodness gracious! And we thought they (TEPCO/JAPGOV) said they had this "stabilized..." and presumably under control...

At least, that is what they (and the EPA/USGOV) would have you believe.

Fast-forward about six months to more headlines you may have missed in your local media:

21 August 2011
Fukushima Officials Worry New Discovery of Radioactive Beef Will Harm Reputation More After Farmer Confirms Cattle Not Fed Contaminated Rice Straw


21 August 2011
4,000 Potentially Radioactive Cows Without Radioactive Rice Hay May Have Been Shipped from One Farm in Namie-Machi, Fukushima

29 August 2011
Why the Fukushima Disaster Is Worse Than Chernobyl

31 August 2011
France Releases Map of Cesium-137 Deposition Across the Pacific – Shows the US More Contaminated Than Western Japan



[color=limegreen]Will this insanity ever end?


In Peace, Love & Light

tfw



posted on Oct, 11 2011 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by thorfourwinds
 


You seriously need to stop spaming every post with this.



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by SirMike
reply to post by thorfourwinds
 


You seriously need to stop spaming every post with this.


Greetings:

WHY?

It figures we would get an inane one-liner from you.

Is that all you've got?

Did we offend your sensibilities?

So glad to have caught your attention.

Please, if you will, tell us what you find wrong with our attempt to inform, we, the people, about the dangers we are facing as a species.

We are attempting to spread the word about a world-wide MSM conspiracy to keep vital - potentially life-saving information - from the public.

Do you have a problem with this?

Or a better idea?

[color=limegreen]Better yet, can you refute any of the information we have posted to date on this subject?

Enough of the weak comments and platitudes.

Step up to the plate, SirMike, let's see what you've got.

Do you have something positive to add to the discussion, or is this attack personal?

Whatever.

We thank you for your time, consideration and input and look forward to further communication.

In Peace, Love & Light

tfw



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by thorfourwinds
 


Your spam, by its nature is pointless! Throwing a half a dozen blog links in a post and putting some pretty text doesn’t make the content of what you post any more appealing. No one wants to read 1500 words of rambling Socratic masturbatory self dialogue that doesn’t have any coherent conclusion.

If you have something to say then SAY IT … if you have a question to ash then ASK IT, but please stop posting off topic material into every thread remotely related to nuclear power.

The OP in this case posted that a Stuxnet like virus was responsible for the failures at Fukushima, do you have anything relevant to add to that? If not start a new thread and leave the rest of us alone.

edit on 12-10-2011 by SirMike because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 08:51 AM
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I'm pretty sure it was a massive earthquake
and then a massive wave, not stuxnet.



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 09:24 AM
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Before Fukushima........

Before StuxNet..........

Japan offered to help Iran with its Nuclear Reactors.

The United States was MAD!

The whole "kick the US Marines out of Okinawa" thing was actually the Japanese pushing it as they've been getting very anti-American. Their military officers writing very anti-American papers blaming America for WWII....

Well they didn't lie. Japan was kinda innocent. Long ago foreigners were doing things in Japan which led to the Civil War in Japan where the Samurai's were killing each other. When Japan's civil war was over they closed their cities and didn't want to deal with the crooked world. The US Navy rolled in and said "open up to trading or we are going to bomb your cities"....Japan quickly modernized and traded their Samurai swords for business suits and glasses. They spread around the Pacific creating Industry, using the same tactics we taught them.

The US decided to cease exporting Oil to Japan. Japan said to open up to trading or get bombed. The US evacuated its military and dependents from Guam leaving a skeleton crew. They figured Japan would just seize Guam. Boom, Pearl Harbor. We knew it was coming. We taught them that tactic.

Poor Japanese. You can only beat a dog so long before he snaps at you.

One day, Japan will be able to snap...and get their honor back. Today's kids using Japanese game stations have no clue the Japanese despise them...and want them DEAD.

The Baby Boomers belittling the Toyota Exec before Congress was a little too much. You don't do such things publicly to the Japanese. Unless you understand the consequences.







 
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