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Relay based controls are not programmable in the traditional sense. If you want it to perform differently, you physically have to rewire it and change relays/timers/loop controllers/etcetera
Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by SirMike
A lot of people seem to disagree with you, do you have some proof ? Something showing the plant diagrams and computer systems at fukushima? according to Tepco's own information the plant systems were upgraded and a number of analysts think that even if the valves themselves could not be intercepted the information being sent back and forth between the control could be .
Now honestly I would love to disprove the sabotage by stuxnet theory but evidence from a variety of sources ( with computer malfunction not even being necessary in most scenarios ) indicates that a number of items cannot be explained by the circumstance of failure and incompetence alone.edit on 17-5-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)
A large number of relays are used to control many devices in nuclear power plants such as pumps, valves, and circuit breakers. In addition, much of the control logic for system initiation and control is accomplished with relays. Relay control may be accomplished by relay actuation either in the energized or the deenergized state.
Currently, U.S. nuclear plants generally have digital systems monitoring critical plant operations, but not controlling them, said the expert. But if an intruder could tamper with monitoring systems like Davis-Besse's SPDS, which operators are accustomed to trusting, that could increase the risk of an accident
... All nonconformities related to component/equipment degradation are analyzed and evaluated for improvement of maintenance programmes to reduce these nonconformities: Incinerator, House Boiler, RW/B HVAC Ducts, Rad-waste, High sensitivity off-gas monitors, TOSDIA controller Recorders, Temperature elements, I&C Capacitors, Low voltage motors, Capacitors, Low voltage motors, Wedge of motors, Electric, Imported Valves, Sea water piping, flanges, HPCI/RCIC turbines, Imported Valves, Main turbine, Turbine, Imported, components, CRD/HCU, ECCS MOVs ...All I&C equipment/components important to safety and plant reliability (process computer, neutron monitoring, etc) are replaced every 15-20 years.
Fukushima was impossible. The swamping of the external generators by the tsunami was irrelevant, because the real emergency backup systems are driven by steam from the reactors themselves. No electricity is needed to operate three separate emergency systems at each reactor, each of which will keep a reactor safe even if only one works. Interesting it is then that all 9 non electrical backup systems across the three fueled reactors failed. This is technically impossible outside of willful intent, and was likely the result of a Stuxnet attack.
Stuxnet was designed specifically to target Siemens SCADA controllers and is most effective at tampering with fluid control systems. The centrifuges it attacked in Iran were ideal. So are the fluid control systems at a nuclear facility. Oil refineries are equally at risk, Stuxnet is most dangerous when affecting a system which needs to control the flow of any liquid, be it hydraulic, for cooling, or combining chemicals. Stuxnet is documented to have been produced by the Israeli Defense Forces, for the purpose of destroying any industrial system that can be destroyed by improper fluid flow.
Magna BSP, a Dimona based company with no history outside of IDF contracts prior to Fukushima has a suspiciously short domain history despite a 10 year claimed history. Magna BSP had a full time internet linked two way connection to the Fukushima reactor room(s) all the way through the disaster. They told TEPCO about that connection on March 15 (after everything blew sky high) via an article printed in the Jerusalem Post. Why did Manga BSP wait until everything was blown sky high to tell Tepco the data link existed, and then did not tell them face to face? I find it hard to believe that TEPCO would not have been interested in viewing a reactor that was about to explode. It seems impossible that Tepco would not have wanted to view the reactor, and probably did not ask because the link was kept a secret. It is a simple fact that internet connections are never allowed inside a reactor's containment. The connection was mentioned in the Jerusalem Post AFTER the destruction was finalized.
Stuxnet has two modes, random and administrative. It can be administered to optimize the damage and can also transmit setup information and industrial system information to a remote computer. Once installed on the host system via a flash drive it causes that system to violate it's normal security protocols and internet administration becomes possible if a connection exists. Tampering is not visible on the control room readouts, because Stuxnet learns what "normal" looks like and keeps the temperature, pressure, and other readouts within normal limits so that the operators are oblivious to the destruction happening in secret. Stuxnet appeared in Japan in June of 2010, shortly after Magna BSP arrived. Remote administration mode can be adjusted on demand to suit any need. No doubt the people at Fukushima sat there in idle mode thinking all was well until something screamed or went boom and at that point it would be too late to do anything other than cry.
I am a lifer in the types of control systems Fukushima and it's clone, TVA owned Browns Ferry have. BOTH have been upgraded to modern Siemens controllers running the Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition (SCADA) system Stuxnet was designed to attack; upgrades are the norm in any major facility. On many blogs people say the controls were old and therefore Stuxnet immune; they are out of touch or have no knowledge of industrial control systems. I actually ferreted it out.
And now I will explain in detail why the problems before the explosions had to be sabotage
The diesel generators were not out in the open as we were led to believe, they were in fact located in the basements of the turbine buildings which were sealed off and never significantly flooded. One of them stayed running the entire time, but the electrical switch gear attached to it disconnected it for an unexplained reason which made it useless. Each of the backup generators at Fukushima were capable of running 14,000 households each, which means they had to be over ten megawatts each. It is obvious then that Fukushima was set up to survive on only ONE of 13 backup generators, and ONE did keep running. One would be many times larger than needed to run last ditch backup systems at all reactors, but would not keep business as usual. But that is not the real story, which is that even others which were high and dry stopped as well.
I hypothesize that the ONE generator that kept running was kept as a lone reserve, never hooked up to a SCADA controller. Why did the switch gear disconnect a working generator? That is the type of thing Stuxnet was designed to do. On top of these things, emergency generators arrived on scene within 9 hours, before anything bad happened at all but were not able to provide power because the switch gear would not let them. This deceptively written report from the World Nuclear Association contains all this information, but it is presented in a way which will cause you to overlook these things if you are not careful while reading it. This report contains accurate information presented in a very misleading way, which will protect the liars who wrote it - they actually did speak the truth here but in a way it would be missed by virtually anyone. Study the facts presented here with the full ramifications of those facts in mind, not their shallow misleading conclusions. More...
Originally posted by femalefaust
f) can we just ignore the last post?
Now WHO Would Want to Spread Stuxnet Rumours?
Just got a comment pointing out a thread that pretty much gives away who is behind the disinformation, I’ll call them the RadMooselims. The thread starts out with speculation something like the stuxnet could have attacked Fukushima, and ends with Jim Stones crazy speculation that Israel planted nukes in unit 3 and HAARP caused the earthquake to punish Japan for helping Iran. Watch out fof ***red flags***
This fellow BadMagician (BM) started the thread thus, but he gives important clues to his motives and allegiences.
My dividing line for good/evil is pro-Israel / pro-Palestine, and that pretty much explains the world for me. My conspiracy theory is that most of the conspiracy theories ARE a conspiracy leading to people who are not nice to Jews or Isreal, and it’s a psy-op war against the “War on Terror” or the “War on Islam”
I’ve had my eye on the Fukushima Nuclear Plant crisis since it began, my eyes glued to news reports, but the most reliable info seems to be coming via ATS. One thing that is a bit scary is the nature of the emergency and its similarity to the way the Stuxnet worm can be utilized on PLC’s (Programmable Logic Controllers). The worm was used on a plant in ***Iran*** to sabotage its centrifuges
Later he’s slugging it out with SirMike who seems to be a critic of radical Islamist terrorists on other threads:
…from a skewed perspective, but you seem to be following all the hot topics, giving your little debunk, and leaving. You have started *** Islamophobic*** threads that generated 4 replies and a flag because the general public of ATS has ***good judgement***. You reply in ***Islam***-related threads with ***bigotry***, however much you try to mask it with logic.
You can see where SirMike is coming from:
TheImmaculateD1 is accusing Israel of bombing its own bus, like 9-11 truthers: “I honestly think this is an inside job as look at the climate as of late, Israel losing credibility by the hour over it’s permanent martial law of Palestine plus how no one is believing them anymore.”
SirMike: Of course its an inside job … its not like the Arabs have track record with this kind of thing.
and “If being opposed to the “will of the people” with respect to Egypt and the Middle East means the US and Europe opposed the formation Islamic republics populated with mindsets from the 12th century is wrong … then I don’t want to be right. Sorry, but Chomsky is an amazingly transparent hypocrite.”
- People who hate SirMike are probably include radical Islamist terrorist symphathizers for Palestine
- BM seems to be upset with how Stuxnet harmed Iran
- BM is upset about Islamophobia, RadMooslim red flag
- BM frequents Islamic threads where he has met Sirmike, another red flag
- BM think flagging critics of RadMooslims is “good judgement”, but just means conspiracy threads are crawling with these folks
- BM accuses SirMike of “bigotry” another red flag.
People like BM do a remarkably bad job of hiding their true intentions and what their agenda is. Now a ignorant bigot might put these together and conclude that an Iran-symphathizer who tracks down people to call them Islamaphobes on Islamic newsgroups is part of a deliberate state-sponsored disinformation campaign to harm Israel and shut down critics, and that the same thing has been behind the 9-11 truth movement. But that would be jumping to conclusions, wouldn’t it?
As I’ve said again, Asian Americans need to take a stand on terrorism and the mideast conflict. It does spill over to things closer to Asians like Fukushima. Countries in Asia like the Phillipines have been bases for Al Queda where Ramzi Youself is thought to have met and trained Nichols the Oklahoma City bomber. 9-11 hero Betty Ong was heavily trashed in the slick “Loose Change” propoganda DVD which obviously tried to shift blame for 9-11 by denying Al Queda and Muslim hijackers had nothing to do with the tragedy. Korean Yong Kwon was recruited into the Virginia Jihad Network.
Originally posted by femalefaust
i cannot choose the best reply. would appreciate help:
a) please sir go a little slower. the connective details of your analysis would encourage me to not feel so --- uncomfortable, like i have just been had, especially after visiting your site. did you notice that most if not all of the links you provide go to the same site (yours)? the same place, the same page, no differentiation. was that on purpose? not much activity at that site either, according to the internet archive. this information is presented as entertainment only, since it, in isolation, proves nothing.
b) what have you bought into and how much does it cost to buy you out?
c) i would like to make it clear to everyone reading this that the preceding post and the subject of this thread are in my mind only superficially related.
d) thank you for what info you did provide at your site -- for instance, after checking the links, i think japan DID offer to enrich uranium for iran. AND i also was reminded of the wisdom of testing target links online without visiting them. thank you. in the case of the ynet news article on japan's enrichment offer, visiting directly resulted in being hijacked by a 'you have won' popup that, in its attempt to induce my clicking the "ok" button (doubtless triggering a world of data collection, if such was not already in play) completely locked me out of my browser, out of which i had to force quit to escape. of course you cannot be held responsible for this.
e) what do you call it when the evil fascists controlling the media with propaganda find a way to inject stories superficially uncovering wrongdoing, lies, and corruption, but that go over the top, out to lunch, off the hook as it were, thus draining much needed human resources from the good fight, calling the reputation of anyone who held the original hypotheses (not beliefs, hypotheses) into question, and basically obscuring any good research and contributing to what has been uncovered being disregarded by intelligent but conservative minds who might otherwise have given their unbiased attention to the original, rational, non-whack-job inquiry?
f) can we just ignore the last post?
Originally posted by femalefaust
am new to posting here.
am offering my apologies concerning
a) not using the reply-to feature
b) confusing you with mr. stone. i hate it when i experience that, and it always seems unnecessary, since to me my not being the author of the quoted text is obvious. i always thought it showed a lack of attention, of care. i think that now, and i am sorry (and i never really thought i would be on the other side of that one). o and yes, i must admit, embarrassed. thank you for alerting me to this error so kindly.
c) giving you the impression that some ideas are "off the table." put like that, i take it back, please let me retract my remark about ignoring the post. information stands and falls on its own right : "let right and wrong alone decide." even when it is seriously out to lunch. of course, in the history of our species, some things that were at the time thought seriously out to lunch were, in fact, true, or closer to truth than the accepted wisdom when they were first introduced.
d) sending anyone to a site that would harm their computer. if i recall correctly, there was no such warning at the time for me, although there was one when i went back later. i spent a bit of time, (more than i expected), and found a googlecache of this, an entry in the UPAAN (U-Penn Asian Alumni Network) news aggregator page.
please remember this is an out-of-context repost of a reply to a comment i posted in response to arthur hu's op-ed attempt to discredit 'conspiracy theories,' anti-israeli factions, alex jones, mike rivero, jim stone, and radmooslims (he groups all these together indiscriminately) --
-- a comment which i am tempted to regret having made, given that the reply it engendered was reposted. even if my part is per accidens and not causa. a human temptation; i forgive myself.
sheesh. my apologies, really. i know i had my reasons, but reasons are usually best left out of sincere apologies.
Originally posted by Wertwog
It is a rare person with a great deal of integrity and humility who can admit mistakes, the "admittance" often being too much for the ego to take, and so necessary. We don't learn from our successes, but our failures. Thomas Edison once said that it takes 10000 mistakes to find an answer, and there is an old Buddhist saying that the difference between a Zen master and a novice is 10,000 mistakes.
In the pursuit of truth there are many wrong and misleading paths -- and we are being guided into the diversions and untruths since there are forces that do not want us to know. It takes a strong and clear mind to see into the hairball and not merely orbit it, as most do. Your apology was gracious and unexpected.
Thank you, it was my honor to facilitate your learning. You restored my faith that folks can behave with some integrity on ATS when at first they seem like guard dogs circling their own truth meme's like a delicious pile of half eaten chicken parts. When I make my next mistake (inevitable) I will remember your example. Kudos!
Well, I spent three weeks following that Fukushima story doggedly... then in the end I found out three things...
1) Except for a handful of people and those that live in the area... NO ONE CARES...
2) We are still here... 1000's of nuke tests (especially near my home town) medical radiation, space radiation, CME's, cell tower radiation, microwave radiation... etc etc.. and we are STILL HERE.. and world population is increasing exponentially
3) Radiation is good for you
Originally posted by SirMike
reply to post by thorfourwinds
You seriously need to stop spaming every post with this.