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Contradictions in the bible

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posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by Dezero
 


Sorry if I'm making it confusing. I'll try again: Romans 2:13 in the KJV reads the same as the NIV. Maybe not verbatim, but you can see how it's reading the same. The same goes for Romans 3:20.

Romans 2:13 KJV "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

Romans 2:13 NIV "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous."


Romans 3:20 KJV "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Romans 3:20 NIV "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin."


As for the 10 Commandments, yes Exodus 20 has the first set and it was broken by Moses when he saw his people worshiping Ba'al and having sex, etc. So he goes back up to get the Commandments again. To keep my post from being annoying long, read Exodus 34:1-27. Then tell me if you see anything glaringly wrong.




posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 07:51 AM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


I'm sure you are aware what the Bible says in Deuteronomy chapter 10.

1 "At that time the Lord said to me, 'Hew for yourself two tablets of stone like the first, and come up to Me on the mountain and make yourself an ark of wood.

2 And I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke; and you shall put them in the ark.'

3 So I made an ark of acacia wood, hewed two tablets of stone like the first, and went up the mountain, having the two tablets in my hand.

4 And He wrote on the tablets according to the first writing, the Ten Commandments, which the Lord had spoken to you in the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly; and the Lord gave them to me.

5 Then I turned and came down from the mountain, and put the tablets in the ark which I had made; and there they are, just as the Lord commanded me."

God said that He " will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke; and you shall put them in the ark." , so according to this verse I assume the second tablet had the same words as the first tablet.

I'm still not sure what point you are trying to make.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by Auggie
 


You didn't read Exodus 34:1-27 then. It does mention God saying that he wants Moses to carve out two stones so He can write the same 10 Commandments. So go and READ the chapter/verse I just gave and not quote a different book in the Bible.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


I did read it!

When we take the time to consider what all of scripture says about the second set of tablets, instead of just a short section of scripture, it seems obvious to me that there is no contradiction.

In an earlier post you asked "Which Ten Commandments are you referring to"? Implying that there is more than one set of Ten Commandments.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but you seem to imply that there are at least two sets of Ten Commandments and they are different.

I think that Deuteronomy chapter 10 clearly shows that the words written on the second tablet were the same as the words written on the first tablet. Therefore the second set of Ten Commandments is the same as the first set of Ten Commandments.

Was this not your original question/concern?

If you do not want us to use all of scripture to reply, maybe you should state that upfront.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by Auggie
 


If you did read it then show me. Make a list of what the Commandments in Chapter 20 say and a list of what they say in chapter 34. The fact the Deuteronomy says the commandments read the same as the first aids more to the contradiction. Clearly they do not match even though God said they would. Then God says in chapter 34 that this set would be THE 10 Commandments.

How do you reconcile that?



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by novastrike81
How do you reconcile that?


You're right. The Bible* is evidence that, if God exists, He's malevolent and insane and all but a very select few are doomed to suffer for eternity. If He doesn't, we're ultimately and soon destined for oblivion and nothingness.

Feel better?





*At least the way you're cherry picking it, taking things out of context, not considering the entirety, attempting to take it literally, and failure to discern spiritually.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by MrDesolate
 


V.Nice.

I saw a rather exquisite quote from Mark Twain on ATS a few nights back that offered a similar sentiment, quite powerful:-


...a God who could make good children as easily a bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave is angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice, and invented hell--mouths mercy, and invented hell--mouths Golden Rules and foregiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people, and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites his poor abused slave to worship him!

edit on 7/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 06:26 PM
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www.thinkatheist.com...

"101 Contradictions in the Bible"



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


You are the one implying there is a contradiction between Exodus Chapter 20 and 34. I suggest you read it more thoroughly and find out why.

There are no contradictions in the Bible, only what seem to be contradictions. When we read scripture and don't understand what we have just read, we blame God and say it's too difficult or that there is a contradiction, instead of humbling ourselves and asking God to show us. Gods word is true, it can be trusted.

We have to remember that God knows all things, we don't, although a lot of people think they do. The problem is always with us, not with God. If we approach the reading of His Word with the right attitude He will give us understanding of it eventually, in His timing, not ours.

There is always a reason for what seems to be a contradiction in Gods Word. It is almost always because there is a deeper meaning hidden there. It is for us to seek and search to find out. This is also a way for God to find out how serious/committed we are in wanting to know the truth.

Do we want to have understanding of His Word for our own glory, so we can get on sites like this and prove how smart we are? If it is, He will never give understanding. If it is to glorify Him and have an understanding for ourselves, so we can grow spiritually, as we should, He will give understanding eventually. Understanding Gods Word comes by revelation from Him, not by our I.Q.

www.supremejustice.org...



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
I saw a rather exquisite quote from Mark Twain on ATS a few nights back that offered a similar sentiment, quite powerful:-


...a God who ... created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself;



I totally agree. If only God would have taken the blame on himself instead of making us pay for it.




posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by Auggie

Hi Auggie -

Your childish & wholly naive post claiming in effect, that 'there are no contradictions in the Bible' shows that you are totally unfamiliar with the compex textual situation of the Hebrew Scriptures - especially since the re-discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in November of 1946 which show 'what the Jewish Bible looked like in an earlier stage than the later Masoretic council-approved singular consonantal & pointed text'.

If you were more familiar with ancient languages and could read paleo-Hebrew and Aramaic in the older copies for yourself for letter by letter comparison, you would be singing another tune altogether.

In case you haven't been told (or heard previously), the Dead Sea Scroll MSS fragmented copies of the 'old Testament' and the apocrypha and pseudipigrapha are 1000 years older than the later Masoretic pointed text of the Old Testament (MT) from c. AD 1000 from a single MSS in Leningrad, now St. Petersburg,

The MT is different from the Hebrew and Aramaic Vorlagen (textual underlays, i.e. the source material) to the Greek scriptures used by Jews 'scattered amongst the gentiles' in the Diaspora, the translations of which start to date from around 250 BCE and (see Emmanual Tov's pioneering efforts in this regard over the past 20 years)

Here are some links for Emmanual Tov's work on the sometimes shocking divergences between the Hebew underlay to the Greek Septuaginta LXX and the later Masoretic Hebrew consonantal texts floating around in antiquity...


www.emanueltov.info...

www.emanueltov.info...


It is obvious from serious academic textual studies of the Jewish Scriptures over the past 60 years or so since the re-Discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls cache in caves 1-11 (but not so mucch in the muc later scrolls found in Wadi Muraba'at etc.that were copied after AD 90 i.e. after the Rabinnic Council at Javneh pushed the MT text now used by protestants and Rabinnic Jews to-day as their 'official text' for the Hebrew Scruiptures - voted upon 20 years AFTER the Destruction of Jerusalem by Rome in AD 70) that the Greek Septuaginta Old Testament & Apocrypha (LXX) pre-suppose quite a different Hebrew Consonantal Text Vorlage-underlay as compared letter for letter with the later MT/Masoretic text used by protestants and rabinnic Jews to-day (also: you knew, didn't you, that the Hebrew scriptures were all written without Vowels? It is called the unpointed Consonantal Text, in case it ever comes up in discussion.)

Whereas the Dead Sea Scrolls copies were all sealed up in veritable Time Capsules in June of AD 68 - and bear witness to what the Hebrew scriptural situation appeared 20 years before the Council of Javneh-Jamnia tried to impose a single 'authoritative' text for the 'old testament' on the world.

Interestingly, we also find several copies of fragments of the Sammaritan Penteteuch (SamPent) among these Time Capsuled texts, which bear witness to a 3rd family of textual consonantal traditions which differ from both the Hebrew underlay Vorlage to the Greek Old Testament/ LXX and the MT...at least for the 1st 5 books of the supposedly ancient 'Torah' of the Jews...

At any rarte anyone who claims that the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Masoretic Text and the SamPent are 'exact' copies of each other (i.e. not contradictory) is either :

a. Totally ignorant of the actual textual situation as we see it to-day (e.g. the Book of Jeremiah or the B-2nd Isaiah Scroll 1 QIs-B)

b. a Liar

I suspect you fall into the former category since from the jejune tone of your earlier ATS postings, it seems you cannot even read un-pointed (unvowelled) paleoHebrew or any of the Greek translations and thus cannot see all the hundreds of textual and literal contradictions in the texts for yourself (and we're talking just between the numerous ancient hand written copies here, and not yet about the actual theological or logical contradictions within any book or between books etc. which form a vast subject all their own).

The textual mess for the so-called New Testament (Greek NT) is even worse, with more than 5446 Koine Greek handdwritten MSS dating from the 2nd to the 8th centuries, with no two texts exactly alike (read Bart Erhman's books designed for the general reader on these subjects : e.g. The Orthoddox Corruption of Scripture or MisQuoting Jesus etc.

www.bartdehrman.com...

Bart has done his homework for the general reader - so these books of his are written in 'very plain English' (not academese !) and (albeit lightly !) review for the theological layperson in these matters most of the major problems with the texts of the Greek New Testament - which if you are really really really serious about getting to the absolute truth, you would have to take time to read in detail and make copious notes from them - and then you can be armed enough to ddo your own study (which you should be doing any way, rather than listening 'to your pastor' or other persons who like to keep their sheeple in the dark )

And also, please take a basic paleoHebrew and Greek course so you can really really really understand the complex textual issues involved in such a study - from what you have posted so far on ATS you are wasting my time and many others on this thread with childish ignorant nonsense....

Good luck !








edit on 8-6-2011 by Sigismundus because: gottta lovve mmmyyyy stttuttering keeeeeybboardddd



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by dbates
 


What do you mean "making us pay for it"! You or I didn't pay for anything, Jesus Christ did! HE paid the price for your and my sin, everyone's sin. Almighty God has made it about as simple as he possibly could for an unbelieving world, all you need to do is believe in His Son, Jesus Christ.

But self centered, self absorbed man with his huge ego can't even get that right. He would rather get on sites like this and whine about how awful and unfair God is.

Do yourself a favor and at least make an effort to read your bible before making an asinine comment like that. If you don't have a bible you can attempt to read one on line.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by Auggie
 


I don't mind you embarrassing yourself so much, but you're making the rest of us look bad. It's sarcasm, bro.

See, he used a picture for illustration and everything.

Sheesh. I realized subtlety was lost on this crowd after my post above. At least both sides are equally befuddled.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by Sigismundus
 


Here we go again....I'm still not impressed. You made it clear before that you would rather believe what somebody else has said in a book about God, and the Bible, instead of making the effort to read the Bible and find out for yourself what is true.

Who's the sheeple?



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by Auggie
 



What do you mean "making us pay for it"!


Well Jesus is a homo-sapien, isn't he?.....I guess that can't be proved either, let's assume he is.


You or I didn't pay for anything, Jesus Christ did!


I may be wrong, but i think dbates was reffering to "us" as a collective species, here on Earth, in the Milky Way gallaxy, and thus Jesus too.


HE paid the price for your and my sin, everyone's sin.


So Christianity claims.

I don't even deny the posssibility that a man named Jesus MAY have existed, and may have been a martyr for that age, as was Ghandi, as was Martin Luther King, as was many other humanitarians throughout history. I don't think there's any desire to start "Ghandism" though. Perhaps many years later like the people who formed the biblical doctrines of Christianity.


Almighty God has made it about as simple as he possibly could for an unbelieving world, all you need to do is believe in His Son, Jesus Christ.


If you saw a man tommorow, who offered some kind words, healed the sick, turned water into wine, and was crucified by the state for blasphomy; would you believe he was sent by God?

Do you think that would warrant holy praise and ritual for the next 2000 years?
edit on 8/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by MrDesolate
 


Sorry, I apologize. I jumped. But, with this crowd anything is possible, even posting an illustration of Christ on the Cross to mock Him, is I'm sure, not out of the question.



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by Auggie
 


Whereas Christians commemorate him by crucifiction pendants?

How's that fair?

It is what it is, a human sacrifice, and there's no evidence to suggest God had "willed" it to "save" us all. Or that God intervenes in human affairs at all.


edit on 8/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


What kind of, and how much evidence are you looking for?



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by Auggie
 


Well to prove the "GOD" of religions true i would want evidence of this being:-


.a God who could make good children as easily a bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave is angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice, and invented hell--mouths mercy, and invented hell--mouths Golden Rules and foregiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people, and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites his poor abused slave to worship him!

edit on 8/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 07:08 PM
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First bible contradiction is actually Genesis chapter 1.



Genesis 1v1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.


if the earth was formless and EMPTY, was the water empty too?

Since god did not create air, are we to assume air has always existed with god?
edit on 8-6-2011 by LiveEquation because: (no reason given)



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