It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Contradictions in the bible

page: 3
11
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 04:25 PM
link   
reply to post by D377MC
 



Without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, scriptures do indeed make little sense.


In other spiritual teachings, you wouldn't even be alive without the "indwelling of the Holy Spirit", so from that point of view, I do agree with you.




posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 04:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by D377MC
 



Without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, scriptures do indeed make little sense.


In other spiritual teachings, you wouldn't even be alive without the "indwelling of the Holy Spirit", so from that point of view, I do agree with you.


Hmmm. Is that really a sound argument?

I mean, ofcourse we have to live, if we should be able to read any scriptures at all; but a life-force per se doesn't actually validate any values in any specific texts, only making us able to live and read in general.

And from e.g. a hard-core gnostic or hinayana position, a 'life-force' is what makes us mess up all 'real' existence.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:06 PM
link   
reply to post by bogomil
 



Hmmm. Is that really a sound argument?


It wasn't meant to be an argument, it was only a (failed) attempt to introduce a bit if humour while trying to diffuse the exclusionist position of the biblical Holy Spirit.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 07:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by bogomil
 



Hmmm. Is that really a sound argument?


It wasn't meant to be an argument, it was only a (failed) attempt to introduce a bit if humour while trying to diffuse the exclusionist position of the biblical Holy Spirit.


LOL


Yes - had to read it twice - - but caught the underlying meaning.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 01:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by bogomil
 



Hmmm. Is that really a sound argument?


It wasn't meant to be an argument, it was only a (failed) attempt to introduce a bit if humour while trying to diffuse the exclusionist position of the biblical Holy Spirit.


Sorry, my sense of humour was at the worshop for maintenance, when I answered you. I hope to avoid such blunders in the future.



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 06:54 PM
link   
Hey Groupies

How about trying to make sense of the two CCONTRADICTORY Creation myths of the Jews found in Genesis 1:1 to 2:4a and compare it with all the different order of creation language and Weltanschauung contained in Gen 2:4b to 4:24 -

Notice all the pre-scientific garbage in Gen 1:1 to 2:4a (with all that rot about Firmaments ('req'iak' = 'solid dome' which naturally pre-supposes a flat-earth) and vegetation and herbs being 'created' BEFORE the SUN, MOON and STARS - yeah that really happened - where ELOHIM created male and female in his own image (see the continuation of Myth #1 in Gen 5:2 - and he called THEIR name ADAM) as compared with the 2nd Creation Myth (Gen 2:4b - 4:24) where Hav vah (i.e. the woman) is 'formed' out of Adam's side (i.e. not 'created' together and 'both called Adam')

And a close reading of the two creation myths shows that the ORDER of creation is also quite contradictory (in the 1st myth Gen 1:1 to Gen 2:4a Man is created LAST in a series of plant and animal creations whereas in the 2nd myth (Gen 2:4b to Gen 4:24) Man is 'formed' first (by YHWH-Elohim) and THEN the animals which are all brought to him one by one for the man to name and then mate with, albeit unsuccessfully until one of his own flesh is thrust into Adam's face to deal with (and we all know how THAT turned out...)

Line up the two creation myths for yourself using TWO different coloured highlighters in the two myths in your bibles one day when you're bored and see how many contradictions you can find - over a dozen.

Then there are some other pesky issues with contradictions within the text of the Hebrew Bible - which no Rabbi would like to discuss with his flock while sober, apparently...

See for example, just to take one of many....

'I am YHWH your clan god who borught you (all) out from Mitzrayim (=Egypt). You shall have no other clan-gods in front of me (lit. 'before my faces').'

Sound familiar?

Yet a strict cult prohibition like that one did not seem to stop Mosheh ('Moses') from making a rather elaborate pagan bronze Midianite Snake Idol (cf: the Egyptian snake god 'Hapepi') and sticking it way up on a pole for the benei-Yisreo'el to 'regard' (i.e. burn incense to) in order to cure snake-bite, or some such pre-scientific garbage.

The fact that the various normally contradictory text(s) of the Torah (see the whole mess in Numbers 21:7-9) all seem to tell the same story (with only a few letters different between all the text versions, for once !) makes it all the worse for 'believers' who are not conversant in these little matters, on the whole....e.g. compare the texts of the the paleo-Hebrew underlay to the Greek Old Testament (aka' LXX' Septuaginta, compiled c. 180 BCE)) as compared with the much older Dead Sea Scroll copies of the Torah in Paleo copied c. 350 BCE and the consonantal text underlay to Theodotion's Greek OT and the version of Symmachus & Aquilla compiled by Origen in his Hexapla (and then compare that with the still-older Samaritan Pentateuch, compiled cc. 420 BCE) as compared with the 'now official' rabinnic Jewish Masoretic text (with the arbitrary 'babylonian tradition' vowel pointings added and consonantal text solidified in the so-called Leningrad CCodex c. 960 AD - i.e. a late text) - normally we see a 15-25% difference in the text per column if you count every consonant exactly - but this Moses andd his benei Yisro'el worshipping a Bronze Snake Idol on a Pole thingy really takes the cake in terms of the Israelites not being allowed to worship metal / molten idols.

Then there's Moses' alleged brother ('Aaron') who had a mean habit of making golden calve idols out of spare earings in his spare time - and this pagan idol maker / artificer was supposed to be the founder of the 'holy' priesthood of Yisro'el ...

Then of course there is the sticky issue of the Bronze Bath ('brazen sea') of the priests (Heb. Cohenim) who had to bath in it before offering sacrifices to the clan godd to avert plagues and war etc. Trouble is that the base of the Brazen Sea of the priests was carved with, you guessed it, 12 pagan bronze oxen idols, 3 of the oxen idols facing one direction (i.e. north) 3 facing another (south) 3 facing another (east) and 3 facing still another direction (west).

That makes 12-pagan bronze oxen idols of Moses to add to his infamous Snake Idol on a Pole Thingy (the latter which was ensconced in the 1st temple 'of Jedidiah-Solomon' whicch had incense regularly burned to it (in honour of Moses, no doubt !) for over 400 years ---which is a VERY long time for a pagan smake idol to be worshipped - i.e. they burned incense to it in the 'temple of YHWH' until the time of Hezekiah in the 630's BCE, who promptly had Moses snake idol (which he nicknamed 'Nehushtan', i.e. 'bronze thing' from the original name of the god i.e. Nahash ('snake').

Then if memory serves, there seems to be the ticklish problem of the 2 pagan carved idols called 'Kherubim' (something like olive wood overlaid in gold plate - sounds distinctly idolatrous to me !) whose 'wings' ccovered the so-called Ark of the Covenant which itself had 2 more winged pagan idols on its heavy solid god lid (known as the Khappureth, or 'Seat of Chesed' a.k.a. The Mercy Seat) - more ancient pagan idols / gods to add to the mix

And the Talmud has the hypocritical nerve to call all the goyim (=gentiles, non Jews) 'dumb oxen, sheep and idolaters' !

Then if we bother to compare every word of I-II Samuel and 1-11 Kings with the heavilly edited later text known as I-II Chronicles, we really have some juicy contradictions galore !

Then there are over 250 literal contradictions in the so called Gospels of the New Testament between Matt-Mk-Luke and the 4th Gospel 'of Yohanon' (whoever he was) e.g. to cite just one: did R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir aka Gk. 'Iesous') carry his cross for himself (as it states emphatically in the 4th gospel) or did that unfortunate bystander Shimeon of Cyrene ('the father of Alexander & Rufus) carry it for him (and perhaps get himself nailed up in his place in the process?) Or did the Temple Riot organised by our R. Yehoshua (a case of Terrorism against the state if ever there was one) with all those whips & cords & violence happen at the beginning of the ministry (4th gospel) or the end (the other 3, known as Synoptics) ?

Riddle me that !!



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 05:12 PM
link   
I personally feel that our society's development of religious dogma around the Bible has muddied the kernels of wisdom and truth that it can contain.

The biggest "discrepancy" as I see it is the dogma and intellectual-based belief and "practice" of religion in much of the world today. Jesus, and other spiritual avatars have repeatedly taught the interconnectedness of all life and that the act of divine devotion is to live to the best of your ability with compassion and love for all.

The act of treating everyone and everything as yourself is because it is, in a very real sense, so. In America, we have developed a society giving lip service to the deeper lessons which can be gleaned from religious texts, such as the bible, and actually basing our culture on lower energy states, such as greed.



posted on May, 4 2011 @ 04:44 PM
link   
reply to post by Open2Truth

Hi Open

I'm not sure the 'historical Jesus' (aka R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir, who lived in Palestine c. 12 BCE to 36 CE) would unabashadly 'love and accept' i.e. in one clump 'all life' together as you would have us understand or paint him in our imaginations - at least to judge from the awkward (and sometimes zionist-hateful) Greek words placed into his mouth in the New Testament.

Look very very carefully at the wording (the Greek is worse, but read it in American English if that's all you can do at the moment) of the 3rd canonical 'Greek Gospel' (according to Matithiah, whoever he was) chapter 15 when a SyroPhonecian gentile woman came screaming to him for help near Tyre, in present day Lebanon :

'And the Disciples told her to go away, but she persisted, screaming, Son of David ! Have mercy on me !' to which the good-Rebbe simply replied (or at least, had Greek Words stuck into his Mouth in the Gospel)

"Lady, the Bar Enasha ('son of man') was sent ONLY (Gk: Eutheos) to the Lost Sheep of the Elect of the House of Yisro'el." (in other words, 'Please go away you unclean gentile Dog, you -- I do not have time for your personal goyische problems...')

Which was followed up by yet another insult right to her face: 'And anyway, since when is it right to take the Bread of the Children out of their Mouths and throw it away to the Dogs under the Table?'

It was not really until after Nov AD 1946 when the first Dead Sea Scrolls were being unsealed from their time capsule caves near Khirbet Qumran (they were sealed up in June off 68 CE when the Romans were invading the area, yet again, during the 1st Failed Jewish War against Rome - AD 66-72 ) that scholars saw the term 'unclean gentile Dogs and idolators' being bandied about by 1st century Palestinian Jews as common currency phraseology to refer to gentiles ('goyim") - so the Greek words placed into the mouth of 'Iesous' in the 3rd canonical Gospel ('according to Mattthew") take on extra power to illustrate that perhaps the good Rebbe only referred lovingly to his own followers (e.g. such un-Universal phrases as 'to you my followers, shall be fuly explained the Mystery of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to all others on the outside, everything must be spoken in riddles..." or "let the dead bury their own" (i.e. he treated people DIFFERENTLY outside of his own group).

Scholars use such xenophobicc racist terminology placed into the Greek Speaking 'Iesous' found strewn all over the 'church approved canonical Greek gospels" as more authentic than not because of the 'Criterion of Embarrasment' i.e. they would hardly have made up stories making their hero up to be such a Zionist bigot (i.e. non universal figure); if anything, as Bart Ehrman discovered (to his own personal Shock and Awe) when he finally was able to get down to the nitty-gritty of the Greek texts of all the messy gospel material extant (when he finally arrived at Princeton for his post graduate studies) - the texts USUALLY cover up such racism and zionist xenophobia with more universalist (MSS doctored) expressions

e.g. ('preach the gospel of the kingdom among all nations")

as opposed to the more original Greek text reading: 'preach ye the good news of the Kingdom of Heaven to all the Elect of the House of Yisro'el scattered among the goyim"

The more one digs back into the 'ipsissima verba' of this man, the less universal his words appear, and the more zionist-racist (being after all a child of his times) echoing the Dead Sea Scrolls phraseology almost verbatim at times....

Food for thought anyway.


edit on 4-5-2011 by Sigismundus because: 'Grammatical Howlers' sometimes creep in when one Types fast on these threads !



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 04:28 AM
link   
Lets not forget god (lower case) inspired the original words of the bible. Hundreds of years passed before people documented / wrote of jesus, it was passed down by word of mouth until it was documented. Also, the writings were copied many times over and contain mistranslations and errors.

I read a book about the many mistranslations and errors in the bible that resulted from the scribes, although I cant remember the name of the book. I believe if you truly want to understand the bible, then read it in its original language, Hebrew.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 04:11 PM
link   
reply to post by LaissezFaire

Hi Laissez

Actually, books like 'Daniel' were written originally BOTH in Hebew and Aramaic - and there are a wide variety of ancient Hebrew 'between two covers' of the modern 'Scriptures' of Rabinnic Jews in use to-day - compare the ancient (and hard-to-translate) oracular paleoHeb Poetry (c. 701 BCE) in the Scroll of the Book of Amos the Prophet - with other types of later Hebrew in the 'Hebrew Bible - e.g. the late andd almost 'proto-Mishnaic' Dead Sea Scroll type of Hebew found in the book of Qoheleth ('Ecclesiastes') in a style of language dating from around 190 BCE.

Also - don't forget - the so called New Testament was written not in Hebrew in the texts that have come down to us - but in 1st-2nd century KOINE Greek in a type off style of various grammatical-linguistic competencies probably penned between c. CE 60 to c. 120 CE - notice all the bad ('horrid') Greek foundd in the Book of Revelation (written orig. c. AD 69) - its poor Greek probably being the result of the original document being a combination of Hebrew and Aramaic (like the book of Daniel) with a Christian Greek translator who tried to be 'way too literal' when he attempted to translate the original documents into into Greek - it's full of what we call Greek Grammatical Howlers (i.e. impossible Greek grammar and syntax - but often perfectly acceptable Hebrew and Aramaic syntax ! ).

We also have the 'baby-Greek' of the writer of the 2nd canonical Greek Gospel ('according to Mark' whoever he was) whose work is full of elementary mistakes a newcomer to the language would make (when the 3rd Gospel 'according to Luke' whoever he was, goes ahead and copies out parallel passages in 'Mark' for his own book, notice how he 'cleans up Mark's baby-Greek' as he goes. Ditto for the 1st Canonical Greek Gospel ('according to Matthew' whoever he was) who also when dealing with parallel passages, cleans up Mark's 'baby Greek' as he goes - in a slightly different way but much more grammatical and coherent.

Also the Hebrew scriptures (whatever list you use of the books to refer to that collection) were translated into Greek c. 200-100 BCE in Alexandria (called the LXX-Septuaginta) as well as other Greek translations from other places e.g. the versions of Aquila and Symmachus and don't forget Theodotion's (from which so much of the Book of Revelation quotes !) - which use a much older text version of the Hebrew consonantal Vorlgage (Hebrew 'text underlay') than the MT/Masoretic text of the Hebrew Scriptures (from AD 960 !) in use to-day by Rabinnic Jews and Protestants.

So it's not quite so simple as just learning 'Hebrew' - but if you really want to get 'down and dirty' in examining the 'scriptures' in minute details, learning paleoHebrew (and Aramaic if you have time !) is only the starting point...



edit on 12-5-2011 by Sigismundus because: I type waaay too fast - Talk about your Grammatical Howlers in English !



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 08:50 PM
link   
reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX
 


War of Peace?
G-d has many names in the Bible, part of the reason why He has so many names is because the people of Israel will call upon His name based on what they were going Through. If they were at war then they called upon his name looking for favor as the G-d of war. If they were living in times of prosperity then they would call upon His name as the G-d of peace. Not a contradiction here, simply a title given to G-d depending on the situation and the times they were living in. Also keep in mind both of these texts were written many years apart.

Who is the father of Joseph?
I'm Jewish, same as Jesus (Yeshua), in the contest of Judaism a man will say he is the son of his actual father (ie. Joseph) or also say he is the son of Abraham. This basically means the Bible is talking about lineage not the immediate family member. Again, not a contradiction, you just must know the context of the traditions of the people who wrote the text.

Who was at the Empty Tomb?
By citing the different verses you are answering your own question, these are different accounts of what the people who wrote it heard. Think of this a different news agencies reporting the same story, the vantage point will change based on who's reporting, where they are located, their individual sources, etc. Although the story still is the same, some reports might have more details than others, perhaps they might even vary, but the core of the story still is the same and no less true. Again, not a contradiction just different vantage points.

Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
Lets put it this way, one could say that a teacher and its pupil could represent a same school of thought, they would be equal because they share ideologies, they share the same ideas to others, they "walk" through lessons and experiences together... they are "equal" However, the teacher is also "greater" because of more experience, more knowledge, etc. The same applies to a father-and-son situation. One could say that they both are equal because they are part of the same family, lineage, they share the same blood, perhaps same physical traits, maybe even they think alike, act alike, etc, however, the father is greater due to experience, knowledge, etc. Simple concept and once again, not a contradiction.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 08:59 PM
link   
reply to post by AnimositisominA
 


Correct me if I am wrong but ALL scriptures (scriptures here meaning writings not just the Bible) are written to be interpreted in different ways. If you read the latest Twilight book or a book about history you will still interpret its contents even slightly different than your fellow readers, the substance of the stories we all get it but again, we still interpret it differently.

With that said, what is your point then?



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 10:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxX


And your (sic) right, different sects can't agree on ANYTHING, catholics and baptists even have separate 10 commandments!

Catholics and Baptists have separate 10 Commandents? Where on Earth did you get that idea? It's just not true.
Vicky



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 11:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by ganja
Isn't this a bit redundant in a faith that only believes in one supreme being?

No, not unless you're being extremely literal minded!
In the NT Paul refers to people making a god of their stomach/appetites. That's what's being referred to here. Some people make a god of their flag, their country (Americans, I am looking at you!). Others, of their sexuality, and others, their ego (OP?
)


Originally posted by ganja Point in case: Easter. Where do you think the easter bunny and eggs are from?

Bunnies and eggs have as much to do with the Ressurection as Santa has to do with Christmas. Nothing at all, in other words.

Originally posted by ganja between older characters in other religions, myths, etc. (i.e. Gilgamesh and Dionysus) and Jesus.

What similarities? If you look into I think you'll find that Infidels.org has put you crook, there, mate!
V.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 11:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by Annee

Sorry - - - but the bible and its interpretations are open to everyone.


No, it's really not! (That's where Protestants get into trouble, because they believe that every man (and most of them stress man can make his own interpretation, but the Bible itself says otherwise.
Vicky



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:04 AM
link   

Originally posted by LaissezFaire
Lets not forget God (lower case) inspired the original words of the bible. Hundreds of years passed before people documented / wrote of Jesus, it was passed down by word of mouth until it was documented. Also, the writings were copied many times over and contain mistranslations and errors.

I read a book about the many mistranslations and errors in the bible that resulted from the scribes, although I cant remember the name of the book. I believe if you truly want to understand the bible, then read it in its original language, Hebrew.

Why the lower case? (You draw attention to it, as well - why? Just to be childishly insulting? (I just had to correct your deliberate rudeness. Even if you want to insist you don't believe in God, Jesus is a name, and ought to be capitalised, whether you're writing in English, American or any other language!
You are clearly mixing up the Old and New Testaments. The OT was written in Hebrew, the New, in Greek.
Beware of basing your anti-Christian ideas on a book you read once, especially as you can't even remember the title and who wrote it!

Because whatever the book was, it was wrong. The time between Jesus' and the first books of the NT was 50 years. (Although afaik, the last books of the NT date to as much as 150 years later.) They were not all written at once.
The New Testament we have is generally very reliable, far more than your forgotten book would have you think..
First link
Wikipedia
Vicky



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 07:23 AM
link   
reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX

I think the Apostle Paul explains it the best in First Corinthians Chapter 2 (NRS) as to why the natural, unbelieving man does not understand God's Word.

1 When I came to you, brothers and sisters, I did not come proclaiming the mystery of God to you in lofty words or wisdom. 2 For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 3 And I came to you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling. 4 My speech and my proclamation were not with plausible words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith might rest not on human wisdom but on the power of God. 6 Yet among the mature we do speak wisdom, though it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to perish. 7 But we speak God's wisdom, secret and hidden, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But, as it is written, "What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the human heart conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him"— 10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For what human being knows what is truly human except the human spirit that is within? So also no one comprehends what is truly God's except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the gifts bestowed on us by God. 13 And we speak of these things in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual things to those who are spiritual. 14 THOSE WHO ARE UNSPIRITUAL DO NOT RECEIVE THE GIFTS OF GOD'S SPIRIT, FOR THEY ARE FOOLISHNESS TO THEM, AND THEY ARE UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE SPIRTUALLY DISCERNED. 15 Those who are spiritual discern all things, and they are themselves subject to no one else's scrutiny. 16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 01:53 PM
link   
reply to post by Auggie

Hi Auggie

Those are pretty fancy Koine Greek words coming out of the man Shao'ul of Tarsus (in Cilicia, present day Turkey) aka 'Paul' - who never met R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (Gk: Iesous) in person...only in dreams and visions...a little like my housekeeper.

This Saulus-Paulus personage not only did NOT know 'the Teacher' in person, he even hated (read Galatians chapter 2, in English if you can't handle the vitriolic Greek original !) the original Messianic Galilean follower-disciples of R. Yehoshua - calling them (in Galatians chapter 2) 'those so-called Pillars of the Church (i.e. R. Yakkov bar Yosef haTsadddiq = 'James, the brother of the "Lord') and R. Yohanon bar Zavdai (one of the 2 Bbenei Regesh - i.e. 'sons of Thunder') 'hypocrites' - the two founders of the 'Poor Ones' (Heb. Ha-Evionim) who together operated the Nazorean 'Ebionite' Daviddic 'Kosher-Loving' Circumcision-loving, Works-based, Torah-based, 1st century anti Roman Messianic movement out of Jerusalem - and who anathemetised the 'warped' Pauline doctrine of 'salvation by faith alone' - (read the mangled Epistle of James - 'faith without Works of the Torah is D-e-a-d...") that is until the group was pummelled to a nub during the 1st Failed Jewish War against Rome (66-72 CE) when Jerusalem was destroyed.

Have you checked out Hyam Maccoby's insightful (though only in places, cursory) book, The Mythmaker : Paul and the Invention of Christianity yet?

www.amazon.com...

If not, it might open your eyes a little to the facts of these uncomfortable little doctrinal matters....of which you seem blissfully unaware....
edit on 20-5-2011 by Sigismundus because: Hyam spells his name funny...



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 08:27 PM
link   
reply to post by Sigismundus
 


Sigismundus,

And your reason for responding to my posting was for ......what?? Was it to show us all that you know some Hebrew and Greek? O.K. I'm impressed....I think. You say that Paul did NOT know Jesus. Really! I suggest you read Acts 9:1-19 and the book of Romans, better yet, try reading all of Paul's letters instead of reading some obvious unbelievers writings ABOUT Paul's letters.

Really, you just proved Paul's point in verse 14. The KJV says in verse 14, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him; Natural, meaning the sensuous nature, as opposed to the spiritual.

Have you ever asked yourself why you are so antagonistic towards Gods Word?



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 10:53 PM
link   
reply to post by Auggie

Hi Auggie

As someone who has spent decades studying Greek and Hebrew/Aramaic scriptural manuscripts, I would have to ask the obvious question - what exactly (i.e. precisely, and in what mss Text version) do you consider THE WORD?

You did know, didn't you, that the Hebrew scriptures are written mostly without vowel pointings, and that there existed prior to AD 70 at least (4) FOUR different families of texts, e.g. the 'Babylonian' family of proto-Masoretic unpointed consonantal family of texts (which was not finished until c. 1000 AD) , the Samaritan Pentatech Nablus area Palestinian family of text manuscripts (dating from around 400 BCE), the various Hebrew Vorlagen (Hebrew and Aramaic unpointed textual underlay source manuscripts dating to c. 350 BCE) whichconstituted the Heb. source texts to the later Greek Septuaginta LXX (mostly translated at Alexandria in Egypt by c. 250 BCE) which were found among the Dead Sea Scroll fragments, and the Palestian Hebrew Vorlagen to the Aquila and Theodotion family of texts used by them in the 2nd century AD...take a look at the earliest versions of the Book of Jeremiah for example - different from the Masoretic version (used by Protestants and Jews to-day) by more than 27% if you count letter for letter and column for column on the scroll....

No two texts of which match letter for letter (there is an approx. 15% to 20% difference between these various versions of the Hebrew scriptures which circulated prior to the Fall of Jerusalem in 72 CE (or if you will, the Council of Javneh [in 90 CE] decision to make the Babylonian family (protoMasoretic) THE official family of texts for the Hebew 'old testament' which was not decided for example until more than 40 years AFTER the execution of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (c. 36 CE) or more than 20 years after the death of this Saulos-Paulos personage...who never met him 'in the flesh' but only in 'dreams and visions' (like my cook) despite the fact that he claimed to be an 'apostle'....

No wonder the author of the Apocalypse of Yohanon (an Ebionite Nazorean Jerusalemite Torah-abiding priestly trained Messianic Apocalypticist writing from Exile c. 69 CE) i.e. right in the middle of the 1st Failed Jewish Revolt against Rome (66-72 CE) called him (and his followers) 'persons who style themselves Jews, but are not Judaeans, but rather are of the Synagogue of Belial (Satan)...'



As for the Manuscript mess of the so-called New Testament, there are roughly 5446 Greek manuscripts extant, no two alike - I think Dr Bart Ehrman of North Carolina has written a few books for the layman to understand some of the issues that scholars have to contend with regarding the convoluted textual mess of the Greek New Testament - which has never been reconciled...'to this day...'

Not to burst your little bubble, or anything...



new topics

top topics



 
11
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join