Ultimate Scuttlebutte.. The US government cant pay its sailors

reply to post by ripcontrol


Military budgets are effective as of 0ct 1. The pentagon just made there budget requests for 2012. The military current budget started oct 1 2010 and ends oct 1 2011. In ther words there funded until october of this year.

Originally posted by Juston
reply to post by zbeliever

 

And she would be correct, as he is a non vital civilian employee.

reply to post by superman2012

 

The only person who's feelings I trust is Han Solo's

And budget deficits are not from a play book, but from idiots in general.

HAHAHA...fair enough. Just saying we don't know how they will react. Can't print anymore money..so what else?

reply to post by ripcontrol


Please refer to this post , this post & this one too.

Not gonna happen, and I'd hate see some misinformed E-1 read all your inside info and take it at face value, then perhaps do something silly.

Enough fear mongering please.

I know the budget schedule is from october to october...


I have to say this...

I hope and pray this is WRONG.... completely...

In good conscious I could not say anything and then it be true... How many here would be hurt by not knowing...

My friend who alerted me to this.. HAS NEVER lied over anything... He worked for me while I was in ...
I was contacted so that I could protect my two sons...

He wanted to make sure I has finished some of my preparations...

I am with you and hope this is all wrong.. otherwise TSHHTF

As for the budget...

You see appropriations process your referring to has already spent ALL the money.. If they spent it all they can ask for more in the next cycle.. if they dont spend it they LOSE it...

Remember those carriers cost a LOT (over millions and millions) to operate...

It will not be just hitting the navy

reply to post by Juston


I am not trying to fear monger...

It was a call out of the blue.... out of the blue...

and the side information from others... no good sir I actually hope you are 100% percent right


this is one of the times I want to be wrong... completely...

I need actually another six months... six more months...

Thank you for the calming effect here and preventing in all your attempts at fear mongering by other... I would star you twice...

But like I said, I want to be wrong here... so badly do I want to be.. Someone else in east coast is looking into it for me, but they cant get back to me...

Again.. I always appreciate those who have knowledge outside mine.. like I said, do you mind digging some yourself...post what you find...

reply to post by ripcontrol


Here this should make you feel better then. Currently the president is trying to get the 2012 budget throug congress. And hes got untill oct 1st so the military wont go with out pay. Read this article


2012 military budget

Straight from the Navy times

U.S. troops could be required to report to work without pay if a budget clash in Congress results in a government-wide shutdown, according to draft planning guidance circulating in the Pentagon. A shutdown could happen as early as next week, as the government is set to run out of money at midnight March 17. A bill that would keep the government operating temporarily has been prepared in the House of Representatives, but it is not clear when or if it might pass.

And according to the article this also includes DEFENSE EMPLOYEES. It also says they will receive back pay depending on whether it's approved. WTF?!?! Our troops WORK for a living! They deserve to be paid. NO where in the contract does it say they will be government slaves. Instead of our government sending Brazil millions of US dollars to drill for oil off their shore, how about they pay those who give up everything to protect this country and all it stands for...just a thought...

online wjs

All uniformed military personnel would be deemed essential and would remain on the job. Pentagon spokesman Col. David Lapan said the war in Afghanistan would continue. "You have to keep the Department of Defense operations going," he said. "We have combat troops in the field."

The administration could invoke the "Feed and Forage Act," an authority that goes back to the Civil War and allows the military to incur basic expenditures, including pay and food.

odd...

MILITARY OPERATIONS All uniformed military personnel would likely be exempted from a shutdown. Operations in Afghanistan would continue. Current law gives the Pentagon authority to incur expenses for wartime operations and to sign new contracts for certain needs.

so far everything they have told them appears to be on par...

It said nothing about paying them only housing and feeding... JAG can stop all evictions and late payment garbage... in addition a slush fund or two being tapped they can operate but they are going to have serious discipline and morale issues...

No its is going to suck... I see no evidence anywhere they will be paid only provided for

big difference in terms... pay can be given later

smells of spin...

FCW

The military has faced budget shortfalls before, although there has not been a government shutdown since the Clinton administration. But as recently as 2008, DOD made plans when it looked like Congress might not approve supplemental war funding in time.

In that plan, reported Richard Walker in Federal Computer Week, officials also anticipated requiring military personnel to continue to serve without pay while furloughing non-essential civilian personnel.

and it is legal as long as they promise to pay...

and

Federal Times

Troops could be required to report to work without pay if a budget clash in Congress results in a government-wide shutdown, according to draft planning guidance circulating in the Pentagon.

A shutdown could happen as early as next week, as the government is set to run out of money at midnight March 17. A bill that would keep the government operating temporarily has been prepared in the House of Representatives, but it is not clear when or if it might pass.

The memo is the key to this discussion on proof..

I have to disagree with assessments of the fear mongering....

It appears from some public sources that it has a large ring of truth to it...

So I will say no, till the memo is published that is referenced.. I go with the man who had my back as accurate... I hope he is wrong but it does not sound like it...

ps... saying a source is the national examiner type is not the equivalent of the source of this printed information is the same... (they scooped a few people to BTW)

the memo and the name of writer and receiver(s) is the key.. fear mongering is not an accurate call here.. the memo..

reply to post by ripcontrol


Explanation: S&F!

Empty promises garantee NOTHING!

Personal Disclosure: Especially when the Bank account is empty!

P.S. Good luck keeping all those armed and dangerous miltary personal from being pissed off and mad as hell. Lucky for the US that they are stationed [trapped] overseas currently! I wonder how long that will last???

Stop counting your chickens... they haven't come home to roost yet!

I'm with you on this OP, stock markets are hurting , dollar down ,gas up and they will require funding for Libya in this budget request .Goverment has the pretense for a fake loggerhead disagreement .

From the Navy times
If government shuts down, so would troop pay

By Rick Maze - Staff writer
Posted : Friday Mar 11, 2011 12:08:58 EST

U.S. troops could be required to report to work without pay if a budget clash in Congress results in a government-wide shutdown, according to draft planning guidance circulating in the Pentagon.

A shutdown could happen as early as next week, as the government is set to run out of money at midnight March 17. A bill that would keep the government operating temporarily has been prepared in the House of Representatives, but it is not clear when or if it might pass.

The government has been operating under a series of temporary appropriations, known as continuing resolutions, since Oct. 1 because of lawmakers’ inability to agree on how much money to provide federal agencies. Budget discussions have become increasingly complicated since the November general elections resulted in a divided legislature, with Republicans controlling the House and Democrats controlling the Senate.

Either the history keeps repeating itself, or someone's been getting some interesting ideas recently, drawing inspiration from the actual historical events.

Army working without being payed? Hmmm... that did actually happen in North America... once. And it took very little to end very badly for the newly-formed Republic. The British would have most certainly got their control of the North American Colony back, were it not for a single man who turned the tide of events. Unfortunately, the British cabal eventually won the war in civilian (pseudo-legal) ways, but some wars get won, and some get lost.

I will let history speak for itself.

www.earlyamerica.com...

I don't believe there will be anyone this time around to turn the tide like George Washington did. If there's a mutiny in the military, it's not going to be stopped by anyone, least of all Congress, and its (hidden) goal will not be to put anyone in power (since 'they' already are in power in the U.S.). The only goal I can think of is to weaken U.S. defensive capabilities before the overt takeover.

A complex problem, but the simplest form of explanation would go something like this - when an enemy has been hiding in the shadows, pulling all the strings from the darkness of the night, and has finally reached a point when no further advancement can be achieved with the same method, the only course of action left to pursue is to step into the light of the day and present itself openly. But for that approach to work, all potential defenses must be taken down. That also includes military defenses.

If anything like stopping pays to the U.S. military does happen, I can only quote these words:

"The Army (considering the irritable state it is in, its suffering and composition) is a dangerous instrument to play with."
George Washington, letter to Alexander Hamilton, April 4, 1783

Just another interesting bit of information. George Washington did seem to actually know what he was doing. His addressing words to the officers clearly show the knowledge:

"... By thus determining, and thus acting, you will pursue the plain and direct road to the attainment of your wishes. You will defeat the insidious designs of our Enemies, who are compelled to resort from open force to secret Artifice..."
www.pbs.org...

What I find especially funny is that exactly the opposite strategy is required today in order to defeat those same Enemies. What is needed is to draw them out of their secret hiding places by forcing them to use open force.

Funny how things work in the real world, isn't it?

reply to post by ripcontrol


Well, scuttlebutt, is just another form of hearsay.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Scuttlebutt

Scuttlebutt in slang usage means rumor or gossip, deriving from the nautical term for the cask used to serve water (or, later, a water fountain).

The term corresponds to the iconic colloquial concept of a water cooler in an office setting, which at times becomes the focus of congregation and casual discussion.

Water for immediate consumption on a sailing ship was conventionally stored in a scuttled butt:

A butt (cask) which had been scuttled by making a hole in it so the water could be withdrawn.

Since sailors exchanged gossip when they gathered at the scuttlebutt for a drink of water, scuttlebutt became Navy slang for gossip or rumours.

...and...

Quote from : Wikipedia : Hearsay

Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience.

When submitted as evidence, such statements are called hearsay evidence.

As a legal term, "hearsay" can also have the narrower meaning of the use of such information as evidence to prove the truth of what is asserted.

Such use of "hearsay evidence" in court is generally not allowed.

This prohibition is called the hearsay rule.

For example, a witness says "Susan told me Tom was in town".

Since the witness did not see Tom in town, the statement would be hearsay evidence to the fact that Tom was in town, and not admissible.

However, it would be admissible as evidence that Susan said Tom was in town, and on the issue of her knowledge of whether he was in town.

There are a number of significant exceptions to the hearsay rule.

I am not saying this is incorrect, nor am I saying anything derogatory, especially not against you.

But scuttlebutt, like office gossip around the watercooler, is just that, gossip.

It is as well just as speculative as the Stock Market, Government, Law Enforcement in some aspects.

On top of this a malicious individual, might start scuttlebutt, just to be an ass and cause waves.

In essence, scuttlebutt, office gossip, or any other form of intelligence gathering is prone to disinformation.

Again, not saying it is incorrect, nor am I accusing anyone it is just a statement of facts I know.

Without confirmation is just like a conspiracy theory run amok without any real credence.

It is valueless unless it comes out to be true and or if the intent is to make waves and charge emotions with people worried about job loss, job changes, and or corporate espionage is used towards sabotage, and I think it is following a course with all of the other political rumors in Washington D.C. about Government shutdowns, and seems as if Barack Obama is following Bill Clinton's template of nonsense.

If you ask me.

And you did.

Charles B. Rangel : Universal National Service Act, Being Investigated By An Ethics Committee,...

Now, ask me if I know more, and I'm likely to deny knowledge, and or tell you to research it.

reply to post by ripcontrol


Wow, so the government pretty much pulled a Shangi-Hai on the entire U.S Navy.

reply to post by Procession101


It's not just the Navy it's ALL branches... as well as some Defense employees

Update:

You sitting down...


I know this qualifies as second hand..

Today the CO told the boat "You will come to work and those who dont will be punished..."

That was verbatim....

I truly believe him so I am aiming at timing.... Either they fix the budget or they will get this....


I have dug up responses... Most of what they say is that the majority will NOT come in... Thats right they will, NOT come in...

Breach of contract!!!! buzzwords he is hearing

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At this time I will risk the egg on my face...

First I will assume some response here have been some people trying to be alpha.... Come on guess again....


If I was in charge of a Naval vessel.. (pay attention you idiot agent provocateurs) (yeah Ill give you a freebie to fix it) (dont like being called it oh well... *snip by ripcontrol*)

Here is how I would do it... If it is this bad....truly (I am leaving out a qualifying BTW)

First order the XO to withdraw all the cash his account as I do the Same....(If he is the officer I trust)

Next call in all the MA's ( Master At Arms ) and order everyone else out

Next Inform them they and their families will be paid guaranteed...show them the cash and have their seinor or master go with the captain to put it in a safe deposit box.... As the first approaches run drills (start say the 28th) give no time for planning...

Make sure of two things...

one..

Only the MA have guns... period... search the ship for a CNO inspection

lock down the armory and allow no one but the MA's serve as quarterdeck to the boat

two

no one is allowed off the boat during the drills period... no exceptions....

As a side note you transporting any Marines????

Either pay them as supplemental to the MA (trust me they will enjoy the security detail)

Get them off you boat ASAP....

*******************************************************************************************************************************

How do I think this will go down...

Should they not be able to pay....

Even after the discipline problems round out...(put down like dogs and quickly, no mercy)

They will issue chits for the pay... spendable at nex and boat stores

These will be usable by the DOD personnel and family members (groceries, day care, ect....)...

If JAG buys in, (IF)

They will control the outside things... they can stop all evictions, foreclosure, credit interest and repos.... With no paying back [they argue with jag, the sailor or soldier owns the vehicles, house, or owes nothing (and no issues with the credit report)]

Any monies being paid to the courts by said members or their families will be stop due to national security or some other excuse and they will tell the court tough luck either accept it or they dont owe you.. ( they will invite the law on base and then arrest them...) ( rumor is that the marine core did it to a whole parish in Louisiana now this is pure rumor)


And the civilians and state courts they are dealing with lose in court automatically due to federal law in all of the above...

*********************************************


With strong leadership they will follow to hell and back, unfortunately ...

most commands have trouble finding the open end of the wet sack

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His main thing isnt the pay, and never has been... he took an oath and that oath had no clause of

....unless I am not paid....

my friends are all rare breeds.. all most extinct now days... Honor, Courage, And Commitment mean something...

NRC

ENLISTED OATH When you become a member of the U.S. Navy, you will be sworn in by a commissioned officer. You will be asked to repeat the following oath: I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. I swear (or affirm) that I am fully aware and fully understand the conditions under which I am enlisting.

I also told my friend to stay by his command and support them ruthlessly... Honest to god neither one of us think that the surface fleet is well lead... I personally expect it to fall apart....

I will not speak for the conditions of the leadership of the other branches...


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Please as on last part consider this...


How after you make sure the people stay, are you going to pay for the ships supplies....

They have no money...

Are the ground troops going to throw rocks or...

"Sorry PFC james you expended your monthly allowance for rationed bullets come back in a month..."

No money... Credit for jet fuel....


(please note I am not worried about special forces they have a habit of finding a lot of what the need as "gear adrift" ) (If I was the CIA I would double the guard on my supply depots... )

no news is good news I guess...

the only thing I have is still rumor and needs double checking... (two verbal sources)

(I hope it is ok I tag them like this... i.e.ex # then type of what)

the e-5 and below unless married are losing BAH....

have any of you found any more interesting tidbits .... some of you indicated you would ask family and friends and yet silence... so I am curious...

thank you again

goverment shutdown... ats thread not mine

army to it seems...

reply to post by Jim Scott


That's the best thing that we are goo at..... printing money...... it's not hard when you are the worlds reserve currency!