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No true Scotsman, no true Christian.

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posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Christians are told to "judge" a person by their "fruit"


would you mind showing me this quote?




posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Christians are told to "judge" a person by their "fruit"


would you mind showing me this quote?


Sure, Jesus speaking:


"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Matthew 7:15-20



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Christians are told to "judge" a person by their "fruit"


would you mind showing me this quote?


Sure, Jesus speaking:


"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Matthew 7:15-20


thats all well and good, it doesn't say Judge anyone.... You understand people by their actions but accept them for who they are regardless of said actions.

Im sorry but jesus didn't once say "judge any man"



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Okay, how are we to know if a person's "fruit" is good or evil unless we judge that fruit??? Kinda goes without saying.




edit on 15-3-2011 by NOTurTypical because: "if"



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


Okay, how are we to know is a person's "fruit" is good or evil unless we judge that fruit??? Kinda goes without saying.


No it doesn't....you don't judge their fruits(actions) you understand their actions, and accept them for who they are... By judging them you're saying you are more right then they are....thus putting yourself above them.



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


Okay, how are we to know is a person's "fruit" is good or evil unless we judge that fruit??? Kinda goes without saying.


No it doesn't....you don't judge their fruits(actions) you understand their actions, and accept them for who they are... By judging them you're saying you are more right then they are....thus putting yourself above them.


That would be true if we used arbitrary means to judge them. But we are to use the Word of God to judge. If a person's actions are contrary to the written Word and we agree with that it's actually the written Word that is doing the "judging".



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


Okay, how are we to know is a person's "fruit" is good or evil unless we judge that fruit??? Kinda goes without saying.


No it doesn't....you don't judge their fruits(actions) you understand their actions, and accept them for who they are... By judging them you're saying you are more right then they are....thus putting yourself above them.


That would be true if we used arbitrary means to judge them. But we are to use the Word of God to judge. If a person's actions are contrary to the written Word and we agree with that it's actually the written Word that is doing the "judging".


You are not a judge, nor are you supposed to judge any man if you claim to follow your christ.

You say you use the word of God, well the bible isn't the word of God its the word of man... You can agree with what it says all you want, but the fact is if you judge another man you can not be a follower of christ by your own logic.

Your own fruits betray your words...



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Alright, we'll just cut Matthew 7:15-20 out of the Bible. Any other teachings of Christ you don't approve of?



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


lol, i approve of all christs teachings my friend...

which part would you be refering to, perhaps i can clairify

this?

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
edit on 15-3-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Where do you see the writer of this passage telling you to judge another man?

As i've said, you accept them for who they are....you don't judge them.



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
You are not a judge, nor are you supposed to judge any man if you claim to follow your christ.


Actually, no, that's not the case, and a common misunderstanding.

We are not to judge and condemn, but we are clearly led to judge -- how is one to determine what is right or wrong if they are not allowed to judge? There are also admonitions against judging non-believers, but within the church, Paul's letters to the Corinthians and Galatians, among others, clearly indicate that it is our responsibility to maintain the integrity of teaching.



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Akragon
You are not a judge, nor are you supposed to judge any man if you claim to follow your christ.


Actually, no, that's not the case, and a common misunderstanding.

We are not to judge and condemn, but we are clearly led to judge -- how is one to determine what is right or wrong if they are not allowed to judge? There are also admonitions against judging non-believers, but within the church, Paul's letters to the Corinthians and Galatians, among others, clearly indicate that it is our responsibility to maintain the integrity of teaching.


*sigh* alright...again show me where "jesus" tells you to judge another man in your bible.

You should know whats right or wrong, your conscience tells you exactly what is right or wrong....weather you chose to listen to it is your issue.

You are not to judge another man in any circumstances.....perhaps you misunderstand what judgeing someone is...you condem them by your judgements which is not for you to do...

Btw...paul did not know christ.
edit on 15-3-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
*sigh* alright...again show me where "jesus" tells you to judge another man in your bible.


You've been going on about one example right here -- Matthew 7:15-20. How are you supposed to differentiate between false prophets and true if you can't judge them? How are you even supposed to live your life if you can't make judgements? That's just ludicrous.

The key is not condemning -- that is for God, and God alone. But if you see a fellow believer acting in a bad manner, you should correct them and try and get them back on the right track, which would be impossible if you weren't able to ascertain that they were wrong in the first place.



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Akragon
*sigh* alright...again show me where "jesus" tells you to judge another man in your bible.


You've been going on about one example right here -- Matthew 7:15-20. How are you supposed to differentiate between false prophets and true if you can't judge them? How are you even supposed to live your life if you can't make judgements? That's just ludicrous.

The key is not condemning -- that is for God, and God alone. But if you see a fellow believer acting in a bad manner, you should correct them and try and get them back on the right track, which would be impossible if you weren't able to ascertain that they were wrong in the first place.


That passage does not say Judge another man....

Again, you can't show me the passage im asking for....why? Because it doesn't exist.

As i've said every man knows whats right and whats wrong....thats right every man without exception. If you can't live your life without judgeing another....perhaps you need to do some soul searching.
Ludicrous? Nonsence!

By judging you're condeming...its as simple as that. Judge NOT lest ye be judged...

Yes, you can correct someone if you see something is "wrong" in your opinion...correcting isn't judging. If he accepts your correction its all good, but if he doesn't do you continue to push your belief on him? By doing so you're judging him instead of accepting him for his faults.

Im amazed how many of you "christians" don't even know your own saviours teachings...



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Yes but making judgements and judging somebody are 2 diffrent acts.



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
Yes, you can correct someone if you see something is "wrong" in your opinion...correcting isn't judging.


I suspect that we are struggling with semantics, because, yes, correcting is, by its nature, judging. Why correct someone unless they are doing something wrong? And how can you determine whether it's wrong without judging it?


If he accepts your correction its all good, but if he doesn't do you continue to push your belief on him? By doing so you're judging him instead of accepting him for his faults.


The Christ specifically tells us to judge, because that's exactly what he says to do with people who are wrong.


If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
-- Matthew 18:15-17 (NIV)


In other words, when you disagree with a fellow believer (an obvious judgement,) there is a process that Christ teaches to correct them, with the final result being that you kick them out of the church if they just won't listen.



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
Again, you can't show me the passage im asking for....why? Because it doesn't exist.


Well, there is always this, I suppose.


Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.
-- John 7:24 (ESV)


How are you supposed to "judge with right judgement" if you can't judge?



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Im sorry you don't understand, thats fine either way. Believe what you must...


If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector


this doesn't say judge your fellow man....


Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.
-- John 7:24 (ESV)


Finally someone found what i was looking for....my thanks

heres the rest of that passage...

21Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.

22Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers
and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

23If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.


Unfortunatly again i believe this is one of the many passages that have been altered according to someones agenda...

Why would jesus contradict his own words, unless those were not his words....

Luke 6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Matthew 7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

john 12:47
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Even christ did not judge, but he... Unlike you or myself can judge....because he is sent from God

As is stated here...
John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

So...are you compareing yourself with jesus? Are you rightous according to God, or according to your book?

Careful with your answer...because as i've stated God did not write your bible....

No my friend, you should not judge any man no matter what his issue.... Again as i've said before, you know whats right in your heart, you know another mans heart according to his works or even his words....But you are not to judge any man according to his work or his words because you are not rightous, nor is any man.



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I'm sorry, but everything from the nature of Christ to the idea of salvation is an issue of conflict. There are three main schools of thought on salvation, that is hardly a minor issue. There are four schools regarding the divinity of Christ. There are several schools of thought on how the Bible should be interpreted.

Those are all major issues. You cannot reasonably argue that a specific perspective within a religion constitutes a 'true' Christian because there are passages to back up the main schools of thought...which is why those main schools of thought happen to exist.

A Christian can only be defined in the loosest sense. A follower of a religion founded around the 'mythology' of Jesus.



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


well said



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