Does Zinc Really Work? Yup! Vitamin C? Not so much...

Originally posted by unityemissions

If your point is that we must now ingest these very large doses by supplements, so it must be unnatural and detrimental.... well, I just think that's illogical.

Easy now. I never once said it was detrimental. I did say, regarding megadosing vitamin c:

It's just a little unreasonable. And completely unnecessary.

Not detrimental.

I have no problem whatsoever ingesting grams of ascorbic acid daily, popping a few pills or taking in some powder.

Understandable. But realize that many people do, especially given the lack of evidence.

If it works for nearly every other animal out there, then I'll go with common sense and say that it would benefit our health, in seemingly subtle, yet actually profound ways. I'll take the risk.

With all due respect, and I do respect your contribution to this forum, THAT is a perfect example of illogical and fallacious reasoning. If I lived on the coast isolated from many forms of land animals and I saw that fish and other water dwelling animals could survive for long periods of time underwater, and often times limitless, does that mean its common sense I can do the same? No.

That's a basic way of looking at it. I know. But it's the easiest way to describe just how elementary your assumption is.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

I meant that in modern times, you won't die from it, because we all have fairly healthy diets. Vitamin C is obviously of great benefit. Intravenous injections of it have cured many people of illness.

Yes, what I'm saying is that you won't be harmed from lack of it, but you stand to gain from megadosing. All of this is explained in Pauling's book.

Also, there is nothing unnatural about supplementation. The body does this naturally by inciting a craving for a particular food when certain nutrients are lacking. If you lack calcium, for example, you might suddenly have an urge to eat lots of yogurt. That is basically the body telling you to supplement.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Where in nature are you going to find most of the common drugs are currently used to treat varying illness?

Just because it's not in nature doesn't mean it can't work.

originally posted by: DevolutionEvolvd
Vitamin C's efficacy in preventing and treating common colds has been the subject of debate for over half a century. In theory, Vitamin C supplementation should increase immune function. In practice...not so much. In studies? Last year, the Cochrane Collaboration published an extensive review of the literature on Vitamin C and cold prevention/duration/severity. Their criteria for selecting studies to review are strict, allowing only the highest of quality with the least amount of bias.

Pretty much all of those Vitamin C studies are flawed, in that they use extremely low (non-therapeutic) doses.

Of course, your link is broken, so I can't prove that, but if you fix it, I will.

For now, I'll submit this for your edification...

The NIH has itself acknowledged that Vitamin C has serious antiviral and antibacterial properties.

Two Excerpts from the linked study...

From the Abstract:
"Two controlled trials found a statistically significant dose–response,
for the duration of common cold symptoms, with up to 6–8 g/day of
vitamin C. Thus, the negative findings of some therapeutic common cold
studies might be explained by the low doses of 3–4 g/day of vitamin C.
Three controlled trials found that vitamin C prevented pneumonia. Two
controlled trials found a treatment benefit of vitamin C for pneumonia
patients. One controlled trial reported treatment benefits for tetanus
patients. The effects of vitamin C against infections should be
investigated further."

And from the Conclusions (scroll way down):

"From a large series of animal studies we may conclude that vitamin C
plays a role in preventing, shortening, and alleviating diverse
infections. It seems evident that vitamin C has similar effects in
humans. Controlled studies have shown that vitamin C shortens and
alleviates the common cold and prevents colds under specific conditions
and in restricted population subgroups. Five controlled trials found
significant effects of vitamin C against pneumonia. There is some
evidence that vitamin C may also have effects on other infections, but
there is a paucity of such data. The practical importance and optimally
efficacious doses of vitamin C for preventing and treating infections
are unknown. Vitamin C is safe and costs only pennies per gram, and
therefore even modest effects may be worth exploiting."

Fyi: these studies - even the ones showing great promise - were all
based on oral ingestion, and all use comparatively low doses. Studies
that showed no or low activity used extremely low doses (half a gram and
less).

High dose IV Vitamin C works at an entirely different level, and that is
what I'd insist on if I or a loved one was in a bad way.

Some peoples system,s are just weak I guess time will tell.

Sit stay

originally posted by: mikell
Some peoples system,s are just weak I guess time will tell.

I was just watching some 'Doctor Smith' talking about how pretty much all of the people getting really sick are either pre-diabetic or full on diabetic, and more importantly, all of the younger people who were getting really ill were obese (BMI greater than 30)...

Maybe this will be a motivator to people to actually start thinking about their health, and even doing something about it.

originally posted by: DevolutionEvolvd
reply to post by SmokeandShadow

 

....but where in nature are you going to find that much Vitamin C at once?

Ummm.... everywhere?

All animals capable of manufacturing Vitamin C make it in those amounts, or more, even when healthy. When they get sick, they make more - sometimes a lot more.

So here is the absurdity... the recommended daily dose of vitamin C for humans is just one mg/kg/day, while goats, for just one example, produce the vitamin at a striking rate of 200 mg/kg each day.

Since adult goats typically weigh anywhere from 27-160kg, that means they manufacture anywhere from 5,400mg for the small ones, all the way up to 32,000mg per day for the large ones.

This suggests that a woman weighing 120lbs (54kg) would need somewhere around 10,800mg per day, and a man weighing 200lbs (91kg) would need somewhere around 18,200mg per day.

Maths is fun.

Regular Vitamin C is not well absorbed but Liposomal C is better than intravenous Vitamin C.

The Remarkable Health Benefits of Liposomal Vitamin C

originally posted by: troubleshooter
Regular Vitamin C is not well absorbed but Liposomal C is better than intravenous Vitamin C.

The Remarkable Health Benefits of Liposomal Vitamin C

This is mostly just marketing hype BS, designed to sell the (relatively much more) expensive liposomal form.

If you take regular ascorbic acid properly, it absorbs just fine... the key is to divide the daily dose into small doses at intervals - and the interval depends on your situation. If you are sick, you take it more often - at least once every couple of hours. The sicker you are - or, the faster you want to get better, the more/smaller doses you take, but when sick - especially if you're really sick - is to take it to bowel tolerance, which is pretty easy to determine by taking small doses of 500-2,000mg every 10 or 15 minutes (start off with 500mg, work your way up until you start feeling the rumbling in your gut, then back off a little)...

Been learning as much as possible on this ...virus...
THIS INFO is IMPORTANT !!!!
#Coronavirus #COVID19 #SARSCoV2
Coronavirus Epidemic Update 34: US Cases Surge, Chloroquine & Zinc Treatment Combo, Italy Lockdown
201,091 views
•Mar 10, 2020
www.youtube.com...
=======
ZINC !
Chloroquine (open door .)
Update 32 at 15:00 mark...

March 6th, 2020...
www.youtube.com...
====
the mechanics and matrix and structure of this virus is revealed..., and explain as simple as possible...
ZN.h...needs to enter RdRP... It can only be achieved in liquid form...
Early research and data of March 10 is slowly revealing what Chloroquine and zinc can do...
There are side effects...
So how can we get zinc in liquid form to breakthrough the virus barriers ?
and help our defenses ?

=======
There are more updates ,before this one that are super key in building these pc's of puzzle..., but this one needs the attention it deserves...
========

This is a ALL Hands on deck...
I am trying to help answer that question(s) in how to get ZINC to breakthrough the virus barriers ?
I prayed hard on this, and vision was water...but how ?
www.tapatalk.com...
putting pc's together as fast as possible, and I believe this will help on all levels...
Praying to God #1...

originally posted by: Vetfather
This is a ALL Hands on deck...
I am trying to help answer that question(s) in how to get ZINC to breakthrough the virus barriers ?
I prayed hard on this, and vision was water...but how ?
www.tapatalk.com...
putting pc's together as fast as possible, and I believe this will help on all levels...
Praying to God #1...

The easiest way to get zinc into cells is with zinc orotate. Zinc orotate passes through the cell membrane more than other forms of zinc, delivering more zinc into the cell. Dr. Hans Nieper found that zinc orotate, when compared to zinc carbonates, chlorides and sulfates, provided increased bioavailability in the cells of the body because it is more neutrally charged. For the first three days of the treatment, for people who weigh 165 pounds or less, the zinc dose should be 100 mg/day, for people who weigh more than 165 pounds, the dose should be 150 mg/day. Afterwards, until the symptoms end, the zinc dose should be 50 mg/day. The upper limit for long term use is 40 mg/day, and the typical diet has 12 mg/day. If you want to take zinc long term to prevent flu, around 10 mg/day will help and should be safe.

The more complicated way to get zinc into cells is with a zinc ionophore. Two over the counter ionophores are epigallocatechin-gallate (EGCG) and quercetin. Of the two zinc ionophores, EGCG is the more powerful one. A trial in Arizona by Sherry Chow found that a dose of 400 mg twice a day was safer than the placebo.

Quercetin is a weaker zinc ionophore. The recommended dose of quercetin is up to 2,300 mg/day, so 1,000 mg twice a day for a couple of weeks should be safe. Possible side effects of using quercetin long term include headaches, nausea and tingling sensations.

a reply to: tanstaafl
I've been taking about 10g of ascorbic acid every day by just dissolving it into a 1ltr bottle of water, add some lemon squeeze for flavour -- and just sip it throughout the day.

originally posted by: Navieko
a reply to: tanstaafl
I've been taking about 10g of ascorbic acid every day by just dissolving it into a 1ltr bottle of water, add some lemon squeeze for flavour -- and just sip it throughout the day.

That is the perfect way! 10g is a very good maintenance dose, and is even approaching therapeutic levels...

Lemon water has its own benefits to, and cuts down on the extremely sour taste from the ascorbic acid too.

But please - don't forget about the others. Vitamin A is extremely important, as is D3 (unless you get a lot of noon day sun in the more southerly parts of the world, you need it - 5,000-10,000IU daily, and if symptoms appear, I take 20,000IU 3 times per day (morning noon and night) for 3 days, then back down to 20,000IU once per day for a week or two, then back to maintenance dose). Then you have Zinc, Magnesium, Selenium and other co factors. It is not hard to get most of this from food, but C and D3 are not, you absolutely need to supplement with these.

Here is a most excellent and comprehensive (it is very long - 1hr 24min - but covers a huge amount of information and is well, well worth watching more than once if you are interested in natural health) video from one of my new heros and candidate for Senate (running against Elizabeth Warren), Dr. Shiva:

Note: whenever I talk about the therapeutic levels - I haven't had to engage them in a looooong time, since I started doing this - and healthy diet - meaning, healthy Keto (there is such a thing as unhealthy keto)/low carb, but right now I'm pretty much strictly carnivore) in my daily life.

I wish I had time to author a comprehensive thread on this subject, but I'm dealing with some time consuming personal crap right now (made incomprehensibly more difficult and time consuming by this stupid shutdown).

a reply to: Konah

There's a genetic component as well. Some people eat whatever, smoke, drink barely exercise and still don't get colds or flu. Hell, some people don't "stink" when they sweat.

You absolutely nailed it when it comes to basically unhealthy humans who megadose vitamin C/zinc every time they get a cold or flu because they are clearly not doing the right things to prop up their relatively fragile base. If you are the kind of person who does this once or twice a year, you are sickly and -- absent another condition or explanatory diagnoses -- you should examine your diet, especially your liquid diet and exercise routine.

Stress can be a killer as well, but again, it depends on your genes and the way you internalize and manage stress (which is also largely inherited).

I'd add "avoid youtube doctors operating outside their scope of practice, such as chiropractors who moonlight as virologists," but I'm a !@#$ like that I guess.

originally posted by: VneZonyDostupa


Pot, this is kettle.

Also:

Case-control study shows no links between aspartame and common neoplasms

Safety and toxicology evaluation shows no connection between aspartame and neoplasms

Italian study shows no link between aspartame and common neoplasms

aspartame is NOT a sweetener so why would I ever use it.
aspartame is bitter and leaves an after taste that is very sickening.

zinc toxicity. ... Doses greater than 225 mg are emetic, which means that vomiting is likely and can occur quickly. In one case, severe nausea and vomiting

7 Signs and Symptoms of Zinc Overdose
link

originally posted by: buddha
zinc toxicity. ... Doses greater than 225 mg are emetic, which means that vomiting is likely and can occur quickly. In one case, severe nausea and vomiting

7 Signs and Symptoms of Zinc Overdose
link

Good things most supplements only have 5 to at most 20 mg of (elemental) zinc.

A Review of Helpful Antiviral Strategies from dr.mercola

Link


Report from a senior physician, right from China, to my contact in China, Dr. Richard Chang, who is a board-certified himself and a Chinese-American

Vitamin C in the Prevention & Treatment of Covid-19