Torturing Children in Iraq!

Unfortunately, because America is the most powerful nation in the world, it's soldiers and civlilians tend to take frequent power trips. I mean, the majority of the troops in Iraq are college age kids with big egos and big guts full of alcohol.

We're Americans...we can do whatever the hell we want.

This quote came from Echo on a different thread. It's a perfect example of how many American's look at foreign situations. "Of course we can torture kids. They're Iraqi, and I'm American. What are they going to do?"

Nice sarcasm Echo.

But a country and a president that is obviously Christian in the last two years has slack our on internal problem with child abuse in this country.

The last report on children deaths and abuse by the government are outdated the report came on 04/2004 Child Abuse and Neglect Fatalities: Statistics and Interventions and this report only has the statistics for the year 2002 so who is to say that the same care about child abuse in this country is going to make a difference of child abuse in another country like Iraq.

This is a very serious problem it tells you that the same way this few of our own people is treating this children in Iraq, who is to say that they will come back to this country and will continue the mistreatment of children here in our own soil.

Right now 50 to 60 percent of children of deaths resulting from abuse or neglect are not recorded in this country alone.

Every country has his dirty one or two and we are not different but what it bothers me with this report is that it indifference for part of officials in our government about child abuse here in US and anywhere else.

This just one of the things that this administration has forgotten about in his pursue and his fanatics in his war on terror. It has forgotten about our on problems here in US soil.

This whole situation is beyond disgusting. Our military and political leaders, however far up this goes, even to the pResident, should be rounded up and thrown into Abu Ghraib for the rest of their unnatural lives. And guarded by IRAQIS.

This administration has brought more shame and dishonor upon our country than all of our presidents combined throughout the 20th-century. You Bush sycophants PROUD of that?

Here's an article on the abuse of children.

Torturing Children
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Tuesday 20 July 2004

The biggest story of the Iraq war is not about missing weapons of mass destruction, or about deep-cover CIA officers getting their covers blown by vengeful White House agents, or even about 896 dead American soldiers. These have been covered to one degree or another, and then summarily dismissed, by the American mainstream news media. The biggest story of the Iraq war has not enjoyed any coverage in America, though it has been exploding across the international news media for several weeks now.

The biggest story of the Iraq war is about the torture of Iraqi children.
www.truthout.org...

Where is the American news media? Where are the pictures? Who is responsible for this abomination? Torturing children in the name of freedom? Is this what we have become?

What do you expect for this administration that disregards the child abuse in this country? Do you expect for them to care about any abuse of children�s in other country? Some people believe that a war brings casualties and they seem to be ok with that fact and I believe it to a certain point.

My question to these people is. You think is ok in a war for freedom to abuse innocent children by our own troops?

Does our government care? Certainly not when it comes to our own abuse in our back doors in this nation.

The rate of child abuse and neglect fatalities reported by NCANDS has increased slightly over the last several years from 1.84 per 100,000 children in 2000 to 1.96 in 2001 and 1.98 in 2002.

What they're doing to the children in Iraqi detention is simply satanic. But that's what happens when leaders who drink from the demonic cup are allowed to operate carte blanche.

It's past time for ACCOUNTABILITY!

I believe the members of BushCo. are closet homos and they get off on these acts of sadism. No offense to those reading this that are gay - I'm talkin about people who act like one thing, but are too cowardly to own up to what they really are: PERVERTS.

I have to agree with you EastCoastKid but right now the news media is busy with the Berger missing papers, so the abuse will go to death ears as many other things that goes wrong with this goverment, sorry but the childrens.

I'm really ashamed of some of my fellow Americans. Get real. There is no perfect nation anywhere. We can't be perfect as much as we all wish we could be. I don't condone such acts either but they're bound to happen in war. It only weekens us to have people like you in America talking smack all the time. I'm talking about you people always putting down Bush and anything negative that comes out of this war. Bad things are bound to happen. We haven't beheaded anyone that I know of or ran our own kind threw meat grinders as a military act against defiance. Nothing we've done that I heard of, although everything being uncalled for, compares to what other nations have done or are doing now to prisoners and INNOCENT people. Yes, what some of ours guys have done IS wrong but pails in comparison. Quit stiring the pot, please. United we stand, devided we fall. Dont' you think our haters know that? I'm saying this because I obviously DO believe we have plenty of reasons for being there, PLENTY. Sure we could be elsewhere too and maybe we will be. I also wish we didn't have to fight ANYWHERE. But I remember 9/11 and no matter what anyone says, oil is not a good enough reason for what happened that day. They brought the fight to us and I believe would bring it even if we had never stepped foot over there. It seems some of you wouldn't be satisfied unless another Pearl Harbor happened.

livenlearn,

Let me remind you, that the invasion in Iraq was not a war against the Iraqi people or their innocent children, but and act from this president to take the evil doer call Sad am and to bring freedom and peace to that country not torturing of people or children, it seems that people is starting to forget that we are not at war with the Iraqi people but the government.

The government is out and now who is this government fighting now?

You are not sick of people like me that tell the true but I will tell you what you are sick of, the administration and the lies, the killing and the waste of humanity since we started the liberation of Iraq, the scandals and abuse to the Iraqi people.

Remember again we are liberators not punishers.

Originally posted by livenlearn
I'm really ashamed of some of my fellow Americans. Get real. There is no perfect nation anywhere. We can't be perfect as much as we all wish we could be. I don't condone such acts either but they're bound to happen in war.

Tell us just what exactly you know about war. During the Persian Gulf War things were so different it's unreal - within the Army. Being that we had REAL leaders at the time, nothing remotely like the prison abuses would have stood. We were told specifically to disobey ANY unlawful orders. The people in charge now are pure evil. Keep defending the indefensible.

It only weekens us to have people like you in America talking smack all the time.

So that's how little you think of actual combat vets, huh? No big surprise.

"Quit stirring the pot?" I don't suppose you've ever heard of or read the first ammendment? Probably not. Those who embrace fascism knowingly or not, cannot handle debate or opposing opinions. So they just try and shut them up through violence. It's pathetic. You'll have to kill me, partner, to get me to STOP STIRRING THE POT.

Here's something for you to read, btw, if you can handle it:

When Veterans Speak...
By Sara Daniel
Le Nouvel Observateur H�bdomadaire

Week of 15 July 2004

They remain haunted by what they've seen and done.
They are Roger, Allen, Ed, and Ivan. They were officers, a simple soldier, a chaplain. Our special envoy in Iraq, Sara Daniel, met them several months ago in Falluja, Ramadi, Baghdad, and Sadr City. She went to see them again in the United States, where, in spite of their return to civilian life, they remain haunted by their terrors and nightmares and also, sometimes by the suffering they inflicted on Iraqis.
Captain Roger Elliott, 35 years old, 490th Battalion, Sadr City
"This man who dragged his child's body around..."

In the Sadr City City Hall, that November morning, the atmosphere was tense. Some days before, the American soldiers guarding the City Hall had shot down the Iraqi mayor they had just chosen... because he refused a body search at the entrance of the City Hall, demanding that he be shown the respect due his office. Captain Roger Elliott, who was in charge of getting the new municipal council off the ground, had not been there when the Mayor, Mohanned, died. He thinks that he could have prevented the drama. At the time, he didn't evade any of our questions. This officer, Mayor of Hudson Oaks, Texas in civilian life, had even stated that he appreciated his Sadr alter ego: "Mohanned stood up to us; that was a good thing, a little like the French when they said no in the Security Council. We didn't free the Iraqis so they could become our servants."
www.truthout.org...

People who say things like 'bad things happen in war' don't know a damn thing about war. They are the ones who should STFU & go volunteer to fight. But they won't. They're mostly cowardly arm-chair "warriors." The ones who actually take that advice, are usually singin quite a different tune when after they have come face to face with it.

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

EastCoastKid,

Don't let people like that get to you, we just have to educated them on the realities of what is going on in the world, they need to get away from their air conditioned houses and offices and come smell reality.

[edit on 21-7-2004 by marg6043]

Question: Because we are not AS horrible means it's ok for us do those things? What kind of Sick argument is that? Were a kinder gentler bunch of torturers and murder less innocently imprisoned people?

Advertiser in suit and tie, "America is only 57% as brutal as a dictator, so if you want to improve your sadistic torture rates, call us at 1-800-BUSH-WAR and we'll invade your country." In zippy legal speak, "US is not responsible for tens of thousands of civilian causualties, property destruction, and subsequent murderous lawlessness."

Originally posted by marg6043
EastCoastKid,

Don't let people like that get to you, we just have to educated them on the realities of what is going on in the world, they need to get away from their air conditioned houses and offices and come smell reality.

[edit on 21-7-2004 by marg6043]

You're right, Marg. Absolutely right.

And Slank, you took the words right outta my mouth.



[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

koji_K

The statement was a general, I also stated that conduct of this nature was not practice or condoned. If there was misconduct it needs to be handled accordingly. I simply stated you cant condemn the military or there mission.

ECK

This is a problem, you immediately throw the President into the equation, as if he was the one who the allegations were against. The next time there is a rape in New York, (now,now,now.............) call for you govenor, senators, and congressmen to all be arrested and thrown in jail. Then start throwing all the citizens in jail for failing to protect the victims.

WOW UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ECK
If I may ask ,did you serve in the military ??


[edit on 22-7-2004 by sniper068]

[edit on 22-7-2004 by sniper068]

marg6043

Totally disagree with you, the bias media would drop the berger case in a heartbeat. They spent weeks on end covering the so called torture at the prison. Maybe a total of 15 minutes on the 4 Americans burned and hung on the bridge, 3 beheadings of innocent civilians with there hands bound, and all of the demonic suicide bombings killing innocent iraqi men women and children.

Dont fool yourself they would drop that story in second, unless of course it was President Bush security adviser.

It doesnt matter who tortures kids; the US Military, Saddam Regime, Insurgents, Terrorists, Serial Killers. My comment was designed to show you that while this is how I feel about such disgraceful actions, you can guarantee that this is also how some Iraqi father would also be feeling.

If it happened to your kids you would be out for blood. Think about how appealing it would be for an Iraqi father who learned that his children were tortured to join the insurgency and seek revenge. Now ask yourself if he would be totally justified in doing so.

Originally posted by cargo

If it happened to your kids you would be out for blood. Think about how appealing it would be for an Iraqi father who learned that his children were tortured to join the insurgency and seek revenge. Now ask yourself if he would be totally justified in doing so.

Good point, but more wood to the fire if the tourtures are Americans.

Originally posted by cargo
It doesnt matter who tortures kids; the US Military, Saddam Regime, Insurgents, Terrorists, Serial Killers. My comment was designed to show you that while this is how I feel about such disgraceful actions, you can guarantee that this is also how some Iraqi father would also be feeling.

If it happened to your kids you would be out for blood. Think about how appealing it would be for an Iraqi father who learned that his children were tortured to join the insurgency and seek revenge. Now ask yourself if he would be totally justified in doing so.

Well the father of that boy wasn't in there for a traffic violation he probably had blood on his hands so some troops felt compelled to retaliate or take revenge it happens in time of war. And im not saying it was right but some people are calling a 16 year old boy child bit of a stretch if you ask me. Also just cuz some troops do something wrong why do people day it was the presidents fault he is not there in the field preaching torture kids if someone decides to do something wrong you cant stop them. Like someone said next time there is a rape in your city call for your governor and senator to be throw in jai cuz that is how you guys are making this look.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Well the father of that boy wasn't in there for a traffic violation he probably had blood on his hands so some troops felt compelled to retaliate or take revenge it happens in time of war. And im not saying it was right but some people are calling a 16 year old boy child bit of a stretch if you ask me. Also just cuz some troops do something wrong why do people day it was the presidents fault he is not there in the field preaching torture kids if someone decides to do something wrong you cant stop them. Like someone said next time there is a rape in your city call for your governor and senator to be throw in jai cuz that is how you guys are making this look.

Excellent point Westpoint23, he was an Iraqi male adult, of all the possible crimes he could have committed, it was almost probably/definitley/maybe/guessing/assuming/not sure but a bit on the biased side, one which involved bloodied hands. And what better way to teach him a lesson, than to take it out on an innocent family member. No hold a second, he was 16, that means he is an Iraqi male adult, so at sometime he's probably/definitley/maybe/guessing/assuming/not sure but a bit on the biased side, going to have bloodied hands.

I believe it's your Presidents fault because, unfortunately, he's the twating Commander in Cheif....!!

Koka,
you are right the president should be blame for it.

I forgot they are just Iraqis the scum the barbarians the third country not better than us Americans, not good terrorist!!!!!!!!!

Wait!!!!!!!!!!!I forgot too, we went to liberated them, to free them from the sadistic rule of Sadam, the torturer the killer.

Whoa I am getting so confused I don't not anymore who is who anymore.
And from who we should liberate them anymore I am loosing my mind.Right?

What hypocrisy
I forgot to add before US invation in Iraq, it was not terrorist in that country, and the so call prisioners were questioned for MWD.



[edit on 22-7-2004 by marg6043]

[edit on 22-7-2004 by marg6043]

I hold Bush responsible for the widespread prisoner abuse in Iraq for a number of reasons.

First, as someone has already mentioned in this thread, he is the Commander-in-Chief. The buck should stop with him, as the famous sign on Trumans desk said. Even if he had nothing to do whatsoever with these abuses, he should still be willing to fall on his sword and take some responsibity... admitting the fact that he failed in this aspect of his role as CiC.

Second, this administration has, from the very start, attempted to sidestep the Geneva Conventions. Trying to draw a line between who is and who is not an 'enemy combatant' is a dangerous and foolish thing to do. It sends the message that if someone is not an 'enemy combatant' they do not fall under the protections of the Conventions. Ultimately, it dehumanizes the enemy. And history has shown us that this often leads to a feeling by the troops down the line that abuses are thus OK.

Third, this administration has attempted to justify torture, plain and simple. This vile document shames our country: www.washingtonpost.com...

And of course, Bush tells us that we should "be comforted" by our laws, despite his attempt to subvert them to justify torture. His choice of words is truly sickening, almost sadistic, considering the "comfort" our laws have provided to various detainees.

Fourth, it was his administration which sent our troops into Iraq to perform policing duties for which the majority of them are untrained. Proper training would have reduced the number of abuses, but our troops are not organized around a Carabinieri model and should never have been assigned the role they were.

-koji K.