Dear Humans, We Are Alone in this world! No ETs/superbeings :-( So Sad...

How would you explain to an alien the sensation of seeing a red apple?

Can you imagine how an alien being would "think"? or "perceive"?

Can you tell me about the basic cognitive faculties that an alien "should" have so it can physically exist and endure the cosmos?

Emotion?
Empathy?
Urges?
Self-preservation?
abstract thought?
logical thought?
symbolic manipulation?
spatial perception?

Tell me: What are the "cognitive" requirements for the existence of an "intelligent being"?

People... just show me that you know what you are talking about when you throw these concepts around in this thread.

These questions are necessary for you to be able to judge whether what you think is plausible or not.

reply to post by laymanskeptic


Hi.
Well your half right any way.
look in the mirror, can you see a reflection of your self?
Now can you see a reflection of you in your eyes, of you looking into the mirror.
Can you look into the eyes of the reflection of your eyes? Well believe it or not, there is, and so on and so on.
So your not completely alone. There is a world you can not see with the human eye
And guess what, It begins with the first reflection of you

reply to post by laymanskeptic


I meant technology wise. I know I edited other post probably after you began response so I ask again, why would they need to save everyone? How do we know they even want to? Maybe they are just observing or (yes I know lol) maybe they have prime directive type policy Like I said, there are groups of people in remote places today, using your original statements we don't exist because we have not rushed in to save them in times of need?

In your opinion there is no refutable evidence that aliens are or have visited earth, but that's just your opinion. So if there's other intelligent life out there, as you say you are 95% certain there are, then it's totally in the realm of possibility. It all comes down to what you yourself are willing to accept as evidence.

Again, just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't make you right.

reply to post by laymanskeptic


Sorry hehe, I wanna change response to include technologically and intellectiually.

the distance between solar systems according to our latest understanding is too great for organic life to travel unless, having spent the last 100,000+ years of their existance mastering different sciences like lightspeed, suspended animation, it is highly unlikely we have or ever will be visited by aliens.

however, that being said, the existance of other beings in space is 100%, we exist therefore they exist.
some are at the same point, some are just evolving, and some are far advanced and have been traveling the universe. it's all a matter of probability. when/where they were developed, where they explored first, what is there purpose for exploration (mining, conquering/studying foreign species)

on a positive note it's entirely possible there are undocumentable forces at work in our every day lives (dreams) and the possibility of things such as portals or dimensions where beings that have existed for ages could achieve travel in forms we can't yet comprehend and that we are on the same path by working at ourselves. which is where stories of the past come into play. they are part of our consciousness. a part of us. they came from us in an infinite realm of nothing and everything. so they must mean something.

Originally posted by infiniteobserver
reply to post by laymanskeptic

 

I meant technology wise. I know I edited other post probably after you began response so I ask again, why would they need to save everyone? How do we know they even want to? Maybe they are just observing or (yes I know lol) maybe they have prime directive type policy Like I said, there are groups of people in remote places today, using your original statements we don't exist because we have not rushed in to save them in times of need?

Yes we have. Japan is a remote location from the west and is in dire need of help. And yet all (EDIT: a lot of) countries are rushing in to help.

Proof by analogy fail.

If they are spiritually advanced than us, they need to save everyone. If not, they are useless.

Does not imply that they aren't here though. But they aren't here simply because there is no evidence they are here.

In your opinion there is no refutable evidence that aliens are or have visited earth, but that's just your opinion. So if there's other intelligent life out there, as you say you are 95% certain there are, then it's totally in the realm of possibility. It all comes down to what you yourself are willing to accept as evidence.

Do you define "evidence" loosely?

Again, just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't make you right.

This last sentence you keep stating again and again is a mis-reading of the intention of the OP. The OP is not designed to be argumentatively precise. It is more emotionally charged than logically charged. I guess it's my fault for causing this confusion. I am not standing by the arguments there as having perfect logical form. I stand by it being an emotional expression.

But now this discussion inevitably is going into the land of intellectual precision. So then let us be.

What is evidence to you?

Not to be rude but your post doesn't mean anything as far as whether or not ETs are here. Just because they don't intervene in OUR affairs does not mean they aren't around.

Do you blow out the flame for your child? How many times will you blow it out until you realize your child is only going to truly know the dangers of that flame when they experience it with their finger? ...at which point they have actually learned something, unlike being blind to the danger because you are always blowing out the flame.

Yes thousands of people have died in Japan, but it wasn't cataclysmic for the whole planet. I don't want to have to experience a planetary cataclysm before ETs show themselves, but that is probably going to be the case.

Who knows, ETs may have intervened in the past for humanity and found out it only caused more problems such as stunting our growth and learning process. Experience is the only teacher.

Originally posted by spacemanjupiter
Not to be rude but your post doesn't mean anything as far as whether or not ETs are here. Just because they don't intervene in OUR affairs does not mean they aren't around.

Do you blow out the flame for your child? How many times will you blow it out until you realize your child is only going to truly know the dangers of that flame when they experience it with their finger? ...at which point they have actually learned something, unlike being blind to the danger because you are always blowing out the flame.

I quote myself to clarify the op.

Originally posted by laymanskeptic
The OP is not designed to be argumentatively precise. It is more emotionally charged than logically charged. I guess it's my fault for causing this confusion. I am not standing by the arguments there as having perfect logical form. I stand by it being an emotional expression.

I state another reason why aliens aren't here, and it's got to do with evidence.

Other than that, the OP merely expresses the despair, and resulting hope, i experienced after I woke up from a dream about japan and aliens and robots helping out.

I would just like to throw my 2cents in. I think we're not seeing any help from ETs because they've already warned us enough times, like disabling those test missiles, basically telling us to stop building machines of death. And we continue to do so, so they aren't helping anymore. I know we are not alone. It's just a matter of you witnessing your own UFO/ET Encounter.

There is nothing to prove your statement, stop stirring the pot.

Originally posted by whatifitweretrue
There is nothing to prove your statement, stop stirring the pot.

This is in response to what statement?

reply to post by laymanskeptic


Do you believe in god?

Millions of different species living in a million different climates right here on earth.There are billions upon billions of planets out there.

Maybe aliens can't control mother nature.Maybe they are too scared to show themselves.Maybe they know the panic it would cause.Maybe there are good and bad aliens.Maybe there is a secret alien war that we don't know about.Who knows?....you don't.

reply to post by laymanskeptic


I think the universe could be what you make it. In other words, I was thinking the exact same thing you were when I logged onto ATS and this thread appeared. That tells me that if I continue to be defeatist and not have something to believe in, then the world I experience will follow this trend. If I believe in helpful ETs, I might discover a world where they exist. The same if I believe in God, or if I believe in liberal atheism doctrine.

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by laymanskeptic

 

I think the universe could be what you make it. In other words, I was thinking the exact same thing you were when I logged onto ATS and this thread appeared. That tells me that if I continue to be defeatist and not have something to believe in, then the world I experience will follow this trend. If I believe in helpful ETs, I might discover a world where they exist. The same if I believe in God, or if I believe in liberal atheism doctrine.

edit on 14-3-2011 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

Perhaps once you enter that reality, I'm nowhere to be found.

One more thing: the OP, as far as I am concerned, is positive not negative. It made me believe in humanity here and now, rather than something I don't have concrete proof of but continue to believe in and hope for. I am glad because humanity is here and now.

reply to post by laymanskeptic


I can tell you that there is more to this world than what we see everyday. We are not here to prove anything in person to anyone. No one needs a PHD to understand the vastness of the universe and the amount of life forms that could very well exist. I am not an expert on anything but I can always voice my opinion.

Speaking about magic and spirituality, you have indicated in your o.p that there is no magic. We didn't mention that there is magic. Magic is an illusion. Spirituality is a set of certain qualities that one nurtures himself to become a better living being. When we talk abut those qualities we are talking about world peace, consciousness, non-materialism, mutual respect, freedom so and so. The world is lacking these. And we all know the current situation of this world. With the kind of advanced technology the aliens may possess, it could bring destruction as well as peaceful governance. If aliens are here, there could be several reasons:
1) They are our creators, so I see no reason for them to explain themselves to us. We could just be their experiment. Call them God/Aliens or anything by name.
2) They are like everyone else probably advanced and has technology to travel anywhere. They could be hundreds to millions of years more evolved-intergalactic even inter dimensional.

Now, let us say, they are our creators. Would a creator need to protect his creation? Thats their choice. But they have not wiped us out either. Now to choice two. They are far more advanced but that doesn't mean that they know everything. They are mortal. Their ships crash. They could bleed too.

But we have to realize that science just keeps changing. May be our science just depends on what we could see and feel. There could be more to it. What if 'our' science is based on our limited understanding and is a crooked version of the 'real' science that exists beyond our perception? Are we that intelligent to successfully become a galactic civilization? We are yet to figure out things about our own moon.
What if we are a dumbed down, not-so-intelligent and materialistic animals? I say the true science behind space travel and how things work is beyond our understanding. Its that simple. But our ignorance and our limited abilities
have shown us the world the way it is now.

The Vedas mentions beings able to control crafts with their mind. And scientists have just figured out mind-controlled computer games. It is not for us to say that aliens don't exist. We could very well be the remnants of a much brighter and advanced society that once lived here or who came here.

Why do we have messengers throughout our history? Why do we need a Jesus? Why Ram and the other avatars? Are they trying to tell us something? Is it their style of intervention?

Originally posted by GodIsPissed
reply to post by laymanskeptic

 

Do you believe in god?

Millions of different species living in a million different climates right here on earth.There are billions upon billions of planets out there.

Maybe aliens can't control mother nature.Maybe they are too scared to show themselves.Maybe they know the panic it would cause.Maybe there are good and bad aliens.Maybe there is a secret alien war that we don't know about.Who knows?....you don't.

I imagine that sometimes. Makes me think how useless they are if they actually exist.

Alien war... they're no better than us then...

reply to post by laymanskeptic


please share all your knowledge of the unknowable with us!

reply to post by radkrish


Those are good points, and I have entertained these thoughts and researched them, it makes for me a rich inner life.

I shall reply to your long post in detail, but a bit later as I have to work on something.

I'll be back in this thread.

Being an agnostic skeptic, I cannot make assertions such as, "There is no god," "there are no extraterrestrial, extra/inter-dimensional, or inter-temporal entities on our planet," "there is no such thing as magic," etc. because I cannot prove those assertions. And all evidence suggests that it is logically fallacious to prove a negative, so I can never assert those things technically. So I have to say, "It is possible that these things exist." All I can say about them in the negative is, "I have seen no irrefutable proof that they exist."

That said, there is one thing OP said in particular that I can partially agree with/assert, and I suspect it is that which he or she is ultimately driving at.

We are irrelevant, except to ourselves.

Now, I can't assert that, because it's possible that something exists beyond our ability to perceive directly or prove that does care a great deal for us. So I would instead rephrase that to say, "We may be entirely irrelevant, except to ourselves and one another."

It is entirely possible that, in the absence of proof to the contrary, we indeed are irrelevant except to our own species. It is possible that there is no greater plan, greater purpose, or any purpose or meaning at all for that matter pertaining to our existence. It is possible that the universe - or multiverse, or braneworld, or multi-dimensional bulk, or whatever the ultimate nature of reality turns out to be (we don't know that at present, and may never know) - really is simply an eternal yet naturally occurring sea of chaotic dimensional and energetic interplay of which our planet, life on her, and we, are all simply a lucky byproduct.

The human ego abhors this notion. And I don't mean ego in the popularized sense of being conceited, but rather the deep seated psychological sense of, "But I need to know I matter!" There's nothing wrong with feeling that way. We all feel that way on some level. But it is at least possible that we absolutely, simply, don't. At least not in the way that many of us want us to.

And I can certainly empathize with OP's feelings (while not sharing them to the letter due to my aforementioned strict skepticism and refrain from assertion without proof) that, upon seeing the indifferent, chaotic, willy nilly way in which the Earth can produce mass death and suffering for huge swaths of our species (and this can be extrapolated to included the whole of the universe when we consider dangers poses by meteors, comets, asteroids, cosmic rays, etc.) there may be no rhyme or reason for it all. We really may be no more important than ants or rocks; just another part of the continuum of probability, chaos, natural selection, and life. Perhaps like a program that runs in a strange sense, generating possibilities and scenarios. We may just be lucky enough to be the one running currently. Hell, I’m not even convinced we have free will, strictly speaking.

Or, there may be some greater purpose or meaning. There may be a reason. We may be special. We may be eternal and have souls. And there may be benevolent ETs visiting Earth right now in secret, unable to aid us directly during disaster because of some sort of “prime directive” with respect to comparatively primitive species. Maybe magic exists. Who knows? I certainly don’t.

But I can’t blame anyone for feeling very small and potentially utterly alone (except for other human beings) after seeing something like what has happened in Japan. Anymore than I can disagree with anyone seeking solace in faith. They both have their virtues, especially at times like this, in my opinion. And I do absolutely share the opinion that this is a time for compassion, cooperation, and good will.