OMG... The Kids Can't Spell!

reply to post by The Sword


You are right, possessing the ability to write eloquent prose does not make someone an elitist. Discounting those with inferior literary skills IS elitist.

Also, throughout this thread people have equated poor spelling with low intelligence. This has no merit. Ironically, many of these posters misspell simple words and use horrendous grammar. I am sorry that my post did not convey to you my intended meaning. And when it comes down to it, all that truly matters is the meaning behind the message.

You can critique their spelling, attack their grammar and insult their intelligence; but if you let these obfuscations keep you from understanding the meaning behind a person's message there is nobody to blame but yourself for not making the effort to understand your fellow man - in fact the majority of your fellow man.

Most people have very poor writing and public speaking skills. What I have learned from this thread is that most people who have above average language skills discount people who do not follow the same rules of a made up game we call language.

A rose by any other name....

reply to post by JohnnyTHSeed


Schools must work harder to ensure that students are taught the basics of spelling and grammar!

How else are these students going to be able to compete in the global job marketplace, let alone the job marketplace in Anytown, USA?

Originally posted by cushycrux
Remember, remember...

www.imdb.com...

And here is the "why":

edit on 13-3-2011 by cushycrux because: (no reason given)

Haha, that movie is really becoming something prophetic !!

reply to post by JohnnyTHSeed


Surely you are joking about "gooder." In no dictionary will you find "gooder" (with the exception of do-gooder, which has nothing to do with what you are trying to say). What you are looking for is "better." I don't think people need to be spelling nazis though. I make spelling mistakes often, though I always try to clean up my writing before anyone reads it. I too somewhat blame spellcheck. I was a great speller when I was in school, but now I rely on the computer. Quite a terrible habit, I admit.

As far as "elitist" writing, I have to agree that it is silly. I am just finishing up a degree in Communications (Professional Writing). In my first year, I wrote what some may call "elitist" papers. I was promptly chewed out by my instructors and told to write like a normal person, allowing the reader to hear my voice through my writing. After changing my style, my grades shot up and I have to admit, my writing is so much better. I no longer (most times) sound like an arrogant d-bag.

I think in the olden days, we were over-educated, it sounds stupid, but its only those few students that really should be taught properly, and the others should just be left to the alchohol, sex, and cigarettes. Perhaps in the future society might become more refined, learning from the stupidity of consumerism and materiality that exists today, however, for some reason, all it takes is another temptation to turn us back to the way that we were.

reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross


You mean they asked you to literally dumb-down your paper to appeal to a wider audience?

No wonder your grades shot up. It proves that they have low standards.

reply to post by The Sword


Not being pretentious doesn't mean dumbed down. Anyone who has been writing for a long time can tell you this. You write to communicate, not to impress.

reply to post by The Sword


No, I explained that badly. They simply asked me to not write like a pretentious twit (I really did write that way). They wanted to see me in my papers, not an inaccessible jackass. I actually agree; in my editing work, I prefer reading papers in which I can "hear" the writer's voice. It makes it much more enjoyable to read. I say the same things I did before, but I don't use the thesaurus as much.

ETA: 54700 hit the nail on the head. That is precisely what my instructors wanted.

Originally posted by drew1749
Dear Kangarue,

....few things. Why have amounts of usage rules if you have an unlimited plan? Also you try writing out thoughts on that small keyboard and spelling everything out. Texting is meant to be fast. The point is to summarize.

I have usage rules to keep the phone from growing into her hands. I have unlimited plans because of school text alerts, weather text alerts, and breaking news alerts.

As far as typing on a small keyboard.... EVERY post and reply I make here is done on one of those tiny keyboards. My phone is the only access I have to the internet. It has a virtual keyboard to boot. I know how difficult it is. That is why almost every post I make gets edited.

Yikes calling every youth that uses shorthand mentally challenged? :|

Wow! That was never stated. I commented that some children may have difficulty spelling or may be slow at picking it up. I also stated that if it were one or two then that could be a reason. Since it was almost every single friend, it pretty much ruled out that excuse. I never said they were mentally challenged.

1, Kids lie. No english teacher is going to not care about spelling.

I could be offended but I will pass. I see the papers come home with the errors graded perfectly. You are entitled to that assumption though. Just because it sounds highly ludicrous it doesn't mean it isn't true.

and who's fault is all this the teachers that have 40+ students, the gov that cuts funding or the parents that work all the time or the single parent that works 2 jobs or all the above.
You spend less and less time with them your kids that is.Here is a thought, instead of sending them to some sport, ie soccer, football or tennis, have them stay home and do some real home work, not what the teacher sends home but have them read.
If they do not know the word have then look it up. and not on the web the old way a Dictionary.
Have the phone turned off put the laptop up and turn off the TV and home computer.

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe


I feel like you skipped around my good points and just picked at the bad ones.

The comment about teachers...I explained that. But obviously, when all else fails just ignore good arguments.

reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross


None of the words we use used to be in a dictionary. I don't need Merriam or Webster's arbitrary approval to decide what is and is not a "real" word. In an academic or business setting it is safer to use collegiate approved words. However, to say made up words are not legitimate is a practice of stuphoria. All words are made up. It is just a matter of getting them approved by the right people.

"Bling" is no more legitimate of a word than "gooder" but only one is in the dictionary. Unless you count Urban Dictionary, which I do.

www.merriam-webster.com...

reply to post by JohnnyTHSeed


Urban dictionary entries can be created by any Joe Blow. The fact of the matter is that "gooder" is not and has never been a word. You can say it all you want, and those who hear you will think you are not well-versed in the English language. I would strongly recommend against making up words in academic or work settings.

ETA: I agree with the inanity of "bling."

I think it's hilarious, actually!

What is the purpose of language?! It's to express information, thought and feelings to others...so, wtf does it matter if letters are off?! WTF DOES IT MATTER?! It doesn't, LOL! IT DOESTNN :p

TXTING is the first planetary language. The internet, and TXT, is our tower of Babylon, so to speak. It's one of the keys to peace for our species.

So get hip with it, and keep evolving with our culture. It's not as if the languages have EVER been static.

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by JohnnyTHSeed

 

The fact of the matter is that "gooder" is not and has never been a word.

I guess it depends on your definition of what a word is.

I like this one..

A word is the smallest free form (an item that may be uttered in isolation with semantic or pragmatic content) in a language, in contrast to a morpheme, which is the smallest unit of meaning.

Gooder certainly meets that criteria. In no definition of the word word will you see mention of the necessity of a dictionary entry. A word becomes a word when it expresses meaning. Gooder has a very clear meaning.

Edit: Why is any Joe Blow not allowed to make up words when Billy Shakespeare did the same?

Originally posted by JohnnyTHSeed

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by JohnnyTHSeed

 

The fact of the matter is that "gooder" is not and has never been a word.

I guess it depends on your definition of what a word is.

I like this one..

A word is the smallest free form (an item that may be uttered in isolation with semantic or pragmatic content) in a language, in contrast to a morpheme, which is the smallest unit of meaning.

Gooder certainly meets that criteria. In no definition of the word word will you see mention of the necessity of a dictionary entry. A word becomes a word when it expresses meaning. Gooder has a very clear meaning.

You've dug yourself a large hole here!

reply to post by drew1749


I apologize if it came off that way as that was not my intention. Several here can attest to the fact that I can fully admit when someone shows me a valid point that makes me view things a little differently. I will go over your post again later this morning and cover all the points you made.

Originally posted by drew1749
Dear Kangarue,

I agree. Spelling in kids these days sucks. But I have issues with just about everything else you said. So let's get started.

As promised, I will get to all your points in this post. I will skip the ones I already commented on above.

...few things. Why have amounts of usage rules if you have an unlimited plan? Also you try writing out thoughts on that small keyboard and spelling everything out. Texting is meant to be fast. The point is to summarize.

I am skipping this since I answered it above.

As explained in my last comment. Texting is shorthand. Don't you take shorthand notes?

About the only notes I ever make are grocery lists. I do not use shorthand on those because sometimes even *I* can forget what my own shorthand meant. Since my groceries usually don't consist of text speak (no text abbreviation for london broil) I suppose the point is moot. I use email a lot and do not use shorthand in those either.

Yikes calling every youth that uses shorthand mentally challenged? :|

Even though I would like to go into this misunderstanding again, I will restrain myself since I have covered it already.

I can't write cursive but I can read it just fine. Just like some people can talk our language but not read it.

You are fortunate then. I do know folks who can not write nor read it. Judging from what I know I made a general assumption. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule. Next time I will not assume since there is atleast one person I know (you) that it does not apply to. You know what happens when you assume...

Our language is dieing? I don't believe you.

Did you know that almost every country other than America teaches their children english at a very early age? I have a french friend who is 14 and he speaks both french and english very well.

It is not a requirement that you believe me. This was a personal opinion/observation. Language, spelling, and usage are no longer considered as important as they were for most people. That's just the way I, and many others see it.

As far as other countries teaching their children english? I will do you one better. America is pretty much the only country that does not have a mass majority of people who "can" speak a second language. Just watching the news shows that english (written and spoken) is known very well by a huge amount of the population outside of the USA. Whether the cause is arrogance or pride, we are behind the times on that. This fact only serves to strengthen my point about placing little importance on language/spelling skills.

Who needs definitions when we have context clues? Definitions are boring!

My daughter constantly complains that school is also boring. This does not mean she doesn't need to learn what is being taught.

Ex.

GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!

"Teacher I dun no wut liberty means!!!!"

Teacher: "What were the Colonists fighting England about?"

You can figure out what liberty means through this. This is how we learn words in general.

What if they don't know what Colonists are? Your example doesn't provide adequate context for that. You do have to know many definitions to be able to make use of context clues.

1, Kids lie. No english teacher is going to not care about spelling.

I already covered this one above as well... which you didn't bother to discuss either.

2, You do have a point. If the teacher doesn't care the kids won't.

Thanks for that atleast.

Here in Kentucky the school system is structured like this:

k-5 = Elementry

6-8 = Junior High

9-12 = High School

The first few years in Junior High the teachers are always super strict and forgiving. Now why is this?

That's the way the grades are split here too. Forgiving errors opens a whole can of worms IMO. You see, I have dealt with the school systems/teachers for a long time now. In preschool up to about the 5th grade my daughter had teachers who would let her retake tests if she failed, turn in homework late if she forgot it, redo worksheets where she rushed and scored badly etc. When she hit the 6th grade she was hit with a cruel reality.

She had developed an attitude that she could not study, take the test, then retake it if she failed. Unfair was uttered more than once when she was now stuck with the grade she earned. I tried to warn her that there would come a time that teachers would not allow her to slide by. She didn't believe that because it had always been allowed so far.

She is an A/B student. The last two years she has been left trying to bring up grades at the last minute because she was conditioned to expect forgiveness of bad marks at the last minute. They did her no favors as far as I am concerned. Nobody wants to see their child fail at anything (even a worsheet) but I find it cruel to let them operate below their potential only to spring disappointment and drastic change on them at a later date.

The reasoning is that it teaches kids how life works. When you enter Junior High you're a baby. Expecting teachers to care. They don't always do that. The good teachers will teach you that. So later on (8th gradeish) the teachers lighten up. You already know the rules and ect.

Already knowing all the rules would be spot on IF the children have already been taught the *correct* rules. I can respect them being able to "lighten up" as the child gets older. However, if some teachers "lighten up" from the start of the child's education, then they are not doing their job to properly educate IMO.

Did that make any sense? lol I think I got my point across.

It did if my answer makes since. It is possible that I misunderstood.

Maybe your daughter has started speaking it. But I surely haven't.

She has not started speaking it.

To be completely honest Ma'am most teenagers don't represent the world. Teenagers do stupid things. They act stupid like that for attention. They think it makes them cool...and all this coming from a teenager.

(Well legal adult teen. But still. Lol)

Ma'am? Why do you have to make me feel old? Teenagers and children alike do stupid things. I am not so old that I have forgotten my own hormonal stupidity. It is sometimes miraculous that any of us make it into adulthood.

"see vs sea" That's a bigger problem right there. LOL

This was the main point in my OP if you reread it. I was not nitpicking on all spelling or grammar mistakes. I took more issue with super easy words being used/spelled wrong. Be vs. Bee etc.

If kids don't know (I forget the grammatical name for words like that but it exists. I KNOW IT DOES) different spellings of words that sound the same. Well, that's a problem.

Again... That was a huge part of my OP. So I completely agree with you.

Sincerely,

Drew [The Kool Kat] Jefferson
Not really my name. But if it was...it would be awesome.

It would indeed be awesome. I couldn't agree more if you paid me too.

I think I covered everything in your post now as promised. I offer my apologies again if you felt I was trying to avoid/slight you in any way. It was not my intention.

reply to post by Jibbs


I like my hole, it's much more comfortable than the ivory tower I used to call home.
Really though, I have no idea what you are talking about. Could you clarify what you mean?

Originally posted by Kharron
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

 

I don't even wonder any more why literacy is taking a plunge. I just watched a laundry detergent commercial (think it was Gain) where they claim it will make your day 'gooder'

I don't even know what to say... it's almost like they're trying to make everyone 'more stupider'.

I know for one, I will not be picking up any Gain, ever, just because of that commercial.

Khar

My grandmother says "gooder." When i correct her, she references the commercial of which you speak in support of her...correctness.

And i too boycott goods and services based upon advertising.

Lastly: advertising dumbs us down, no questions asked. It projects the least amount of intellect in limited space, aimed at the masses..