End to Juvenile executions urged

There's nothing inherently barbaric about the death penalty. All death is not equal, nor is all death equally wrong. And in some circumstances a killing is justifiable.

In my opinion, the death penalty is overused. first and foremost, the types of crimes where it can be used should be condensed. Save it for the most appropriate cases.

And the death penalty should be available in every state for

A. Murderers who kill fellow inmates. In states where there is no death penalty, an inmate seving life in prison has a lifetime of free passes for murder.

B. Inmates who have committed a violent crime, escaped from prison, and have committed any violent felony while on the loose.

C. Those convicted of murder or voluntary manslaughter who have been paroled and commit a violent crime while out on parole.

D. Strike Three violent felons: Violent felons released from prison twice for violent crimes who commit a third violent crime.

[edit on 7/22/2004 by Eastern_Diamondback]

Durden,
wow. all i can say about you. you remind me of the anti-abortion fanatics that refuse to hear any other views. It's your way or no way.
You just can't seem to grasp that ALOT of people agree with views as simple as mine. Yes, if you commit murder or rape you should be removed from the this world. PERIOD.
you basically call people stupid and pointless that don't share your views. how sad.
you try and quote a study from 20 years ago that was done by a group with ANTI DEATH PENALTY VIEWS!!!! How convenient.
keep tryin. i'm gettin a good laugh.

I find myself stuned that some of you think a 16 year old kid should be killed for being convicted of murder, especially when the system is so unfair. I guess the world is not really civilised in the slightest way.

Maybe you are the type that has had a silver spoon stuck in your mouth sense you were born and you dont know that the real world is not always fair to people that may not be as well off as you, i.e....rich?

Maybe I'm just talking to a bunch of kids that let their hormones overload their mouths.

Maybe someone tried to steal your silver spoon and you hate everyone that commits a crime.

Maybe you are from the streets and dont know why you made it out of your hell hole and the kid on death row ended up where he did.

Are we such a sorry race that we think it is OK to kill kids? How would you feel if your son or little girl that cant even vote was convicted by a jury and sentenced to death?

I pity most of you.

Durden, I never said you brought up God... odd as it might seem, there are other people posting on this thread, you'll notice that it's not just your handle and mine.

If you'd paid attention to my post, you'd have seen that I posted those links to show that there are broken people who can't be fixed. I don't know how to make it any clearer than I did.

I've not said that I feel every inmate should be killed due to financial considerations. I've also not said that I want the death penalty for bloodlust so am not changing my position at all. I would like those who murder and/or torture for sport or in cold blood to be eliminated so that they themselves, not as a deterrent to anyone else, but THEY won't be able to do it again. Eye for an eye, indeed. Why should they not pay with their lives instead of just their freedom?

And yes there are ways to have NO doubt. The links I provided prove that as well as those who videotape themselves committing these atrocities against others. If the killer videotapes himself torturing, raping and eventually killing a person, that's pretty much beyond reasonable and into absolute fact. In that case I have no problem with the death penalty. DNA 10 years after he's dead won't clear him.

I'll make it simple since I don't have vast amounts of time to sit and research link after link... and really don't need to in order to support my OPINION. I support the death penalty. I don't believe the justice system is flawless enough to accurately affix a penalty of death in many cases. I support the death penalty for offenders of any age 10 or above on a case by case basis. I never said "all of 'em" or "none of 'em". Case by case. I'm not a barbarian and not ignorant. I cite cost as a factor merely to point out what it will take to fix a badly broken system and beyond into the social causes of the prison situation itself. Personally... MY OWN OPINION... I'd rather pay the higher cost of execution for the people represented in the links I provided than know that year after year money is being spent to feed, house and educate these sub-humans. And again, I can't stress enough, I support the penalty, not the system. Which is why I'd want rock solid, undeniable proof of guilt.

I've got no silver spoon and never had one. I've known decent people and trash and everything in between. There is no hidden psychological agenda in my support of this punishment, it's very straightforward. Call it an eye for an eye or whatever you want, it boils down to the same thing. This person will not be doing this again. This person will not be enjoying the right to life when they've denied someone else that same right.

I'm done.

Originally posted by torque

And yes there are ways to have NO doubt. The links I provided prove that as well as those who videotape themselves committing these atrocities against others. If the killer videotapes himself torturing, raping and eventually killing a person, that's pretty much beyond reasonable and into absolute fact.

And then the defense attorney says there's a conspiracy and that the tape was created by prosecutors to frame his client. Look at the people on the site who are eager to believe even the most unreasonable conspiracy theories. There were people in the Arab world who claimed that 9/11 video was made in a Hollywood studio.

"Reasonable doubt" is a perfectly appropriate and adequate concept for all forms of punishment. It is a "sound, sensible, logically-based doubt based on the evidence presented."

[edit on 7/23/2004 by Eastern_Diamondback]

Originally posted by f10869
you basically call people stupid and pointless that don't share your views.

Please show me where I have called people "stupid and pointless". What I have done is considered your point of view and questioned your arguments. However, IMO the same can not be said for the majority of the pro crowd. The fact that thus far no reasonable answers to my arguments have turned up may make it seem like your arguments are "stupid and pointless" - you tell me.

you try and quote a study from 20 years ago that was done by a group with ANTI DEATH PENALTY VIEWS!!!! How convenient.

The study I think you may be referring to was reported in 1988 by The United Nations Committee on Crime Prevention and Control and their findings were presented in Uniform Crime Report. None of wich can be considered Anti Death Penalty Groups. I also provided links to research done as recently as 2002. Please pay attention.

keep tryin. i'm gettin a good laugh.

Laughing about an important issue such as this while you're ignoring the evidence presented really shows your actual attitude. Truly troubling.

Originally posted by torque
I'd rather pay the higher cost of execution for the people represented in the links I provided than know that year after year money is being spent to feed, house and educate these sub-humans.

You keep contradicting your own arguments. Now you'd be happy to pay more for capital punishment? Suddenly it's not about saving money. You really need to make up your mind in this.

I can see that for now, this discussion is pretty much pointless. I'm willing to take a partial blame in this. My initial goal was to try and make the pro death crowd do some serious thinking about the actual reasons for, and the consequences of their opinion. IMO this issue is far too important for opinions based on pure ignorance to be even remotely acceptable. However, my ambition to open some eyes in this question may have clouded my judgement in choosing the appropriate manner in doing so. I may have been coming off as arrogant and aggressive wich may have alienated some of you, causing resentment against my argument. If this is what has happened, I am sorry, because then I truly will have accomplished nothing.

As a principal I think it's just as wrong when people argue the abolition of capital punishment if that opinion is based on ignorance. I have never stated that the opinion of being pro death penalty is a stupid one. What I think is stupid is to form an opinion on this issue based on ignorance - whatever that opinion may be.

This question I think, is as simple as it is complex. IMHO it's simple when you consider the evidence about capital punishment not being effective as a deterrent, not being cheaper than life imprisonment and finally, not being successful in decreasing the amount of homicides; quite the contrary.

It's more complex when it comes to the moral aspects of such a punishment. My opinion is that the death penalty does more harm than good for a society. It legitimizes murder, it lessens the value of human life and it is an intolerable denial of civil liberties. It is also inconsistent with fundamental values of the democratic system. IMO, abolition of such a punishment is an important step in the evolution of society.

I would like to add that an eye for an eye - in its true meaning - can never be used as punishment in reality, so please refrain from using that argument. For if this would be used across the board - which if used it should - are we going to rape the rapists? Are we going to steal from thieves? Are we going to kill multiple murderes more than once? Capital punishment is not about an eye for an eye. It's about accepting legalized murder as the severest punishment.

Finally, I ask of you people to consider the actual consequences of capital punishment, which obviously, if not even more so, also goes for the killing of children in the name of the law. Because it will not come without consequences.

That is all.

EDIT: Spelling

[edit on 28-7-2004 by Durden]