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"ET" can't explain UFOs

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posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 10:32 PM
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OK this is a bit of a rant. I'm a "UFO contactee" and as such I'm pretty darn sick of how so many people seem to jump to the conclusion that UFOs are "ET" or "aliens". Its almost automatic. Its almost a knee-jerk reaction that the UFO phenomenon must be "aliens" or nothing, and "aliens" must be from another planet, another civilization based on technology such as spaceships.

But the closer one looks at the UFO phenomenon, the more it looks like the ET hypothesis of the man-on-the-street, as presented in movies and TV and comic books, just can't explain it and I'm pretty darn sick of how ignorant people are of that. Especially when they try to tie religion to aliens and alien technology to mysticism and parapsychological phenomenon. That just smacks of ignorance and I am so sick of seeing it all over ATS. People who do that really need to spend a year or two studying comparative religion, comparative mysticism, comparative mythology, philosophy and parapsychology. People need to read Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell, Jacques Vallee, Karen Armstrong, Aldous Huxley, Huston Smith, William James.

Please people, quit assuming that the ET hypothesis is correct. Its sloppy thinking and sloppy ufology.

Here is a good article.

The Enduring Enigma of the UFO

[...]


One of the first to explore the notion of mythology manifesting as physical reality was psychoanalyst Carl Jung, who in 1957 published the book Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky. More recently, authors Jacques Vallee (Dimensions: A Casebook of Alien Contact) and Keith Thompson (Angels and Aliens: UFOs and the Mythic Imagination) and folklorists Peter Rojcewicz and Thomas Bullard have written about the parallels among UFOs, folklore, and mythology. “Space-Age myth” does not imply that UFO sightings or encounters with angels, aliens, fairies, sprites, elves, or demons are fantasies. Rather, it suggests that some of these experiences may literally be psychophysical, blurring conventional boundaries between objective and subjective realities.

Some may object that this proposal doesn’t account for the physical traces associated with some UFO reports, but this misinterprets what Jung and others have proposed. They suggest that the manifest world emerges from mind, that is, that mind shapes matter. Where have we heard this before? In his book Global Mind Change, former IONS President Willis Harman discussed three basic ways of looking at the world. He called the current Western scientific worldview “materialistic monism,” or “M1.” Within M1, everything—both matter and energy— is made of a single substance. From matter emerges everything, including the brain-generated illusion called mind. In M1, angels and aliens walking through walls are fine plot points for an episode of The Twilight Zone, but they are impossible in the real world. In M1, UFOs are conceivable, but only in terms of hard, physical spacecraft with humanoid pilots. Most of the modern technological world was created based on M1 assumptions, so it carries enormous persuasive power.

But the whole panoply of noetic experiences defy materialistic explanations, suggesting that M1 is an incomplete worldview. Detailed taxonomies of these anomalies are described by all cultures; they include, among others, the Hindu siddhis, the Catholic charisms, Sufi attainments, and, in indigenous societies, shamanic magic.

Harman’s second worldview, M2, represents dualism, which assumes two fundamentally different kinds of substances in the universe, matter and mind. Many scientists today reject dualism because it begs the problem of how two deeply different substances could interact at all. In addition, it seems lavish to require the universe to maintain (at least) two distinct essences, when it would be far simpler to have only one.

The third worldview, M3, is transcendental or mental monism, which Harman argued is the source of both the perennial wisdom and the emerging worldview of the twenty-first century. In M3, consciousness is primary, and matter and energy are emergent properties of consciousness. M3 accommodates everything that M1 and M2 allow for, as well as rogue phenomena like telepathic ETs, observation-shy UFOs, and collective mind–manifested UFOs. Evidence in favor of M3 has been slowly amassing for over a century.

Such recent books as Irreducible Mind, Entangled Minds, and Measuring the Immeasurable (see review 0n page 41) discuss the empirical evidence in detail, ranging from psychic phenomena to creative genius to mind-body interactions to evidence suggestive of reincarnation.

A Persistent Taboo
If Willis Harman was right and as a species we are evolving toward an M3 worldview, then...


[...]

Thanks for reading my rant.



edit on 12-3-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)


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posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by Student X
 


Very interesting post. I've been of the opinion for a while that the ET hypothesis is the explanation for UFOs which least stretches our current worldview, but that is not to say it is the right one. Whatever is behind the phenomenon, it's at least as mind-boggling as the idea of advanced folks coming here from somewhere else, and quite possibly stranger than that.
edit on 12-3-2011 by Orkojoker because: typo



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 11:11 PM
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Very interesting.

The connection between conciousness and energy is astonishing. The scientific community needs to awaken to this possibility and bring it to their considerations. After that occurs, everything will change. Unless of course, TPTB allow this shift in awareness to happen at all but it seems were already heading that direction.

On the other hand, UFO's(in a ET/alien sense) could very well be mentally-generated/psychological distortions created from our sub-concious, reflecting themselves upon our reality. I'm still attempting to find the tangible science behind this phenomenon, but all I really know is our conscience can effect (and affect) our reality and each other in ways we cannot understand.

S&F for the great thread, as well so others realize our deeper connections with ourselves and the universe.






edit on 12-3-2011 by TheTruthSeeker1996 because: errors



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by Student X
 
I have Jung's book that is specifically about UFOs. Basically, like many experts out of their field, Jung knew nothing about the real phenomena in terms of a long, deep investigation of the things. He pegs UFOs as archtypes, ancient, basic aspects of the human consciousness. That is grossly short of explaining his theory, but will suffice to show what he didn't bother to learn about them before he started explaining them. Put him down as the psychologist's version to Philip Klass.

The OP claims to be an abductee. Perhaps he is. I make the same claim myself. It would be interesting to know the details of his experience. Perhaps like mine, he does not remember too much of his missing time. But I know the beginning and the ending of my experience and other things and they are exact indications of what seems to usually be the typical abduction case.

I won't mince words. He is absolutely wrong about the claiming that mind control is not a part of abductions. For him to say so, I must assume that he had an entirely conscious abduction that he knows from start to finish and has a reasonably good recall of the entire event. Such can certainly happen. In fact, if you didn't believe in mind control, that would be the ONLY way an abduction could happen unless they drugged you in some manner, but even at that he wouldn't know exactly what happened.

I would suggest that he is in denial. It is not uncommon. Either the whole event itself is blocked and not acknowledged to oneself, denied in some way, or partially denied as would seem to be his case. (I'm sorry, I have to make judgements on a lack of data here.)

As an abductee, this business with UFOs has been with me most of my life. I have been active in working with other abductees in helping them come to terms with their experiences. It can take years, even decades. I suggest that he has not come to accept that he can be controlled during the abduction and into even years after the event for some of us. That possibility is too much for some people to handle.


edit on 12-3-2011 by Aliensun because: word change



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by Orkojoker
reply to post by Student X
 


Very interesting post.


Thank you kindly!



I've been of the opinion for a while that the ET hypothesis is the explanation for UFOs which least stretches our current worldview, but that is not to say it is the right one.


Jaques Vallee would probably say that the UFO phenomenon will adapt to our evolving worldview to continue to stretch it, to prod us onward. It reacts to our worldviews like how a thermostat reacts to the temperature in our house, either cooling it when it gets too hot or heating it when it gets too cold.


Whatever is behind the phenomenon, it's at least as mind-boggling as the idea of advanced folks coming here from somewhere else, and quite possibly stranger than that.
edit on 12-3-2011 by Orkojoker because: typo


If there are advanced beings out there that evolved on another planet, then psychic projection / psychic teleportation (jaunting) would be far more economical and practical than clunky ol' nuts n' bolts spaceships.


edit on 12-3-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by Student X
 


Frankly, I don't see how in the world someone can describle themselves as a "mystic" as he does, and then deny special powers by others, especially in ETs of which we know very little about their capabilities.



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by TheTruthSeeker1996

On the other hand, UFO's(in a ET/alien sense) could very well be mentally-generated/psychological distortions created from our sub-concious, reflecting themselves upon our reality. I'm still attempting to find the tangible science behind this phenomenon, but all I really know is our conscience can effect (and affect) our reality and each other in ways we cannot understand.


Thats the direction I lean toward, with the caveat that the archetypes of the collective unconscious, which we don't so much create as project, are autonomous. And they also project us...


edit on 12-3-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:16 AM
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Great thread, and cheers for the link to the article. As for Jung : I don't think he was that wrong at all, and possibly a hundred or so years ahead of his time in some cases. It might turn out that in the near future people will be looking back at some of his work and wondering how the hell he managed to grasp what he did back then.

Admittedly I'm biased as I've been into Jungs way of seeing things to an extent for over a decade, but I just get a really strong feeling about some of his theories.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:47 AM
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From what I know I could tell that the unknown presence is mixed. The simple
logic that we are only one step to the truth and that they can be seen everywhere
in the space too as well as the achievements in the parapsychology speaks about
it. The universe is full of life and intelligence. I would suggest Dean Radin to dig
into the Russian parapsychology which is on a higher level and the Russians are
pride of it. In the ideas and theories sorrounding it the omnipresence of the
intelligence in the universe is recognised. They haven't only the exact theory
explaining everything, but they admit every possibility out of the mainstream
physics.

edit on 13-3-2011 by realitydiscovered because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 04:00 AM
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reply to post by Student X
 


I'm also a contactee. And there are different crafts, some are ours. Though even this is complicated. They are portalling entities, negatives, the so called star gates. The enitre field is so complex.

I have some of the memories and have had some contact, experiences less positive, and some that was very much so.

In this holographic universe, with infinite channels, Ets, are complex. Some are corporal, some from other channels, some entities, and without time itself, being real, timelines are all at once. Its very hard to work out. Including the solar system.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 04:28 AM
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I think the bitter division between "nuts and bolts" ufology and the mystic viewpoint is one of the reasons why the man on the street cannot get to grips with the subject.There needs to be a middle ground to at least examine both sides.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by CrashRetrieval
 


I'm going to assume that Student X in calling himself a mystic has not had an apparent physical confrontation with a typical UFO and crew. I also assume that he has sampled various regimes of substance and/or practice that has allowed him to see alternative realities. Finally, I assume he considers all reality as we know it as a false, self-created stage for our own satisfaction. So if we are creating this hardware for ourselves, why?

Believing in, if not creating UFOs and ETs, go against the common grain of the human ego. Arriving at a belieft in God as a magical power because Science has not provided the answer to early man is one thing, but for modern man with a smattering of of Science to accept the premise that advanced technologies and beings are out there is hardly an explanation of some deeper need in the human psyche. Belief in God is an answer. Belief in ETs is acceptance.

The physical UFOs are a presence that must fit into whatever total scheme we suspect of Nature. As we seem to exist as a type of reality, so must those things obviously exist elbow to elbow with us. Yet he would deny their evidence for being as physical as we? That amounts to the conventioal debunker's position which is that no matter what the UFO "evidence" shows, such cannot be.

As far as we know, there is a physical reality within what we ae operating right now, or else nothing is real, we don't exist. Whatever we are pretending to be involved in, right here and now, must be conforming to some general laws of the Universe or the whole program would not work. It the UFOs and ETs seem to present physical things to us, we have to accept that as possible in some fashion because it makes sense to our understanding of the Universe. Otherwise, is it just a big joke we pull on ourselves? Or is it an outside force (a God) having fun at our expense?

Certainly there may be other realities and dimensions and time-shifting capabilities that we can never fully understand, but to go wandering off into territories of over-intellectualizing while dismissing the obvious is not straight thinking.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by Student X
 


I'm also a contactee.


High five!


And there are different crafts, some are ours. Though even this is complicated. They are portalling entities, negatives, the so called star gates. The enitre field is so complex.


Could be. I have no problem with an esoteric "ET" hypothesis that acknowledges the subtleties and complexities which elude the exoteric oversimplified "ET" hypothesis of Hollywood and comic books.


In this holographic universe, with infinite channels, Ets, are complex. Some are corporal, some from other channels, some entities, and without time itself, being real, timelines are all at once. Its very hard to work out. Including the solar system.


I have no problem with corporeal entities. Physical craft and physical forms don't contradict my mystical take on things. After all, matter comes from Mind. An archetype of the collective unconscious can take corporeal form through mind-over-matter, mind-over-energy. A physical craft or device can be endowed with mystical abilities through consciousness. The result of such a mystical process would be called "alien technology" by those operating under an oversimplified ET hypothesis.


edit on 13-3-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by Student X
I'm pretty darn sick of how so many people seem to jump to the conclusion that UFOs are "ET" or "aliens".


Sorry to hear that you did become pretty darn sick of that.
But you claim here that you are a "UFO contactee", does that mean that you are in contact with one or perhaps even more UFO’s?



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by spacevisitor

Originally posted by Student X
I'm pretty darn sick of how so many people seem to jump to the conclusion that UFOs are "ET" or "aliens".


Sorry to hear that you did become pretty darn sick of that.


Thanks, I appreciate your sympathy!



But you claim here that you are a "UFO contactee", does that mean that you are in contact with one or perhaps even more UFO’s?


I am in contact with that which the man-on-the-street with an oversimplified Hollywood-esque concept of "ET" would call "aliens", yes.


edit on 13-3-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by Student X
I am in contact with that which the man-on-the-street would call "aliens", yes.


Oke, are you able to describe in laymen’s words with what or who it is that you are in contact with?



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by spacevisitor

Originally posted by Student X
I am in contact with that which the man-on-the-street would call "aliens", yes.


Oke, are you able to describe in laymen’s words with what or who it is that you are in contact with?


Layman's words are the problem. They are too exoteric to grasp the esoteric subtleties and complexities. I am a student of comparative mythology, comparative mysticism, comparative religion. One of the things you pick up from these vast fields is how limited and misleading language can be.

All words are metaphors. They are merely fingers pointing to the moon. People tend to get stuck on the finger and miss the moon. "Alien" is also a metaphor and its one that people take far too literally. We need to learn to look past it.

In Jungian terms I am in contact with archetypes of the collective unconscious in symbolic forms. In "layman's terms" I am in contact with "aliens" and who knows what kind of imagery goes on in a layman's head when they use that obsolete word.


edit on 13-3-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by Student X
 


When my son and I witnessed crafts for 1 1/2 years, starting in the spring of 08, it was always with contact, greetings. My son, now 19, felt called out by them, he would call me out, but he didn't get the same greetings. Though he had several missing time occurrences, 1 hour, and 2, while up,. For one of them, I knew ahead time, that we were going to be abducted, I was prepared ahead time. I don't believe that was a black op experience despite the wounds afterwards. Because of the knowing, and also what I did remember. Though memories themselves under the circumstances of contact, can be completely altered. Time is illusion, based on orbit, in Infinity there is No Time, also, all the we see, feel, touch, hear, know of the solid real world around us, is translated energy waves, and placed on a screen in the back of our mind. What is really around us is condensed energy waves.

Since its all formed in our mind by programs in our brain, this is all capable of being hijacked. The metaphor of a dvd player, we're the player for the universe and all the infinite channels, and they have the remotes, is a good one.

When I doubted the contact, because some of it was simply contacting me, telepathy, images and a message, and some of it was possibly astral as well, just suddenly there, and interacting as if it was real, my son and I would see another craft.

Some of these crafts showed up on radar, because there were black choppers chasing. My son called me out to watch one finally, after telling me it occurred for about 2 weeks.

Another time there were scout planes and a Vrill type tr3b joined them.

So, the crafts we saw were peopled. They were not Vrill, as our black ops pursued. Even a bad experience could have had reasons, however, many were very positive.

My entire family saw crafts with a whole campsite as a child, and later one my friend and I, my brother who had 2 hours missing time, my grandmother spoke of something coming through the window, and though alarmed pulled back into sleep, she believed ET.

So what we experienced had pilots. They weren't just military drones or crafts. For crafts equated ET.

Also, crafts themselves, the deeper I got into the rabbit whole, having an experience with Higher Self as well, contemplating the Infinity within, the more I started to understand Infinity, in a rudimentary way. More advanced races are millions of years ahead in technology. The whole, there is no measurement possible in Infinity. Any attempt to take a fraction of it, or place a dot, has the same endless Infinity surrounding in all directions, and in all things, inner and outer. Ie. ininfities within. Horton Hears A Who. A grain of sand has the same endless volume of immeasurable Infinity within as a star has, and both can be divided unto infinity.
We are Infinite Consciousness. There are many types of matter/energy. There is matter, the makings and recyclings of the infinite universes, and there is Soul/Intellect.

So, black op crafts are crafts. But what is an ET craft? When Sleeper and Observe50 described a certain craft about 30 feet in diameter, with a circular hallway on the outer corrider and many interior rooms, I had overwhelming panic. I had already had flashbacks since childhood to the same craft. Its far bigger within tan without.

In Infinity, its like separate rooms, of various sizes can be arranges, because of the measurement problem, there is none.

So with ET, a craft can be more. We could see a craft, and it could be a space critter. Like a flying manta type or other types of space critters. This part I'm not very familiar with, and don't understand. But I was told they could transfer humans, almost like insects or microorganisms almost to another sector of space. It really sounded alarming, but this universe is far different. Its not just what we see.

ET can be a doorway, a portal. We experience a craft, but its Gateway experience, and we'er in another channel, or station, planet, galaxy even I was told. Things are simply not what we think.

Of the more physical corporal ones that are around earth, there is good and bad on both sides. There is always light in dark as well. I send out unconditional love.

But the Future interacts, in no time, its more a locale, a clip in the film. Many positive experiences are Family, people are experiencing. Their family here is a part of this. Families are forever. We have large families in infinity. And Future more advanced, loving people watching over us. Each and every one of us counts and earth is like a school.


edit on 13-3-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 10:40 AM
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Any technology of sufficient advance will appear as magic to us.

I think Arthur C Clarke said that. So it's not a surprise someone would think of the supernatural.

That's why new age cults and indigo cults are so popular in ufology.

They fail because they're not critical and thus magic becomes its own explanation.

It's also not a surprise that people are prejudice from the start because they don't believe in magic.

So they explain ufos through non-magical means: stars, swamp gas, hallucination, lies, etc.

They fail to acknowledge the full details because things outside of current convention are discarded.

I think there could be a middleground in rare cases. Where ET probes have actually visited us. But this truth goes unheard because it gets drowned out in the mass of BS circulating in ufology. And even in cases where you have good credible witnesses and maybe some soil samples, it can still be explained through other means. Just have a look at the meteorites they keep finding and claiming that ET is in them and then there's this back and forth storm that erupts and then the initial claims are put to rest because of the plausible uncertainty and doubt in the conclusions. We need an actual UFO that we can closely examine in multiple laboratories across the world - little else will satisfy us. This inability to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and the 99 out of 100 cases that're BS, the back and forth between believers and debunkers, the inability of our culture to accept higher powers than our own, the tendency to form cults and supernatural explanations, and whatnot, continues to keep our feet firmly planted on the ground and our awareness away from these strange craft.

So the evidence in ufology is 99.8% testimony. The rest might be odd but rare soil samples. There is no known irrefutable proof that UFOs are ET. This doesn't help matters at all because it just encourages BS and ridicule to spread. It pits witnesses against prejudice. The prejudice is that we're the center of everything, that humanity matters, that we're the best of the best. When confronted with a superior power, we explain it away or ridicule it or bury it. We're incredulous. When you factor into this equation the possibility that government factions might be attempting to misinform and fill the airways with BS in addition to all of the BS that's already there, and that the UFO occupants themselves do not want to be known, then it's no surprise the truth is elusive and escapes us.

Bottom line, we cannot explain them. How you react to that determines what you do with it.

For all we know the last remaining genuine ET craft left our solar system a decade ago. And how would we know. It got buried amongst the plentiful junk. We may never know the truth.
edit on 13-3-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 


Thanks for sharing. Physical craft occupied by physical beings does not mean non-mystical and does not mean ET. Read Wonders in the Sky: Unexplained Aerial Objects from Antiquity to Modern Times

Back when the UFO phenomenon manifested in the form of 'airships' or 'chariots', they were occupied too.


edit on 13-3-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)



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