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Point Of No Return: U.S. And NATO Prepare For War With Libya

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posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by FPB214


Who is saying they had WMD? I haven't said that. WMD or not, Iraq is better off without Saddam as long as they prosper within the next decade or two and get a fair government that does it's job with respect to its people. Im not saying the invasion was, in the end, the right thing to do. Yet, what's done is done, the only thing to do now is to move forward. Iraq will hopefully do that and in the coming years may become a better country than it ever was under Saddam.

Nearly every leader, especially dictators, have had assassination attempts. Even Saddam.

You are missing the point, which is that the WMD were your excuse for the invasion. Now you're insanely claiming to believe that the Iraqi people are better off. I gave a heap of reasons why they're not, which you ignore.
Now you're saying they might be sometime in the future, which is rubbish...
For you to say "Meh, what's done is done" is incredibly evil. Your country, with your approval did it. Half a million extra child deaths. Does that bother your conscience? I suspect you wouldn't know a conscience if it jumped up and bit you in the throat.
Vicky
Vicky




posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:12 AM
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It looks like it's going to happen, but I personally don't see how. I hope not.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by FPB214


Who is saying they had WMD? I haven't said that. WMD or not, Iraq is better off without Saddam as long as they prosper within the next decade or two and get a fair government that does it's job with respect to its people. Im not saying the invasion was, in the end, the right thing to do. Yet, what's done is done, the only thing to do now is to move forward. Iraq will hopefully do that and in the coming years may become a better country than it ever was under Saddam.

Nearly every leader, especially dictators, have had assassination attempts. Even Saddam.

You are missing the point, which is that the WMD were your excuse for the invasion. Now you're insanely claiming to believe that the Iraqi people are better off. I gave a heap of reasons why they're not, which you ignore.
Now you're saying they might be sometime in the future, which is rubbish...
For you to say "Meh, what's done is done" is incredibly evil. Your country, with your approval did it. Half a million extra child deaths. Does that bother your conscience? I suspect you wouldn't know a conscience if it jumped up and bit you in the throat.
Vicky
Vicky


I'm sorry but were is your proof about the half million child deaths?

Infant mortality rate:
Definition Field Listing Rank Order
total: 50.25 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 56.06 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 44.14 deaths/1,000 live births (2005 est.)

doesn't sound like half a million deaths to me.. not even close.. unless you find a source for you claim..

sounds like you were buying into propaganda as well there lol..



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 04:20 AM
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Originally posted by FPB214

Originally posted by 13th Zodiac

Originally posted by FPB214
If anything at all I thought we would just impose a no-fly zone, which is more than likely what will happen. No need to have a real "war" over it. The rebels are only asking for help against the attacks from the sky, if they say they can handle the rest on the ground, let them prove themselves and give them what they want.


No Nation has the right to dictate to another over their own sovereign air space .To impose and enforce a no-fly zone requires the physical destruction of airfields,inferstructure and planes to achieve this objective .Sounds like a fully blown war to me friend .Do you think they would just ask nicely ? They do this and it is beyound the point of talk and no return ! If this was done to your country would you just sit back and allow it .No you would defend your country from a unwelcome foreign invader and be labelled a terrorist .Gotta love that label just for defending your home .


I understand what a no fly zone means in terms of actions. I agree with your statement, the thing is (from what we are hearing) they are asking for the international community to help. You see Libyan's with signs saying they want a no fly zone, so why would they all of a sudden turn on the force that is giving them what they need/want?

"We can handle the troops on foot, but we want help from the world to take out Ghaddafi's air power"

"Oh wait, your giving us what we want, now we are going to shoot you down from the sky for helping us"

Doesn't make sense.


Can you give me the numbers of the Libyians carrying these said signs and supporting the rebel movement ? What is the percentage ? Can you provide proof that these rebels are even Libyians ? They all speak very good English when interviewed. Can you also show me one ,just one piece of video image that actually has fighter jets - bombing and dead or dying people all in one frame of footage ? I can show you better ufo hoaxes on youtube than what exist's of these said claims about Gaddaffi .

Don't you think that thousands of civillians will be killed ,just like the airbombing actions in Afganastan? Next there will be (FALSE) stories of Gaddaffi's men hiding in schools and hospitals ! You know what is going to happen then don't you my friend ? WMD's in food and electricity producing plants .
Anyone who believe's the rubbish in the media and supports this is guilty and has blood on their hands .People like that need to be drafted and show just how they are prepared to support those convictions instead of sitting at home watching tv in comfort with a good meal ,while these people are murdered .

www.youtube.com... Watch this from 5.55 onwards he makes some very valid statements .

Here is some live footage of first gulf war filmed and reported from a hollywood basement if you know what I mean ? www.youtube.com...
edit on 17-3-2011 by 13th Zodiac because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2011 by 13th Zodiac because: adding links



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 04:29 AM
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Originally posted by schuyler
You guys who speak of "illegal occupations" and present the idea that the Iraqi people were better off under Saddam really have no idea what you are talking about. If you'd said anything similar as an Iraqi citizen of Iraqi government policies while in Iraq, you'd likely be dead now. They had an interesting way of executing you so you could serve as an example to anyone else who might be thinking of opening his mouth. In each village they had a commercial grade heavy-duty shredder. They were blue in color. Normally they'd stick you in feet first so you could watch yourself be consumed before the shredder hit your vital organs. By that time you likely would be unconscious, fortunately for you, but witnesses could and were forced to see the entire thing.

Saddam's sons, in particular Uday, were known as psycopathic killers. Once Uday killed his father's food taster at a party, bludgeoning him to death before finishing him off with an electric knife. Uday also was famous for torturing Olympic atheltes for failing to win games, dragging them through a gravel pit and immersing them is sewage to induce infection. The younger son, Qusay, had a novel approach to prison over-crowding. He'd just summarily execute the inmates to make room for more. Saddam himself rose through the ranks as a contract killer for the previous regime. Of course, he is well known for his genocidal attack against the Kurds with poison gas. All told Saddam was responsible for the murder of several hundred thousand Iraqis.

Of course, here, you can say anything you want from the safety of your college dorm rooms and know that the Republican Guards are not going to visit you in the middle of the night to drag you off for an appointment with a blue shredding machine. Lucky you.



Did you see this happen ?
Will you testify in court ?
or is it second hand hear say ?
or where you told by a friend of a friend ?

Well which is it ?



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by Reaper2137



I'm sorry but were is your proof about the half million child deaths?

Infant mortality rate:
Definition Field Listing Rank Order
total: 50.25 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 56.06 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 44.14 deaths/1,000 live births (2005 est.)

doesn't sound like half a million deaths to me.. not even close.. unless you find a source for you claim..

sounds like you were buying into propaganda as well there lol..

There was a study done and published by The Lancet, giving details about the excess deaths caused by the invasion...
It's very well-known (or so I always thought..)
I have found some links...
Wikipedia
Global Research article
(I see the Lancet figure is 100 000 which God knows is bad enough!)
Vicky



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 06:58 AM
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Don't know if this has already been posted and how reliable this source is but the link below basically states that the US are going to hit Libya.

Read it and let me know your thoughts!

www.debka.com...



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:33 AM
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Looks like it's gonna kick off within 24 hours.

Let The Bombing Commence: UN Set To Impose "No Fly Zone" Over Libya

The endgame in Libya begins. The UN has agreed on a draft resolution to implement a no fly zone over Libya, which means the bombing may commence as soon as the vote passes later today. As to what Gaddafi's retaliation will be, and whether he will burn down the oil wells, which previously were in rebel hands, but have since fallen back into his control, we will surely find out in the next 24 hours. From AFP: "UN Security Council members agreed on a draft resolution that will impose a no-fly zone over Libya, diplomats in New York said. The decision will be brought up for a vote later in the day."



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by Reaper2137



I'm sorry but were is your proof about the half million child deaths?

Infant mortality rate:
Definition Field Listing Rank Order
total: 50.25 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 56.06 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 44.14 deaths/1,000 live births (2005 est.)

doesn't sound like half a million deaths to me.. not even close.. unless you find a source for you claim..

sounds like you were buying into propaganda as well there lol..

There was a study done and published by The Lancet, giving details about the excess deaths caused by the invasion...
It's very well-known (or so I always thought..)
I have found some links...
Wikipedia
Global Research article
(I see the Lancet figure is 100 000 which God knows is bad enough!)
Vicky


Infant and child death rates

In a March 5, 2007 article[63] in The Times, economist Michael Spagat says there is a perplexing finding in the 2006 Lancet report that child deaths have fallen.

A May 25, 2000 BBC article[64] reported that before Iraq sanctions were imposed by the UN in 1990, infant mortality had "fallen to 47 per 1,000 live births between 1984 and 1989. This compares to approximately 7 per 1,000 in the UK." The BBC article was reporting from a study of the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, titled "Sanctions and childhood mortality in Iraq", that was published in the May 2000 Lancet medical journal.[65][66]

The 2000 BBC article reported that after the UN sanctions were imposed after Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait, "They found that in south and central Iraq, infant mortality had risen to 108 per 1,000 between 1994 and 1999, while child mortality - covering those between one and five years - rocketed from 56 to 131 per 1,000."

The 2000 BBC article also reported, "However, it found that infant and child mortality in the autonomous, mainly Kurd region in the North of the country, has actually fallen, perhaps reflecting the more favourable distribution of aid in that area."

The UN sanctions ended on May 22, 2003 (with certain arms-related exceptions).[67]

I'm having trouble with this.. this pretty much concurs with what I wrote about the child mortality I'm asking because I read both of your sites and not once did it say over a million children dead..

now if your talking about adults than yes I see the numbers are very high.. it would be the same if not worse for any other country going to war.

take a good look at rowanda or most of africa that is a state of civil war and has been for almost 20 years now.

while the russians have left chex alone for a bit the rates were most likley the same as well..

WAR is hell and no matter what country you look at civi deaths are a part of it.

hopefully one day with the advent of new tech civi deaths will be kept to the min.

we can only pray for that.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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I was going to do a thread on the latest update regarding US air strikes, but did a search and found this thread. So it seems the strikes are moving closer to being reality now. The UN is now involved and if I were a betting man, I would say the strikes will happen. But, I would never literally bet on devastation, just saying....


spec



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
Looks like it's gonna kick off within 24 hours.

Let The Bombing Commence: UN Set To Impose "No Fly Zone" Over Libya

The endgame in Libya begins. The UN has agreed on a draft resolution to implement a no fly zone over Libya, which means the bombing may commence as soon as the vote passes later today. As to what Gaddafi's retaliation will be, and whether he will burn down the oil wells, which previously were in rebel hands, but have since fallen back into his control, we will surely find out in the next 24 hours. From AFP: "UN Security Council members agreed on a draft resolution that will impose a no-fly zone over Libya, diplomats in New York said. The decision will be brought up for a vote later in the day."


Well isn't the biblical tribe of Dan (Denmark) inviting trouble on their citizens ?Wonder what new cartoons they'll have now ?



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by wongy
 


Arab nations have requested a no fly zone in Libya. Most Arab nations have state-of-the-art aircraft and capable pilots. Let them police their regions.


Peace................yak055h



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 04:52 PM
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Iraq, Afganistan, we wish Iran and now Libya another illegal war..what the heck is the diffence between a u.s. 'declared' war and what we have been doing around the world? 250,000 troops is not a 'war'? years of military occupation and military action in a country is not a 'war'? the u.s. has reverted back to the 18th centuary and thinks that it can controll the world by force and intimidation..and guess what.unfortunatly it seems to be working. what a shame to see what was once such a great country think that it is better than everybody else and the it is the moral standard that others should, not look up to, but listen to.

u.s. hypocrisy knows no bounds



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by clearmind
 


So they ask for help and you blame the U.S military for being Warmongers again? does peoples idiocy know no bounds?




posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by FPB214


Who is saying they had WMD? I haven't said that. WMD or not, Iraq is better off without Saddam as long as they prosper within the next decade or two and get a fair government that does it's job with respect to its people. Im not saying the invasion was, in the end, the right thing to do. Yet, what's done is done, the only thing to do now is to move forward. Iraq will hopefully do that and in the coming years may become a better country than it ever was under Saddam.

Nearly every leader, especially dictators, have had assassination attempts. Even Saddam.

You are missing the point, which is that the WMD were your excuse for the invasion. Now you're insanely claiming to believe that the Iraqi people are better off. I gave a heap of reasons why they're not, which you ignore.
Now you're saying they might be sometime in the future, which is rubbish...
For you to say "Meh, what's done is done" is incredibly evil. Your country, with your approval did it. Half a million extra child deaths. Does that bother your conscience? I suspect you wouldn't know a conscience if it jumped up and bit you in the throat.
Vicky
Vicky


Your not understanding me. First off, I was in grade school when "we" invaded, at the time I had barely a clue what was happening. You come off as if I was screaming "Invade Iraq, Invade Iraq" when it happened, yet at the time I had better things to do like go outside and ride around on a scooter. Now that I reflect, we all know we did not find evidence of WMD, hell if it happened right now I would probably not approve of invading Iraq. Fact is, Hussein was a dictator, he wasn't some nice princess who treated his people with great respect, or was he? From what i've learned, he did what most dictators do, which is treat your citizens unfairly, cruely, and rule them with an iron fist. Sure, they might have been "better off" compared to their prime up to today, but im positive (depending on the people) they will one day be a better country then they ever were. Without being ruled by one man.

You once again misunderstood where I was coming from, here's how I see it. What's done IS done. We learn from the past, but we don't dwell on it and beat ourselves up. It's like the German people, are they beating themselves up and hating themselves for what their country did during WWII? NO. They put the bad thingsin the past and move forward. I care about EVERY single human being on this Earth, no matter where they come from, what they enjoy, what religion they hold etc. So for you to say im evil is actually humerous. Also the fact that you act like I was backing this whole thing, when once again, I was too young to completely understand.

I knwo right from wrong. Every country, including the states has it's rights and wrongs, it's good times and bad times. The U.S is not perfect whatsoever. The killing of innocents happen in war, it is very sad and I feel sorrow for the souls that lost their lives for just being in the middle of it. Yet, that's how it is. Still, when parents were strapping bombs to their children to kill Americans, that's loving now huh? Im sure many innocents were killed, though many of the killings were also coming from the opposition.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by 13th Zodiac

Originally posted by FPB214

Originally posted by 13th Zodiac

Originally posted by FPB214
If anything at all I thought we would just impose a no-fly zone, which is more than likely what will happen. No need to have a real "war" over it. The rebels are only asking for help against the attacks from the sky, if they say they can handle the rest on the ground, let them prove themselves and give them what they want.


No Nation has the right to dictate to another over their own sovereign air space .To impose and enforce a no-fly zone requires the physical destruction of airfields,inferstructure and planes to achieve this objective .Sounds like a fully blown war to me friend .Do you think they would just ask nicely ? They do this and it is beyound the point of talk and no return ! If this was done to your country would you just sit back and allow it .No you would defend your country from a unwelcome foreign invader and be labelled a terrorist .Gotta love that label just for defending your home .


I understand what a no fly zone means in terms of actions. I agree with your statement, the thing is (from what we are hearing) they are asking for the international community to help. You see Libyan's with signs saying they want a no fly zone, so why would they all of a sudden turn on the force that is giving them what they need/want?

"We can handle the troops on foot, but we want help from the world to take out Ghaddafi's air power"

"Oh wait, your giving us what we want, now we are going to shoot you down from the sky for helping us"

Doesn't make sense.


Can you give me the numbers of the Libyians carrying these said signs and supporting the rebel movement ? What is the percentage ? Can you provide proof that these rebels are even Libyians ? They all speak very good English when interviewed. Can you also show me one ,just one piece of video image that actually has fighter jets - bombing and dead or dying people all in one frame of footage ? I can show you better ufo hoaxes on youtube than what exist's of these said claims about Gaddaffi .

Don't you think that thousands of civillians will be killed ,just like the airbombing actions in Afganastan? Next there will be (FALSE) stories of Gaddaffi's men hiding in schools and hospitals ! You know what is going to happen then don't you my friend ? WMD's in food and electricity producing plants .
Anyone who believe's the rubbish in the media and supports this is guilty and has blood on their hands .People like that need to be drafted and show just how they are prepared to support those convictions instead of sitting at home watching tv in comfort with a good meal ,while these people are murdered .

www.youtube.com... Watch this from 5.55 onwards he makes some very valid statements .

Here is some live footage of first gulf war filmed and reported from a hollywood basement if you know what I mean ? www.youtube.com...
edit on 17-3-2011 by 13th Zodiac because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2011 by 13th Zodiac because: adding links


To be honest I don't know if thousands of civillians will be killed. Even if, without help they will be killed anyway. They are murdering women, children, and the elderly already. Also i've been wanting to join the Army Rangers for 14 years now, so I don't have to be "drafted" to see what it's like. I don't want to take lives, just something i've wanted to do. My brother will recruit me and he's already gone over 3 times. Fact is, their are real terrorist's who are willing to kill Americans, Brits, Canadians, and in fact their very own people. Also, I saw the "Libyans" with signs saying they wanted a no fly zone on the news. Their are "rebels" who are asking for help, and im sure it's not all done in a studio as you think. It's a real problem, and they want help. My hope is we destroy Quaddafi's forces with practically NO civillian/rebel deaths. That is likely not to happen, but hopefully we can keep the numbers down, and do enough damage to Quadaffi and see if the rebels can handle the rest like they say.

Also, your telling me someone with a bomb coming after you, or a with a gun trying to shoot you, it's murder for trying to stay alive? You think when an American sees a young little boy he is going to shoot him for fun because we are "murdering" them? No, they kill out of protection, they are serving their country and doing their job. We see the anti-American protests from certain people, yet once they are in deep # because of their OWN country, they cry for our help. Once we help, we are ridiculed again. Like i've said, I care for every human being and would love to help, but I also don't like it when I feel that way yet a muslim from Bahrain would tell me he hates me because of where im from. That's just uneducated, and usually the reasons are general stereotypes wich is led by ignorance.

It's not murder, because the young soldiers their may have joined for educational/college/career purposes, or just because it's something they have wanted to do since practically birth. They aren't evil savages purposely murdering innocent human beings.
edit on 17-3-2011 by FPB214 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2011 by FPB214 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:03 PM
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posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by Reaper2137



take a good look at rowanda (sic - it's RWANDA or most of Africa that is in a state of civil war and has been for almost 20 years now.

while the Russians have left chex (?) alone for a bit the rates were most likley the same as well..


hopefully one day with the advent of new tech civi deaths will be kept to the min.

we can only pray for that.


Yeah, like that's going to happen...
Too late to post, I discovered another link - but why in heaven's name are you quibbling over numbers? Way to ignore the point!
If it were 10 extra deaths that could be laid at the feet of Dubya, the American military and ultimately every American who did not protest or resist the illegal wars and invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, you would still be guilty as hell. You would all still be entitled to the utmost contempt and loathing that one human being can give another. But instead of repenting in shame, you're boasting or arguing that it's "only" 100 000 or 650 000
Washington Post says 650 000
(Oh and I hope you don't mind, I fixed up your spelling of countries and nationalities. It's only courteous to get those right..) Especially if you're thinking of 'pacifying' those places any time soon!



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 07:33 AM
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Originally posted by FPB214

Fact is, Hussein was a dictator, he wasn't some nice princess who treated his people with great respect, or was he?

No one ever said he was a nice guy! Those of us who opposed the invasion at the time were accused of being Saddam lovers, Saddam supporters, which so pissed me off! Trying to explain to people even here in NZ, that being against an illegal war for oil didn't mean supporting an illegal dictator, took up a lot of energy, which of course was the whole idea! Distract, distract...


Originally posted by FPB214
but im positive (depending on the people) they will one day be a better country then they ever were.

That's possible - but not likely. Before 2003, they had literacy and child health rates superior to those of the USA... let alone the rest of the Middle East. Now, half the country doesn't even have reliable electricity! They're not better off now, which is the point...


Originally posted by FPB214
It's like the German people, are they beating themselves up and hating themselves for what their country did during WWII?

Er, yes they are. A few years back, I had a German fiance, and I have met many, many German people of the generation whose parents and grandparents fought in WW2. Yes, they are beating themselves up about it!




Originally posted by FPB214 Still, when parents were strapping bombs to their children to kill Americans, that's loving now huh?

When did that happen? If you're talking about since the invasion, you've been fed propaganda! If you were "in grade school" when it happened, that means you're what, the same as my son, about 24 years old? Old enough to think for yourself I would have thought...
If say, Indonesia, to pick one, no not Indonesia, some of the nuttier people here will immediately think "evil Obama" so let's not pick a hate word, so say Malaysia, invaded the USA wouldn't y'all fight back? Cook up a few IEDs? But let's not hear any more pezzi di merda about bombs strapped to children! (You're getting your anti-Palestinian #e mixed up with your anti-Iraqi nonsense.
V,



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by FPB214

Fact is, Hussein was a dictator, he wasn't some nice princess who treated his people with great respect, or was he?

No one ever said he was a nice guy! Those of us who opposed the invasion at the time were accused of being Saddam lovers, Saddam supporters, which so pissed me off! Trying to explain to people even here in NZ, that being against an illegal war for oil didn't mean supporting an illegal dictator, took up a lot of energy, which of course was the whole idea! Distract, distract...


Originally posted by FPB214
but im positive (depending on the people) they will one day be a better country then they ever were.

That's possible - but not likely. Before 2003, they had literacy and child health rates superior to those of the USA... let alone the rest of the Middle East. Now, half the country doesn't even have reliable electricity! They're not better off now, which is the point...


Originally posted by FPB214
It's like the German people, are they beating themselves up and hating themselves for what their country did during WWII?

Er, yes they are. A few years back, I had a German fiance, and I have met many, many German people of the generation whose parents and grandparents fought in WW2. Yes, they are beating themselves up about it!




Originally posted by FPB214 Still, when parents were strapping bombs to their children to kill Americans, that's loving now huh?

When did that happen? If you're talking about since the invasion, you've been fed propaganda! If you were "in grade school" when it happened, that means you're what, the same as my son, about 24 years old? Old enough to think for yourself I would have thought...
If say, Indonesia, to pick one, no not Indonesia, some of the nuttier people here will immediately think "evil Obama" so let's not pick a hate word, so say Malaysia, invaded the USA wouldn't y'all fight back? Cook up a few IEDs? But let's not hear any more pezzi di merda about bombs strapped to children! (You're getting your anti-Palestinian #e mixed up with your anti-Iraqi nonsense.
V,


During the invasion, children were becoming suicide bombers. You weren't there, I know people including my brother who has been there, it's real and it happened. As horrible as it sounds, the few that were cowards were putting their damn children in front of the face of death. The majority were unsuccessful at killing the Americans, considering they were just children, so they died for nothing in the end. This is information from soldiers who were there, suck it up and admit it. It happened. You know it's pathetic, and can't take the blinders off and see both sides of the story.

Also, the few people you "dated", if even true, are naive for beating themselves up, or weak for not being strong and moving forward to become a great country and putting what was done in the past. Hitler was a madman, horrible things happened in WW2 but for the most part, German soldiers (besides the SS) were just fighting for their country doing their job just as the Allies were. There is no reason to beat yourself up over something that happened 70 years ago. To be honest, their are some things in my family history I am not proud of, and sincerely condemn. Yet, I don't sit here and beat myself up because of something someone else did, I tell myself I am me and I will not make the same mistake and become someone im not. Germany is a great country now, they learned from the past as the world did, and for the most part I can guarantee they look forward towards the future. Not cry everyday for something that happened, but they always remember it and teach it to show the next generation why it was horrible so it is not repeated.

Your telling me in the next 100 years it is not likely that Iraq will be better? We can go many ways, but with more people seeing things for what they really are, I believe many countries (not just Iraq) will eventually prosper and yes, be better than they were before. If we could see 50-100 years from now and see Iraq as a fair, prosperous nation, im sure you would deny it because then the war in Iraq would have actually served a good purpose. Like I said, Iraq can be anything the Iraqi people want it to be, it takes time, dedication, and true motive to do so, but it is very possible. This goes for the many countries who are standing up right now to the regime's that have controlled them for many years.

In the end, you obviously knew he was not a nice guy. You might have opposed the war like many, but once people saw Saddam's regime crumble, they had hope for the future because they were now free of the iron fist. They will go through hard times, but through all the hard times/devestation/destruction/violence/death comes the prosperous good times. It's been proven time and time again throughout history. There are people in Iraq who felt safer and were actually glad the troops were there after the regime was demolished, but you'd deny that to.
edit on 18-3-2011 by FPB214 because: (no reason given)



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