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Will todays kids ever know a Natural Blue Sky? (Chemtrails)

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posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by Seagle
 


Utter drivel. You know it, too.

The recent volcanic eruptions are the clear evidence (actually, I mean that literally) that "chemmies" and their claims that contrails are "something else" just because they're so visible?

Nonsense.

The sorts of particulates that are spewed in volcanic eruptions, and then spread in the atmosphere, are very much similar to the ideas and proposals being suggested as a form of man-made geoengineering.

And, guess what? Invisible. For the most part, the dispersed regions of airborne particulates cannot be seen. Exception is during times of low Sun angles, such as sunrise and sunset, because of the sheer many, many more miles/kilometers of atmosphere they are being viewed through, and thus the concentrations are "thicker", at the oblique angles.

Contrails, just like cirrus clouds, are so apparent and obvious BECAUSE they are composed of ice crystals.

The types of geoengineering methods being imagined would NOT appear to resemble contrails, nor cirrus clouds!!! If they could be seen at all, they would be dissimilar.....and, the fact that the same sorts of refractions that are so obvious from the volcanic-affected skies at low Sun angles, are NOT being seen?? Absolute proof that the "chemmies" are completely delusional.




posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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The sorts of particulates that are spewed in volcanic eruptions, and then spread in the atmosphere, are very much similar to the ideas and proposals being suggested as a form of man-made geoengineering.
reply to post by weedwhacker
 


What sort of particulates would that be?

And how does this theory of yours negate the fact that lots of people can see with their own eyes that these trails spread out and turn into a sunblocking, skycovering, unnatural haze in hours?



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by UrgentInsurgent



The sorts of particulates that are spewed in volcanic eruptions, and then spread in the atmosphere, are very much similar to the ideas and proposals being suggested as a form of man-made geoengineering.
reply to post by weedwhacker
 


What sort of particulates would that be?

And how does this theory of yours negate the fact that lots of people can see with their own eyes that these trails spread out and turn into a sunblocking, skycovering, unnatural haze in hours?




No one doubts that contrails can persist and spread out in the right conditions, thats been noticed since the 1920s though.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Seagle
 


Utter drivel. You know it, too.

The recent volcanic eruptions are the clear evidence (actually, I mean that literally) that "chemmies" and their claims that contrails are "something else" just because they're so visible?

Nonsense.




Umm...OK, and which post of mine is this supposed to be responding too because I have no idea? Seems to me there is a glitch in the debunker mainframe today because its spitting out random replies of madness.

"'Utter drivel. You know it, too."

Gee thanks for ruining my weekend, now I am going to have an Alanis Morrisette song stuck in my head for the rest of the day....."and isn't it ironic, don't ya think? a little too ironic, yeah I really do think........"



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by Seagle
 


Jeah, the guy sounds like a program, like a bot lately.

It seems he´s getting desperate in his ramblings.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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No one doubts that contrails can persist and spread out in the right conditions, thats been noticed since the 1920s though.
reply to post by firepilot
 


Could you provide photographic evidence of your claim?



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by UrgentInsurgent
 


Why do you require photographic evidence? Besides, can you provide photographic evidence of it happening last year? By which I mean a sequence of photos over several hours from the same spot, date verifiable.

On the other hand, why do you think Appleman produced his infamous chart for predicting persistent contrails in the 1950s unless persistent contrails were occurring?

Why do you think scientists were studing the phenomena, its causes and consequences, in the 1960s and 70s?

On what qualification do you think that what you see are not normal contrails? Which surely is the pertinent question?

edit on 20-3-2011 by Essan because: typos



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by UrgentInsurgent



The sorts of particulates that are spewed in volcanic eruptions, and then spread in the atmosphere, are very much similar to the ideas and proposals being suggested as a form of man-made geoengineering.
reply to post by weedwhacker
 


What sort of particulates would that be?



Suphates in particular. Though as I'm sure even you're aware, volcanic eruptions produce more than just water vapour, and big enough eruptions throw material into the stratosphere. You must surely also be aware of the consequences of the Pinatubo eruption? Which led to the (IMO) crazy suggestion that spraying sulphate particles into the stratosphere might counter global warming - leading in turn to even crazier suggestion that aircraft we see today flying in the troposphere are involved in geoengineering.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by Essan
 


You are asking me a lot of questions for someone I wasn´t talking to. Can´t Weedwacker and Firepilot respond for themselves, or has the shift just changed?



Why do you require photographic evidence?


Because the stuff he is talking about, is not the stuff I´m talking about, and what others are seeing too. Besides, I never saw any convincing evidence of persistant contrails in the past.



On what qualification do you think that what you see are not normal contrails? Which surely is the pertinent question?


The fact that they turn into a gray haze and cover a big part of the sky, where the sun is, within a couple hours, when the day was actually a sunny day.

Now for your collegue WW.



The sorts of particulates that are spewed in volcanic eruptions, and then spread in the atmosphere, are very much similar to the ideas and proposals being suggested as a form of man-made geoengineering. And, guess what? Invisible. For the most part, the dispersed regions of airborne particulates cannot be seen. Exception is during times of low Sun angles, such as sunrise and sunset, because of the sheer many, many more miles/kilometers of atmosphere they are being viewed through, and thus the concentrations are "thicker", at the oblique angles.


Jeah, so? How does this prove that they aren´t spraying something? I never heard anybody say they were spraying sulfates.

It´s just pathetic to see, the urgence and the dedication of a select few towards ``debunking`` chemtrail threads. I´ve been here for years, it´s always you, WW, firepilot and some other characters.

It´s not natural.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by UrgentInsurgent
I never saw any convincing evidence of persistant contrails in the past.


In the same way you've never seen any convincing evidence the Giza pyramids existed before 1800


As I said, why do you think people were describing and studying them if they did not exist?

Simpe question





On what qualification do you think that what you see are not normal contrails? Which surely is the pertinent question?


The fact that they turn into a gray haze and cover a big part of the sky, where the sun is, within a couple hours, when the day was actually a sunny day.


As contrails do, and have been observed doing for decades - hence the research mentioned above - we want to know what effect this has on weather and climate. We're still not sure, though the indications are it adds to global warming. We're also trying to find ways to prevent it. Because everyone agrees it's not good! But if you ever fly anywhere, you're culpable.

I don't fly.

100 years ago there were no contrails.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 02:56 PM
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In the same way you've never seen any convincing evidence the Giza pyramids existed before 1800 As I said, why do you think people were describing and studying them if they did not exist? Simpe question
reply to post by Essan
 


The Giza pyramids are testaments of their age themselves. The marks of time make it very obvious that they are older than 200 years.

I´m not playing along with answering your questions, since they are meant to sidestep the issue that there is no real proof for persistant contrails. Where are all the old pics? There have to be pics.



As contrails do, and have been observed doing for decades


What these trails are doing is not normal, and not observed for decades. You talk about contrails turning into white fluffy clouds, I´m talking all out gray hazing, not the same.

You know just as well as I do.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 03:03 AM
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reply to post by UrgentInsurgent
 


No, I'm taking about contrails spreading out into sheets of hazy cirrus or cirrostratus, covering the sky. Same as these guys. Note the first link also includes photos

Airborne Observations of Contrail Effects on the Thermal Radiation Budget - Peter M. Kuhn, 1970

Measurements of the Growth of the Ice Budget in a Persisting Contrail - R. G. Knollenberg, 1972



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:22 AM
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I wanted to share these two links with everyone. The first one is to the ATS Live podcast on Sat. March 12, 2011 on chemtrails. The show featured Dr.Lenny Thyme and the producer of "What in the World are they spraying" Michael J Murphy. The chemtrail segment begins in the second hour of the show at approximately 1:01:00..

media.abovetopsecret.com...

The second link is to a that was made with Dr Lenny Thyme before the show.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Both the podcast and the later thread have a slight bit of controversy surrounding their abrupt ending. During the podcast at about 1:38:00 Michael J Murphy gets intentionally disconnected from the show by it's host. The following thread with Dr.Thyme was closed to more comments for unknown reasons.
edit on 21-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: edit text



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 



... Michael J Murphy gets intentionally disconnected from the show by it's host.


AND for very good reason.

Micheal J. Murphy is rude and obnoxious ... and a liar. (Everyone who listens will immediately hear it).

What a "perfect" spokesman for "your" cause!!



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 





Micheal J. Murphy is rude and obnoxious ... and a liar. (Everyone who listens will immediately hear it). What a "perfect" spokesman for "your" cause!!


They should kick you off this site then.

I think your previous post is everything you accuse that guy of.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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No, I'm taking about contrails spreading out into sheets of hazy cirrus or cirrostratus, covering the sky. Same as these guys. Note the first link also includes photos
reply to post by Essan
 


The photos, lol. The old black and white pics hardly show anything, the only somewhat clear one is a pic of a contrail, from the pic, one can´t see if it´s persistant.

In any case, they don´t show what I´m talking about.

I have to say that cirrostratus clouds, do somewhat resemble my sightings. Do you agree that planes are causing these cirrostratus clouds to mess up perfectly clear, sunny days?

And that from 1970 till now, those 2 old pieces of research is the best one can find, relating the two?

Chemtrails, or not, the fact still remains that air travel is definately affecting the climate, or general weather.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by UrgentInsurgent
reply to post by weedwhacker
 





Micheal J. Murphy is rude and obnoxious ... and a liar. (Everyone who listens will immediately hear it). What a "perfect" spokesman for "your" cause!!


They should kick you off this site then.

I think your previous post is everything you accuse that guy of.


Instead of implying that Weedwhacker is a liar, how about make specific arguments, rather than ad hominem name calling that does not further anything.

Michael Murphy does peddle junk science and misinformation, in order to promote the chemtrail religion. And it can be pointed out exactly too what he is saying that is incorrect. And he has made efforts to not let people into his little movie screenings, who disagree with the premise and would ask tough questions.

Feel free to ask him what an average level of Al in the ground would be, and see if he ever gets back to you with the right answer. I bet he wont.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by UrgentInsurgent


Because the stuff he is talking about, is not the stuff I´m talking about, and what others are seeing too. Besides, I never saw any convincing evidence of persistant contrails in the past.




So did you have the same standard of evidence from the chemtrail sites you went to, about wanting convincing evidence? Or did you just read it and believe it all until its debunked.

If you really feel that airplane are such a threat, when when will some of you start having protests at airports, or asking congress to ban airlines and make airplanes illegal.

The irony however is that for some of you, the only reason you care about it is because you can see the contrails, but other kinds of pollution you cant see, you do not care as much about. Pollution from cars, industry and power plants impacts the earth much more than aircraft generated cirrus.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by UrgentInsurgent

I have to say that cirrostratus clouds, do somewhat resemble my sightings. Do you agree that planes are causing these cirrostratus clouds to mess up perfectly clear, sunny days?


Yes. That's what those papers from 40 years ago say, that's what scientists were studying 40 years ago. That's what we see happen today - only much more so due to the massive increase in air traffic since then. And yes, I believe to some extent it is affecting weather and climate.

There are of course hundreds of papers on the subjects that have been published in the intervening years - I posted those 2 up to show that this phenomena is nothing new.

Probably the best known more recent study was that carried out by Minnis etal after 9/11. Though new papers are published every year. My personal experience is that even when skies appear clear, there is still a distinct high level haze on the horizon (about pollution levels) which is down to aircraft - this became apparent after it disappeared last year when all air flights were cancelled by the Icelandic volcano eruption.

btw I haven't been in an aircraft since 1981 - though I do send parcels by air mail occasionally, and I probably (unknowingly) buy goods imported by air. So I am still in some way culpable.


edit on 21-3-2011 by Essan because: typos



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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Instead of implying that Weedwhacker is a liar, how about make specific arguments, rather than ad hominem name calling that does not further anything.
reply to post by firepilot
 


I already adressed his post. I didn´t call him names. the words that offended you were said by WW himself.

I also wasn´t talking about Michael Murphy, nor aluminium.



So did you have the same standard of evidence from the chemtrail sites you went to, about wanting convincing evidence? Or did you just read it and believe it all until its debunked.


I don´t specifically go to chemtrail sites. It´s what I see with my own eyes. Like deliberate attempts to haze up the sky.

I don´t care if´s chemtrails or not, it´s not ´´normal´´.



If you really feel that airplane are such a threat, when when will some of you start having protests at airports, or asking congress to ban airlines and make airplanes illegal.


It becomes a potential threat if non civilian planes are making an orchestrated effort to make clouds, without telling us.



The irony however is that for some of you, the only reason you care about it is because you can see the contrails, but other kinds of pollution you cant see, you do not care as much about. Pollution from cars, industry and power plants impacts the earth much more than aircraft generated cirrus.


Do you know some of these people personally? I think the reason that people care about this, is because they care about a lot of things that are wrong with this world.



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