Will todays kids ever know a Natural Blue Sky? (Chemtrails)

reply to post by Argyll


the difference is so apparent that it can't be normal contrail's another thing I would like to point out is that some have said that it may depend on weather conditions so why are these trails seen on sunny day's all across America Europe UK are you telling me that the weather air temp air pressure is exactly the same no matter where you are on the globe please.
It also dose not help the anti chemtrail's crowd when there are normal planes with normal contrails going across the sky at the same time which really shows up the difference between the 2 trails and I know some may say that different heights etc may give different contrails please I had someone tell me that the 30,000 feet would leave a long lasting contrails and I can see that is not the case.
Add to that the planes that are spraying don't follow a strait route you can often see them changing direction something that I never saw last summer. On the vid I took the planes spraying where below the cloud line which says to me that they where flying at alot lower height than commercial jet's fly at.
which ever way I look at it this is not normal plane behaviour,it's not normal trail's they are leaving.

reply to post by djcarlosa


The upper air temps and humidity don't have to be exactly the same in all areas that contrails linger.......they just have to be above/below certain levels.

Contrail, streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud. vapour trail. (2007). In Encyclopædia Britannica.Retrieved May 4, 2007,from Encyclopædia Britannica Online:

reply to post by Argyll


So again I ask you is it the right conditions all across the globe every sunny day for these trails to form ?

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Argyll

 

So again I ask you is it the right conditions all across the globe every sunny day for these trails to form ?

No. Which is why these trails don't form every sunny day! Haven't you been reading anything we've written?

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Travlla

 

thank you for proving my point that your not getting chemtrail's over there I'm sure you still have planes going over head with contrails that dissipate within 2 min's or so which are normal take a look at my vid and see if you can tell the difference
www.youtube.com...

Dude i have never seen anything like that in the sky here,i don't get many jets flying over as i don't live on flight path,manly Cessna's and choppers flying fairly low,we don't have the air traffic the US or UK has either,

Ok just clear one point up for me here before I carry on you all agree that what I am seeing from the ground is normal contrails left because of weather conditions formed by the exhaust made by the jet engines on normal commercial planes is that right?

reply to post by Essan


Yeah I can talk all day about how I think bigfoot or niburu is real and it won't appear in the hoax forum, but someone mentions chemtrails and IMMEDIATELY it goes to Skunkworks, then most likely to Hoax! How is that? Some of you may have good air quality, good for you. We did as well, up until 2005!
I didn't get this idea of chemtrails from sucker websites, I saw it happening here from DAY ONE! The FACT of the matter is that WE have bad air quality(particulates) and EPA does not acknowledge that reality. If you want to believe the government, that everything is great where everyone lives, fine, but just stay away from us that want to look the POSSIBILITY of something else! Otherwise you are hampering the discussion. Be part of the problem or part of the solution! I thought ATS was about discussion.
Contrails can persist, so can fog. That doesn't negate the possibility that something could be added to the upper air clouds, now does it? If it cannot be discounted by No Possibility, then it can happen. So, why bother saying it cannot happen? You are Closed minded-we get it. No amount of your saying "they wouldn't do that to their own families", "commercial airliners don't have that capability", "they're all harmless contrails, stupid", blah, blah, blah... ad infinitum, will close our discussion down. The Tusgeegee syphilus experiment didn't happen either... Just go away if you don't care to discuss objectively.

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by Essan

 

Yeah I can talk all day about how I think bigfoot or niburu is real and it won't appear in the hoax forum, but someone mentions chemtrails and IMMEDIATELY it goes to Skunkworks, then most likely to Hoax! How is that? Some of you may have good air quality, good for you. We did as well, up until 2005!
I didn't get this idea of chemtrails from sucker websites, I saw it happening here from DAY ONE! The FACT of the matter is that WE have bad air quality(particulates) and EPA does not acknowledge that reality. If you want to believe the government, that everything is great where everyone lives, fine, but just stay away from us that want to look the POSSIBILITY of something else! Otherwise you are hampering the discussion. Be part of the problem or part of the solution! I thought ATS was about discussion.
Contrails can persist, so can fog. That doesn't negate the possibility that something could be added to the upper air clouds, now does it? If it cannot be discounted by No Possibility, then it can happen. So, why bother saying it cannot happen? You are Closed minded-we get it. No amount of your saying "they wouldn't do that to their own families", "commercial airliners don't have that capability", "they're all harmless contrails, stupid", blah, blah, blah... ad infinitum, will close our discussion down. The Tusgeegee syphilus experiment didn't happen either...

Just go away if you don't care to discuss objectively.

EPA does not care? Ever heard of the Clean Air Act? Wonder why cars have catalytic converters? Or why expensive scrubbers are needed in power plants?
www.epa.gov...

Air quality has gotten better in the last 40 years, not worse. And your message is nothing but speculation, "what if", and "I know what I see". Speculation or if you think something is possible, is not evidence that it is. Is possible I could put elephants in my yard, but thats not evidence that I do have elephants. Speculating something exists, is not evidence it does exist

You certainly admit that you do check chemtrail sites and chemtrail movies. But, you did not watch them with a critical eye or have any skepticism towards them however. And you did seem to be a sucker for them too, mentioning it, but never have bothered to check their claims before you fell for their junk science.

Instead of dealing in your fears, emotions, imagination and endless speculation spawned by conspiracy, why not learn actual information, facts and science. You do not have to be a scientist to learn about science, any more than you have to be a mathematician to balance your checkbook.

There are plenty of internet resources to learn about aviation, meteorology, and with specifics in regards to airplanes, clouds, weather conditions aloft.

reply to post by firepilot


would you please answer the question I posted above so that I can get that fact strait.

10 pages and still no proof other than hoax websites that use other hoax sites to back up their hoax. Sorry we only deal in facts here. As stated in another thread " Nutters"

Originally posted by djcarlosa
Ok just clear one point up for me here before I carry on you all agree that what I am seeing from the ground is normal contrails left because of weather conditions formed by the exhaust made by the jet engines on normal commercial planes is that right?

Correct

Edit: and to avoid this being a one liner (one worder even!) I might add that the majority of the photos in my ATS contrail photo gallery (see link in Sig) show the same contrails you would have been able to see

Originally posted by djcarlosa
Ok just clear one point up for me here before I carry on you all agree that what I am seeing from the ground is normal contrails left because of weather conditions formed by the exhaust made by the jet engines on normal commercial planes is that right?

Yes, when you see trails left by aircraft, that is usually the result of what that has condensed from the exhaust, into the extremely cool air and in the right conditions, it can turn to ice crystals and persist.

The air temperature, humidity, and air density, vary with the altitude, and can result in aircraft at one altitude having little to no trail, and ones at a different altitude having a much bigger trail.

And at times, you can get contrailing coming from the wings itself too, as you will get air cooling from going over the top of the wing.

I can organize my thoughts and logically state it, without having to link to conspiracy sites and youtube videos. Thats not something you have been terribly good at, and linking to silly youtube videos is not how you state your case and convince people to have faith in the chemtrail religion

reply to post by firepilot


Ok so it would be right to say that a 2 jet engine plane makes 2 that become one as the plane passes overhead and a 4 jet engine would have 4 that go to 2 then to one as the plane fly's over is that also right ?

Its funny how a site filled with paid advertisements can label others claims to be hoaxes.

second

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by firepilot

 

Ok so it would be right to say that a 2 jet engine plane makes 2 that become one as the plane passes overhead and a 4 jet engine would have 4 that go to 2 then to one as the plane fly's over is that also right ?

Usually, yes, although this may not always be apparent from the ground, the trail may sometime not become visible until a short distance behind the plane and there may additionally be wingtip vortices form, just to confuse things.

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by firepilot

 

Ok so it would be right to say that a 2 jet engine plane makes 2 that become one as the plane passes overhead and a 4 jet engine would have 4 that go to 2 then to one as the plane fly's over is that also right ?

Not neccesarily. It can depend on different factors, such as how big the engines are, and how far apart they are too. Something like a 777 that is a big widebody airliner with two big engines set far apart, is likely to have two distinct contrails. Something like an MD-80 (2 engine) or 727 (3 engines) with the engines in the rear and close together, may just look like one. Or an F-15 with two engines right next to each other, may just look like one trail.

Also, a B-52 with 8 engines, is not likely to leave 8 distinct contrails, since the engines are in pods of two.

And even something like a 747 with 4 big jet engines, 2 per wing, the contrails from each side can just run together and not leave 4 distinctive trails.

If you question any of this, feel free to look it up and research it all yourself, you can find photos of any of these aircraft types, and airliners.net has thousands of contrail photos with the aircraft in view

reply to post by Essan


Ok now as many of you have stated that I don't know the difference between chem trail's and con trail's so I took your advice and searched U-tube under the heading contrails and watched a no of jets leaving contrails and it showed what I said 2 jet engines making 2 contrails 4 leave 4 contrails now while I was looking at these vids and I came across one that didn't fit this profile at all.
Now unfortuntly I don't have the funds to fly up and take film's of these panes in the air so I have to rely on other people who can and have taken the time to upload them I would like you to take a look and explain to me how a 2 jet engine plane can create this many contrails.
Now I do not believe this vid is a fake and its my hope that you like me will view it with an open mind.
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by djcarlosa


Unfortunately my computer at work doesn't like videos (it's very, very, old....!) so I'll have to wait until I get home to take a look

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Essan

 

Ok now as many of you have stated that I don't know the difference between chem trail's and con trail's so I took your advice and searched U-tube under the heading contrails and watched a no of jets leaving contrails and it showed what I said 2 jet engines making 2 contrails 4 leave 4 contrails now while I was looking at these vids and I came across one that didn't fit this profile at all.
Now unfortuntly I don't have the funds to fly up and take film's of these panes in the air so I have to rely on other people who can and have taken the time to upload them I would like you to take a look and explain to me how a 2 jet engine plane can create this many contrails.
Now I do not believe this vid is a fake and its my hope that you like me will view it with an open mind.
www.youtube.com...

edit on 15-3-2011 by djcarlosa because: added link

Yes, we know all about this video, and it was an ATS member who filmed it. He is a Flight Engineer on KC-10s, and unfortunately the people at "Tanker Enemy" are deliberately trying to mislead you. The guy making the video was doing it as a bit of a prank though, and it went viral among the chemmies. You are not seeing spraying, you are seeing them flying through intermittent cirrus clouds, and you can even see condensation over the top of the wing at times

How can I prove "Tanker Enemy" is trying to deceive people? Go to :15 seconds into it, and see where they label spray nozzles? Those are not nozzles, those are the fairings for the flap hinges.

Look at this photo
www.globalsecurity.org...

There are other videos where those people deliberately misidentify aircraft types, and claim that landing gear pods are spray pods.

reply to post by firepilot

so quick to blow this vid out of the water I take it what's being said is a lie as well maybe maybe not but I do have to say that the plane you sent me a pic of dose not look like the plane in the vid also I would like to point out the lack of markings on the plane and the lack of army/air force colours.
Also I would like to say that the stop start of the contrails is rather strange as well but I'm just a layman.